On April 26 2013 06:34 Mauldo wrote: I'm sad that TB didn't hold him to explaining why Blizzard says it's committed to region growth but at the same time allows Koreans to come in and completely rape and pillage the WCS NA scene. Korean pillaging =/= NA scene growth
At least the Blizzard rep is holding strong and coming up with legit-enough answers. If it was just a repeat of the MLG-non-apology I'd have finally committed and switched to DOTA 2.
Holy fucking shit, the Koreans are getting screwed over just as bad. Why the hell is no one speaking up for them? Acting like they are rolling in stolen cash when the vast majority of them are simply slaving away in team houses all day for nothing.
So NA doesn't deserve a scene? We can't grow a scene with teamhouses and economic foundation ourselves if we keep sacrificing our scene to our Koreans overlords.
I swear to god, is there anyone who actually reads what I'm saying rather than jumping to wild fucking conclusions and putting words in my mouth?
1) Calm the fuck down dude.
2) I'm just going to walk you through what you said to me, even though I definitely didn't post a word in your general direction.
2a) I said that NA needs a way to grow its player base. Allowing Koreans to come in and pillage our tourney is not how you do so (TB made the point literally 5 minutes after I posted).
2b) You said, and I quote, "Holy fucking shit, the Koreans are getting screwed over just as bad....Acting like they are rolling in stolen cash..." That implies that you think you deserve to take the money from the NA scene, most specifically WCS NA, because they're awesome and they're SC2 gods and they deserve all of our money.
2c) I respond with "So how are we to make any money?"
2d) You respond with "I never said that!"
Only, you did. I say that they shouldn't be allowed in the WCS NA tourney, and you say they should be because they're awesome and work harder than we do.
And this is what I mean by jumping to wild conclusions and putting words in my mouth. No I never said they should be allowed in WCS NA. No I never said they deserve all of the money. No I never said the NA scene should lose money.
WCS NA can be region locked with a respectable prize pool. Fine. However with the new system Korea now has less tournaments and less money going around than it did last year. Coupled with the flood of Kespa players raising the bar of competition even higher. Korea is getting screwed here but all of the focus is on NA and the proposed solutions would screw Korea over even more.
It's because the NA scene was already bleeding and dying before this, and this "attempt" to save it on behalf of Blizzard was really just a way to attract even more Koreans. You're angry that Korea is fucked hard by WCS KR, thats cool. Everyone acknowledges that. But right now people want to save the NA scene from dying, which it undoubtedly will after no Americans make the Ro16, and best case scenario are relegated to the Challenger league if any league at all.
I don't think you'll find a single person who thinks Korea didn't get fucked.
Here..... Why did Korea get fucked? I dont see it, yes there's less money to win now in Korea but why is that? Where did the GSL money go? Or did Blizzard already pay for that? Why is there not another organisation that steps up in Korea while in NA/EU we have MLG/IEM/DH/NASL etc etc.
I really dont get it why people say Korea gets fucked because of WCS.
This post doesn't make sense... you say you don't know why they are fucked, then state the reason they are fucked, then say again that you don't know the reason. I think you need to explain yourself better. Is it that you think that they deserve to have their money decreased because it was backed by Blizzard rather than venture capital?
As a GSL viewer I've already noticed that the season is padded out, with more time between games than previously. This makes sense as I believe they went from 4 (4 GSL) seasons to 3 seasons (2 GSL 1 OSL). So what if you are someone that didn't make the Code A qualifier? You now have that much more time you have to sit around making no money before you get another chance. You cite the lack of DH/NASL/etc... this is why the decrease in seasons/money is so painful for KR, because unless their team is willing to send them overseas (many aren't) for these events then they sit idle waiting for the next WCS KR/GSL, which are now less frequent.
On April 26 2013 06:34 Mauldo wrote: I'm sad that TB didn't hold him to explaining why Blizzard says it's committed to region growth but at the same time allows Koreans to come in and completely rape and pillage the WCS NA scene. Korean pillaging =/= NA scene growth
At least the Blizzard rep is holding strong and coming up with legit-enough answers. If it was just a repeat of the MLG-non-apology I'd have finally committed and switched to DOTA 2.
