On March 17 2011 01:27 croupier wrote: Honestly, I gotta say I didn't really like the PAX podcast. I'm a fan of the show and listen to every episode - including the PAX one - but I just really didn't like the format. There seemed to be a lot more "fluff" time interacting with the crowd and generally pandering to pleasing the crowd. I'm sure it made for a better event for those attending live, but for us listeners of the podcast it wasn't so entertaining. Also, i didn't really remember hearing any discussion on strategy/GSL reactions/game analysis.
Just wanted to give my feedback on that episode.
Yep, gotta agree. I think whenever you're in front of a crowd of your fans, you gotta constantly remind them how great and important they are. That's not very conducive to some brass tacks SC2 discussion.
mvp had ebay, alicia didn't have forge. mvp had raven on the way, alicia didn't have robo. argument fail.
it's part of what makes dt's worse. terrans generally have an easier time dealing with dt's when they aren't expecting them than protoss deals with banshees when they aren't expecting them, and terran generally has an easier time dealing with non-dt builds when doing anti-dt builds than protoss has dealing with non-banshee builds when doing anti-banshee builds. it's like part of what makes an scv better at scouting than a probe is the fact that terran can get a marine out much faster and more easily than a protoss can get a stalker out. of course then you probably can't make sense of that until you flip the perspective and say "which race is better at clearing the initial enemy scout?" but that perspective doesnt add validity, just understandability! the context of the matchup is true from either perspective.
MVp had turrets, and a raven on the way, and still lost 10+ scvs and lots of mining time. Alicia could have added a robo fac. and won the game, but he played way to risky. Banshees are rarely used in tvp as they are too costly for their use if the protoss just do a safe build. However Dts are so strong mid/late game its insane.
I'll admit, I didn't watch the game you're talking about, but isn't 175 gas on an observer and 350 gas teching to DTs an awful lot of resources to be spending on non-army-related things? If an early observer delays the DTs, won't the DTs come out after most MM builds make their timing push?
Loved the PAX episode, little less serious but great to listen to nonetheless. Just wanna mention Day[9] said when he returns to playing tournaments, not if he returns. Day9 vs Artosis round 1 NASL GOGOGO! :D
On March 17 2011 01:27 croupier wrote: Honestly, I gotta say I didn't really like the PAX podcast. I'm a fan of the show and listen to every episode - including the PAX one - but I just really didn't like the format. There seemed to be a lot more "fluff" time interacting with the crowd and generally pandering to pleasing the crowd. I'm sure it made for a better event for those attending live, but for us listeners of the podcast it wasn't so entertaining. Also, i didn't really remember hearing any discussion on strategy/GSL reactions/game analysis.
Just wanted to give my feedback on that episode.
I agree with you. It was too much interaction with the crowd, which could've been good if there had been some sort of screening of the questions. This time there were too many bad questions, and too many "What can I do for E-Sports"-questions. Also, most of the questions had been answered, either in earlier SotG's or in WoC/Lo3/etc. The show the way I enjoy it is more relaxed and not as "panel"-ish as this episode was. And what I mean by relaxed isn't just the joking, but also with some deep strategy discussions or player performance discussions. This time it just had too much "fluff" as you said.
On March 17 2011 01:43 TealLurker wrote: I can't believe that people are criticizing the PAX SotG. I enjoyed the podcast. They finally have a chance to interact with their fans directly and let them ask questions and they're being criticized for it. Apparently to some "it's not SotG enough". Whatever the hell that means. I don't remember SotG having to meet a certain criteria when it comes to strategy/tournament discussion/game analysis on a weekly basis.
Apart from the ridiculous pointing discussion there have been very few(too few) who criticized this week's episode.
I found some parts of this week's show enjoyable, even though I disliked most of it. Most of the other episodes have been top notch, and it seems alot of people enjoyed this week. All I will do is not re-listen to it.
mvp had ebay, alicia didn't have forge. mvp had raven on the way, alicia didn't have robo. argument fail.
it's part of what makes dt's worse. terrans generally have an easier time dealing with dt's when they aren't expecting them than protoss deals with banshees when they aren't expecting them, and terran generally has an easier time dealing with non-dt builds when doing anti-dt builds than protoss has dealing with non-banshee builds when doing anti-banshee builds. it's like part of what makes an scv better at scouting than a probe is the fact that terran can get a marine out much faster and more easily than a protoss can get a stalker out. of course then you probably can't make sense of that until you flip the perspective and say "which race is better at clearing the initial enemy scout?" but that perspective doesnt add validity, just understandability! the context of the matchup is true from either perspective.
MVp had turrets, and a raven on the way, and still lost 10+ scvs and lots of mining time. Alicia could have added a robo fac. and won the game, but he played way to risky. Banshees are rarely used in tvp as they are too costly for their use if the protoss just do a safe build. However Dts are so strong mid/late game its insane.
