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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2692

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2690 2691 2692 2693 2694 2731 Next
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
May 17 2013 21:45 GMT
#53821
I would not over think hellbats. Just look at their stats on paper and compare them to other units. Im actually just surprised they have not already been changed I thought in early tvt is was really apparent its not going to fix itself. Its exactly like the hellion blue flame early on so it hurts my head to think how people never saw the striking similarities.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
May 17 2013 21:45 GMT
#53822
Blizzard should invest in some inears or headphones.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
May 17 2013 21:45 GMT
#53823
Reavers and Oracle either/or harass problems. Go Nony
Need shuttle/ warp-prism play harass.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
bduddy
Profile Joined May 2012
United States1326 Posts
May 17 2013 21:47 GMT
#53824
On May 18 2013 06:40 mokumoku wrote:
alright david kim, make the game fun. but first make it balanced.
because its no-one is going to watch "fun" starcraft games if they aren't having fun playing the game.
No. This is COMPLETELY the wrong answer. It is far, FAR easier and more effective to balance a fun game then to try to make a balanced game fun.
>Liquid'Nazgul: Of course you are completely right
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
May 17 2013 21:49 GMT
#53825
On May 18 2013 06:42 flodeskum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 06:33 aZealot wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:29 Exarl25 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:28 a176 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:27 Exarl25 wrote:
I actually really liked his justification for the Colossus. I see the unit in a new light now. Imagine PvT if Colossi couldn't be hit by AA. Would Protoss ever make Stalkers? Wouldn't you just keep making Colossi with Zealots to tank? A core unit of your army being vulnerable to a different kind of attack forces you to diversify your unit composition, to take terrain into account when engaging, and to not just blindly mass Colossi because they can be so effectively countered.


Or they could just not have colossus in the first place?


And have just purely ground vs ground armies? The point of the Colossus is that it forces air and anti-air.


Huh, what's wrong with that?

Moreover, that's not a sufficient justification for the Colossus. In WOL, Protoss air sucked because Corruptors and Vikings had to be better (either through damage or range) than Protoss air. Don't get me wrong, I think the Colossus is a cool unit. But, it needs to be re-imagined. Lower range, siege mode, less damage, different attack etc. There are many options.

While vikings are good I think marines are are far bigger deterrent for protoss air than vikings can ever be.


True, but the range of the Viking (which is needed to counter Colossus range) means that no Protoss air unit can have a comparable range (with the exception of the expensive + slow to build Carrier). If they did, they could take out the Vikings; and Protoss could cut the usually ineffectual Stalker, and build ground armies purely out Colossus/Zealot etc.

The Colossus is an interesting unit, but it's current incarnation leaves a lot more to be desired, I think.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
May 17 2013 21:50 GMT
#53826
Thank god David Kim understands maps in WoL made the game bad.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 21:51:25
May 17 2013 21:50 GMT
#53827
"We want maps to be imbalanced . . . because it's fun" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53828
On May 18 2013 06:49 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 06:42 flodeskum wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:33 aZealot wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:29 Exarl25 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:28 a176 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:27 Exarl25 wrote:
I actually really liked his justification for the Colossus. I see the unit in a new light now. Imagine PvT if Colossi couldn't be hit by AA. Would Protoss ever make Stalkers? Wouldn't you just keep making Colossi with Zealots to tank? A core unit of your army being vulnerable to a different kind of attack forces you to diversify your unit composition, to take terrain into account when engaging, and to not just blindly mass Colossi because they can be so effectively countered.


Or they could just not have colossus in the first place?


And have just purely ground vs ground armies? The point of the Colossus is that it forces air and anti-air.


Huh, what's wrong with that?

Moreover, that's not a sufficient justification for the Colossus. In WOL, Protoss air sucked because Corruptors and Vikings had to be better (either through damage or range) than Protoss air. Don't get me wrong, I think the Colossus is a cool unit. But, it needs to be re-imagined. Lower range, siege mode, less damage, different attack etc. There are many options.

While vikings are good I think marines are are far bigger deterrent for protoss air than vikings can ever be.


True, but the range of the Viking (which is needed to counter Colossus range) means that no Protoss air unit can have a comparable range (with the exception of the expensive + slow to build Carrier). If they did, they could take out the Vikings; and Protoss could cut the usually ineffectual Stalker, and build ground armies purely out Colossus/Zealot etc.

The Colossus is an interesting unit, but it's current incarnation leaves a lot more to be desired, I think.

Tempests?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
XaCez
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden6991 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53829
Do we really need to spend time on a Bunker joke?
People get too easily offended by people getting too easily offended by the word rape.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53830
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


I hope he isn't. Every map in WoL played out the exact same. It was awful.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53831
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


No he says Fun>Balance on maps on ladder. And no one forcing tournaments to use them.
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53832
"The bunker community is worried"
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
Quotidian
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway1937 Posts
May 17 2013 21:52 GMT
#53833
lol.. I kind of like that David Kim didn't get or give a fuck about Geoff's bunker joke
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
May 17 2013 21:52 GMT
#53834
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


People lost their shit last time he said it because they didn't understand exactly what he means. He is 100% correct. The map situation at the end of WoL was a travesty because of the community insistence on only having huge, super safe, easy 3 bases, "balanced" maps that caused the metagame to completely stagnate. Look at the maps Kespa are putting out, they understand what David Kim is trying to say.
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53835
On May 18 2013 06:51 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


I hope he isn't. Every map in WoL played out the exact same. It was awful.


Yes, the tournaments are luckily going to fight to the death to avoid this as they at least understand that "not always being fair" is actually a bad idea.

Actually, even a child understands that playing a game that is not fair is a bad idea.
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
geno
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1404 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53836
On May 18 2013 06:43 Psychobabas wrote:
Here's a crazy idea.

Terrans make turrets vs mutalisks.

Zerg can make spinecrawlers vs hellbats.

Do they? Nope... just amove those lings into dropped hellbats and then cry about it.. ...

The difference there is in the cost. A 10-mutalisk ball can't even get in and do any damage against turrets without losing 1k/1k resources in the process if the defense is adequate. A boosted medivac hellbat drop or two will still kill 10-20+ workers even right on top of 3+ spines if the workers aren't run, might get out because they can be lifted when low hp, and even if they are killed will cost way less resources.

I like hellbat drops and hope they stay in the game. I just don't want them in every game, forcing players to keep armies there or dedicate 1K+ resources in static D per base just to stay alive.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53837
D. Kim just solved the Banshee vs DT discussion.

The man is a god.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53838
haha the worst race thing will be a catchphrase.
zyzq
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3123 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53839
david kim doesn't watch proleague
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53840
Nice dodge by David Kim there..
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
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