Holy fucking shit, the Koreans are getting screwed over just as bad. Why the hell is no one speaking up for them? Acting like they are rolling in stolen cash when the vast majority of them are simply slaving away in team houses all day for nothing.
So NA doesn't deserve a scene? We can't grow a scene with teamhouses and economic foundation ourselves if we keep sacrificing our scene to our Koreans overlords.
I swear to god, is there anyone who actually reads what I'm saying rather than jumping to wild fucking conclusions and putting words in my mouth?
1) Calm the fuck down dude.
2) I'm just going to walk you through what you said to me, even though I definitely didn't post a word in your general direction.
2a) I said that NA needs a way to grow its player base. Allowing Koreans to come in and pillage our tourney is not how you do so (TB made the point literally 5 minutes after I posted).
2b) You said, and I quote, "Holy fucking shit, the Koreans are getting screwed over just as bad....Acting like they are rolling in stolen cash..." That implies that you think you deserve to take the money from the NA scene, most specifically WCS NA, because they're awesome and they're SC2 gods and they deserve all of our money.
2c) I respond with "So how are we to make any money?"
2d) You respond with "I never said that!"
Only, you did. I say that they shouldn't be allowed in the WCS NA tourney, and you say they should be because they're awesome and work harder than we do.
And this is what I mean by jumping to wild conclusions and putting words in my mouth. No I never said they should be allowed in WCS NA. No I never said they deserve all of the money. No I never said the NA scene should lose money.
WCS NA can be region locked with a respectable prize pool. Fine. However with the new system Korea now has less tournaments and less money going around than it did last year. Coupled with the flood of Kespa players raising the bar of competition even higher. Korea is getting screwed here but all of the focus is on NA and the proposed solutions would screw Korea over even more.
It's because the NA scene was already bleeding and dying before this, and this "attempt" to save it on behalf of Blizzard was really just a way to attract even more Koreans. You're angry that Korea is fucked hard by WCS KR, thats cool. Everyone acknowledges that. But right now people want to save the NA scene from dying, which it undoubtedly will after no Americans make the Ro16, and best case scenario are relegated to the Challenger league if any league at all.
I don't think you'll find a single person who thinks Korea didn't get fucked.
Here..... Why did Korea get fucked? I dont see it, yes there's less money to win now in Korea but why is that? Where did the GSL money go? Or did Blizzard already pay for that? Why is there not another organisation that steps up in Korea while in NA/EU we have MLG/IEM/DH/NASL etc etc.
I really dont get it why people say Korea gets fucked because of WCS.
This post doesn't make sense... you say you don't know why they are fucked, then state the reason they are fucked, then say again that you don't know the reason. I think you need to explain yourself better. Is it that you think that they deserve to have their money decreased because it was backed by Blizzard rather than venture capital?
As a GSL viewer I've already noticed that the season is padded out, with more time between games than previously. This makes sense as I believe they went from 4 (4 GSL) seasons to 3 seasons (2 GSL 1 OSL). So what if you are someone that didn't make the Code A qualifier? You now have that much more time you have to sit around making no money before you get another chance. You cite the lack of DH/NASL/etc... this is why the decrease in seasons/money is so painful for KR, because unless their team is willing to send them overseas (many aren't) for these events then they sit idle waiting for the next WCS KR/GSL, which are now less frequent.
There are still four seasons annually. The first season of GSL was played in WOL, apart from WCS. There'll be three seasons of WCS to account for the late start this year, and then four seasons starting in 2014 and going forward; Two GSL and two OSL.
Fun episode, only having four staff working full time on esports for blizzard does not seem like enough. Hopefully the IPL staff will help grow that team.
I just wanted to reiterate something I mentioned on the podcast—there are not just 4 eSports people involved in WCS. The fact of the matter is that there are countless people working on WCS across Blizzard. It’s the eSports team and communications teams, and our counterparts in each of those departments in Europe and Korea, as well as a good chunk of the StarCraft II dev team to name a few (apologies to the people I’m leaving out). On top of that, our top executives are nonstop in the mix on WCS daily.