I'll admit, I didn't watch the game you're talking about, but isn't 175 gas on an observer and 350 gas teching to DTs an awful lot of resources to be spending on non-army-related things? If an early observer delays the DTs, won't the DTs come out after most MM builds make their timing push?
Problem is that unless you open op banshees (which is not that good most of the time), you will have to either build a second starport with a tech lab, research cloack, and build a banshee if you dont want to stop medivac or viking production. This is often not worth it, while protoss players often in midgame have a twilight council and lots of gateways. Hence they "only" have to build the dark srhine, making it more attratctive in the mid/late game to get Dts than banshees for terran.
Is this the right place to suggest someone for SOTG guest?
I'd love to hear Grubby on SOTG. - active streaming, great play (3-4 places at once, awesome blinkage etc) - likely going to play in nasl - icon of war3 - outspoken person, fluent english.
So I must not have been the only person that e-mailed Kingston lol. They thanked me for attending PAX East, even though I didn't mention PAX at all in my e-mail. I thanked them for supporting the StarCraft 2 scene and told them the SC2 community was thankful for them.
On March 17 2011 09:35 Demosthen3s wrote: - likely going to play in nasl
Don't get your hopes up too much...
On March 05 2011 04:05 Xeris wrote: this is why our first criteria is results when we are going to select the players for the league.
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
As far as I know, he's only participated in Assembly so far, going out in group stage.
And actually I think we'd be much better off waiting until he gets some results before he's on SOTG. I'm sure he's going to get results soon. I think he may have missed the boat for NASL but there are so many things coming up. And I agree he's showing significant and fast improvements on his stream. Just be patient imo! I think he'll eventually make an excellent guest if the times work out.
I really liked the PAX episode, it was different as I liked the Q&A/fan interaction. Any chance we can get both Artosis+Tasteless on the Sotg with Day9?
mvp had ebay, alicia didn't have forge. mvp had raven on the way, alicia didn't have robo. argument fail.
it's part of what makes dt's worse. terrans generally have an easier time dealing with dt's when they aren't expecting them than protoss deals with banshees when they aren't expecting them, and terran generally has an easier time dealing with non-dt builds when doing anti-dt builds than protoss has dealing with non-banshee builds when doing anti-banshee builds. it's like part of what makes an scv better at scouting than a probe is the fact that terran can get a marine out much faster and more easily than a protoss can get a stalker out. of course then you probably can't make sense of that until you flip the perspective and say "which race is better at clearing the initial enemy scout?" but that perspective doesnt add validity, just understandability! the context of the matchup is true from either perspective.
Problem is that if you open anything but 1-1-1. Dt's give you incredible amount of map control and you can get a safe fast expo up(or kill your opponent if he doesn't have turrets). You need both turrets and a raven to stop Dt's. A factory is also a requirement for a starport. So getting a raven takes extreme amounts of time. If you get like 3 rax before a factory, you will have a raven at minute 10/11. That's 5 minutes where the protoss has complete map control Whilst on the other hand, you can get a robo straight away. And the robo is on the normal protoss tech path anyway. With the current meta game I think Dt's are stronger then banshee's (AS AN OPENING). Banshee's are better later in the game imo. until terrans start opening 1-1-1 again against protoss.
mvp had ebay, alicia didn't have forge. mvp had raven on the way, alicia didn't have robo. argument fail.
it's part of what makes dt's worse. terrans generally have an easier time dealing with dt's when they aren't expecting them than protoss deals with banshees when they aren't expecting them, and terran generally has an easier time dealing with non-dt builds when doing anti-dt builds than protoss has dealing with non-banshee builds when doing anti-banshee builds. it's like part of what makes an scv better at scouting than a probe is the fact that terran can get a marine out much faster and more easily than a protoss can get a stalker out. of course then you probably can't make sense of that until you flip the perspective and say "which race is better at clearing the initial enemy scout?" but that perspective doesnt add validity, just understandability! the context of the matchup is true from either perspective.
