• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:04
CEST 02:04
KST 09:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced11Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid20
StarCraft 2
General
2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Data needed ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2486 users

Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2692

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2690 2691 2692 2693 2694 2731 Next
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
May 17 2013 21:45 GMT
#53821
I would not over think hellbats. Just look at their stats on paper and compare them to other units. Im actually just surprised they have not already been changed I thought in early tvt is was really apparent its not going to fix itself. Its exactly like the hellion blue flame early on so it hurts my head to think how people never saw the striking similarities.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
May 17 2013 21:45 GMT
#53822
Blizzard should invest in some inears or headphones.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11490 Posts
May 17 2013 21:45 GMT
#53823
Reavers and Oracle either/or harass problems. Go Nony
Need shuttle/ warp-prism play harass.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mar a Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
bduddy
Profile Joined May 2012
United States1326 Posts
May 17 2013 21:47 GMT
#53824
On May 18 2013 06:40 mokumoku wrote:
alright david kim, make the game fun. but first make it balanced.
because its no-one is going to watch "fun" starcraft games if they aren't having fun playing the game.
No. This is COMPLETELY the wrong answer. It is far, FAR easier and more effective to balance a fun game then to try to make a balanced game fun.
>Liquid'Nazgul: Of course you are completely right
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
May 17 2013 21:49 GMT
#53825
On May 18 2013 06:42 flodeskum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 06:33 aZealot wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:29 Exarl25 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:28 a176 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:27 Exarl25 wrote:
I actually really liked his justification for the Colossus. I see the unit in a new light now. Imagine PvT if Colossi couldn't be hit by AA. Would Protoss ever make Stalkers? Wouldn't you just keep making Colossi with Zealots to tank? A core unit of your army being vulnerable to a different kind of attack forces you to diversify your unit composition, to take terrain into account when engaging, and to not just blindly mass Colossi because they can be so effectively countered.


Or they could just not have colossus in the first place?


And have just purely ground vs ground armies? The point of the Colossus is that it forces air and anti-air.


Huh, what's wrong with that?

Moreover, that's not a sufficient justification for the Colossus. In WOL, Protoss air sucked because Corruptors and Vikings had to be better (either through damage or range) than Protoss air. Don't get me wrong, I think the Colossus is a cool unit. But, it needs to be re-imagined. Lower range, siege mode, less damage, different attack etc. There are many options.

While vikings are good I think marines are are far bigger deterrent for protoss air than vikings can ever be.


True, but the range of the Viking (which is needed to counter Colossus range) means that no Protoss air unit can have a comparable range (with the exception of the expensive + slow to build Carrier). If they did, they could take out the Vikings; and Protoss could cut the usually ineffectual Stalker, and build ground armies purely out Colossus/Zealot etc.

The Colossus is an interesting unit, but it's current incarnation leaves a lot more to be desired, I think.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12029 Posts
May 17 2013 21:50 GMT
#53826
Thank god David Kim understands maps in WoL made the game bad.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-17 21:51:25
May 17 2013 21:50 GMT
#53827
"We want maps to be imbalanced . . . because it's fun" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53828
On May 18 2013 06:49 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 06:42 flodeskum wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:33 aZealot wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:29 Exarl25 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:28 a176 wrote:
On May 18 2013 06:27 Exarl25 wrote:
I actually really liked his justification for the Colossus. I see the unit in a new light now. Imagine PvT if Colossi couldn't be hit by AA. Would Protoss ever make Stalkers? Wouldn't you just keep making Colossi with Zealots to tank? A core unit of your army being vulnerable to a different kind of attack forces you to diversify your unit composition, to take terrain into account when engaging, and to not just blindly mass Colossi because they can be so effectively countered.


Or they could just not have colossus in the first place?


And have just purely ground vs ground armies? The point of the Colossus is that it forces air and anti-air.


Huh, what's wrong with that?

Moreover, that's not a sufficient justification for the Colossus. In WOL, Protoss air sucked because Corruptors and Vikings had to be better (either through damage or range) than Protoss air. Don't get me wrong, I think the Colossus is a cool unit. But, it needs to be re-imagined. Lower range, siege mode, less damage, different attack etc. There are many options.