Problem is that if you open anything but 1-1-1. Dt's give you incredible amount of map control and you can get a safe fast expo up(or kill your opponent if he doesn't have turrets). You need both turrets and a raven to stop Dt's. (A protoss just needs multiple observers+warp gate tech) A factory is also a requirement for a starport. So getting a raven takes extreme amounts of time. If you get like 3 rax before a factory, you will have a raven at minute 10/11. That's 5 minutes where the protoss has complete map control Whilst on the other hand, you can get a robo straight away. And the robo is on the normal protoss tech path anyway. With the current meta game I think Dt's are stronger then banshee's (AS AN OPENING). Banshee's are better later in the game imo. until terrans start opening 1-1-1 again against protoss.
mvp had ebay, alicia didn't have forge. mvp had raven on the way, alicia didn't have robo. argument fail.
it's part of what makes dt's worse. terrans generally have an easier time dealing with dt's when they aren't expecting them than protoss deals with banshees when they aren't expecting them, and terran generally has an easier time dealing with non-dt builds when doing anti-dt builds than protoss has dealing with non-banshee builds when doing anti-banshee builds. it's like part of what makes an scv better at scouting than a probe is the fact that terran can get a marine out much faster and more easily than a protoss can get a stalker out. of course then you probably can't make sense of that until you flip the perspective and say "which race is better at clearing the initial enemy scout?" but that perspective doesnt add validity, just understandability! the context of the matchup is true from either perspective.
Woah... this just blew my mind Tyler. Basically what you're saying is that because dt's are easier to deal with than banshees, and because anti-dt builds are better than anti-banshee builds, the banshee is way better?
Dude... if Starcraft 2 goes out of favour... you should totally do that law school thing or go into politics. I would try to become an American citizen and move to Texas just to vote for you.
Can't find an argument anymore in favour of T-Pain anymore >_<
On the topic of the PAX cast, I'm not sure I was the biggest fan only because of what a lot of things said earlier. Here's an itemized list if you care to read it JP.
1) Many of the questions asked were already spoken to in earlier casts (i.e. How did you guys choose your names? I believe the answer to that question is in Episode 22 of the cast. It was accompanied by Tyler speaking of Beef and much giggling as they typed stuff in the chat.) To be fair - Husky and Wheat had not yet answered that question on State of the game so in that sense I guess it was... ok.
2) A lot of the "questions" weren't questions at all but people just trying to express their opinions on the panel. In the end, I listen to SotG because I care about the opinions and comments of inControl, Tyler, and Day9, with the occasional guest. They've proven why their opinion matters. Random person at PAX has not.
3) State of the Game has always thrived on discussion about current events, strategy developments, and fluff. It's been that perfect balance of all three - and the casts that I've liked the least have been the ones that don't strike that balance between those three topics... and unfortunately the panel was almost completely just fluff.
If people are still talking about DTs vs Banshees, pretty much every Protoss build that isn't a gay little 4 gate or proxy gate is going to have a relatively quick Robo just because you have to be absolutely stupid OR really want to win the game fast to not want to get one for the awesome units it cranks out.
The only thing Terran will always have for detection is turrets and scans because if Terran doesn't get those he is equally as stupid, (quick Ravens only factor into the 1/1/1 opening which has drastically not been used as much probably due to a lack of potency). However, scans and turrets are WAY weaker countering DTs than an observer is countering a banshee. You can literally make the observers follow the banshees around or position them wherever you need them to be and keep them mobile. A turret can be avoided or destroyed really quickly by the DT itself and if sent only one at a time causes Terrans to burn scans (which hopeful;y they were randomly saving?) which causes them to fall behind already as mules only allow Terrans to keep up with Protoss economically because Protoss will always be ahead in probe count because of chrono boost.
DT tech is also legions more difficult to scout than Banshee Tech as if Protoss scout a factory and doesn't assume a starport is around even if proxied then he has to be TERRIBLE. A DT tower can be anywhere on the map with how small the building is and how ritual it is for Protoss to proxy their shit all the time lol and there is no guarantee out of seeing all the other tech structures that toss is going to go DT tech as he may be going blink/charge,HT or simply getting 2:2 upgrades.
Geoffe while I understand his side of the argument against Painuser says he HAS to get a robo just to counter Banshees.......what kind of dumb build are you doing in which you don't get an invisible scout that basically shows you EVERYTHING your opponent is doing AND gives you Collosus and Immortals. The odds of Protoss getting a Robo is pretty well the same odds as a Terran getting an orbital command unless the toss is a 4 gating Chicken McNublet.
I myself wouldn't trade DTs for Banshees as I often don't use either of them a whole lot when I play either race but I think losing games to quick Banshees or quick DTs is something that should have been solved a long friggin time ago and should only really catch you off guard once every 50 ladder games at most.
Can't find an argument anymore in favour of T-Pain anymore >_<
I don't remember what his argument was specifically (much less if I agree with it or not), but it seemed like PainUser was arguing from a mid to late game perspective instead of as an opening.
Anyway, I think we ought to have koreans in, maybe those who aren't in the GSL right now, but in a season or two they can join as well.
I really can't believe there is a discussion over this subject. It is very disgusting to see people wanting to deny the participation of koreans because they are afraid their homeboys won't be able to beat them.
If the NASL is open to everybody, it would be nonsense to not allow koreans in.
EPT