While vikings are good I think marines are are far bigger deterrent for protoss air than vikings can ever be.


True, but the range of the Viking (which is needed to counter Colossus range) means that no Protoss air unit can have a comparable range (with the exception of the expensive + slow to build Carrier). If they did, they could take out the Vikings; and Protoss could cut the usually ineffectual Stalker, and build ground armies purely out Colossus/Zealot etc.

The Colossus is an interesting unit, but it's current incarnation leaves a lot more to be desired, I think.

Tempests?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
XaCez
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden6991 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53829
Do we really need to spend time on a Bunker joke?
People get too easily offended by people getting too easily offended by the word rape.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12029 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53830
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


I hope he isn't. Every map in WoL played out the exact same. It was awful.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53831
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


No he says Fun>Balance on maps on ladder. And no one forcing tournaments to use them.
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
May 17 2013 21:51 GMT
#53832
"The bunker community is worried"
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
Quotidian
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway1937 Posts
May 17 2013 21:52 GMT
#53833
lol.. I kind of like that David Kim didn't get or give a fuck about Geoff's bunker joke
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
May 17 2013 21:52 GMT
#53834
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


People lost their shit last time he said it because they didn't understand exactly what he means. He is 100% correct. The map situation at the end of WoL was a travesty because of the community insistence on only having huge, super safe, easy 3 bases, "balanced" maps that caused the metagame to completely stagnate. Look at the maps Kespa are putting out, they understand what David Kim is trying to say.
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53835
On May 18 2013 06:51 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 06:50 SCST wrote:
"We want maps to be imbalanced" David Kim 2013... please tell me he's joking


I hope he isn't. Every map in WoL played out the exact same. It was awful.


Yes, the tournaments are luckily going to fight to the death to avoid this as they at least understand that "not always being fair" is actually a bad idea.

Actually, even a child understands that playing a game that is not fair is a bad idea.
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
geno
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1404 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53836
On May 18 2013 06:43 Psychobabas wrote:
Here's a crazy idea.

Terrans make turrets vs mutalisks.

Zerg can make spinecrawlers vs hellbats.

Do they? Nope... just amove those lings into dropped hellbats and then cry about it.. ...

The difference there is in the cost. A 10-mutalisk ball can't even get in and do any damage against turrets without losing 1k/1k resources in the process if the defense is adequate. A boosted medivac hellbat drop or two will still kill 10-20+ workers even right on top of 3+ spines if the workers aren't run, might get out because they can be lifted when low hp, and even if they are killed will cost way less resources.

I like hellbat drops and hope they stay in the game. I just don't want them in every game, forcing players to keep armies there or dedicate 1K+ resources in static D per base just to stay alive.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53837
D. Kim just solved the Banshee vs DT discussion.

The man is a god.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53838
haha the worst race thing will be a catchphrase.
zyzq
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3123 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53839
david kim doesn't watch proleague
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42384 Posts
May 17 2013 21:53 GMT
#53840
Nice dodge by David Kim there..
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Prev 1 2690 2691 2692 2693 2694 2731 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
22:15
Best Games of SC
Rogue vs MaxPax
Maru vs Zoun
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs TBD
PiGStarcraft475
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft475
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 147
firebathero 140
NaDa 21
LancerX 15
Dota 2
monkeys_forever629
Other Games
gofns14576
summit1g12324
tarik_tv8023
FrodaN671
C9.Mang0442
shahzam348
Trikslyr162
ViBE63
Maynarde44
Livibee39
Mew2King38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick643
BasetradeTV281
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta44
• Adnapsc2 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 54
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift3186
Other Games
• imaqtpie972
• Scarra856
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
2h 56m
CranKy Ducklings
9h 56m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
10h 56m
SC Evo League
13h 26m
IPSL
15h 56m
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
18h 56m
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
Patches Events
21h 56m
CranKy Ducklings
23h 56m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 10h
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
1d 14h
BSL
1d 18h
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
1d 18h
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W3
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.