We’re all collaborating on this, and putting in major hours because we’re 100% committed to the success of the leagues and because StarCraft is a huge part of who we are as a company. And that’s just the Blizzard side—we’re working every day with our partners in each region, who are all equally committed. So in addition to the folks who make up the eSports team, it’s a huge number of people. And we’re already growing that further by integrating the new guys who have recently come on board and are helping us develop the eSports portal I mentioned, among other things.
I just wanted to reiterate something I mentioned on the podcast—there are not just 4 eSports people involved in WCS. The fact of the matter is that there are countless people working on WCS across Blizzard. It’s the eSports team and communications teams, and our counterparts in each of those departments in Europe and Korea, as well as a good chunk of the StarCraft II dev team to name a few (apologies to the people I’m leaving out). On top of that, our top executives are nonstop in the mix on WCS daily.
We’re all collaborating on this, and putting in major hours because we’re 100% committed to the success of the leagues and because StarCraft is a huge part of who we are as a company. And that’s just the Blizzard side—we’re working every day with our partners in each region, who are all equally committed. So in addition to the folks who make up the eSports team, it’s a huge number of people. And we’re already growing that further by integrating the new guys who have recently come on board and are helping us develop the eSports portal I mentioned, among other things.
I just wanted to reiterate something I mentioned on the podcast—there are not just 4 eSports people involved in WCS. The fact of the matter is that there are countless people working on WCS across Blizzard. It’s the eSports team and communications teams, and our counterparts in each of those departments in Europe and Korea, as well as a good chunk of the StarCraft II dev team to name a few (apologies to the people I’m leaving out). On top of that, our top executives are nonstop in the mix on WCS daily.
We’re all collaborating on this, and putting in major hours because we’re 100% committed to the success of the leagues and because StarCraft is a huge part of who we are as a company. And that’s just the Blizzard side—we’re working every day with our partners in each region, who are all equally committed. So in addition to the folks who make up the eSports team, it’s a huge number of people. And we’re already growing that further by integrating the new guys who have recently come on board and are helping us develop the eSports portal I mentioned, among other things.
___________________________________
Cloaken StarCraft II - Blizzard Entertainment
i find i get the most honest answers from a person in the first instance that a question is asked....
seconds... minutes and even hours later ... i know i'll get the politically correct "party line" as opposed to the naked truth.
excuse my skepticism but the events of WCS-NA and the slew of vague apologies and damage control on all fronts have made me adopt a "caveat emptor" style of attitude when it comes to dealing with MLG and the WCS events they are part of.
so far, WCS 2013 looks more like a 4 man job rather than "countless people".
i guess you should've never answered tehe question directly and provided such a definitive answer like "4".
"Countless people" keeps things nice and vague and slippery.
Thank you very much for taking the time to go on SotG and handle so many tough questions from DJWheat, JP, and TotalBiscuit.
I think my biggest takeaway from the episode, aside from the fact that Blizzard cares for grassroots and will seriously look into region lock/offline exclusive tournaments, which I strongly believe in, is that we as fans should always remember that we are FANS. Sure, MLG qualifiers were a mess. Sure, WCS is off to a rocky start, but in the end. Blizzard is trying to make Esports better. Though good intentions are never the only answer and criticism when needed is always a plus, we should remember to always put a ceiling to the amount of criticism/hate.
EVEN if the criticism is true, if we put it in a way that is detrimental to what blizzard is doing and esports as a whole, then we aren't really achieving the effect that we want. Blizzard has a lot of problems and kinks to be sorted out, most of which have been addressed in this episode.
On April 26 2013 06:34 Mauldo wrote: I'm sad that TB didn't hold him to explaining why Blizzard says it's committed to region growth but at the same time allows Koreans to come in and completely rape and pillage the WCS NA scene. Korean pillaging =/= NA scene growth
At least the Blizzard rep is holding strong and coming up with legit-enough answers. If it was just a repeat of the MLG-non-apology I'd have finally committed and switched to DOTA 2.
Holy fucking shit, the Koreans are getting screwed over just as bad. Why the hell is no one speaking up for them? Acting like they are rolling in stolen cash when the vast majority of them are simply slaving away in team houses all day for nothing.
So NA doesn't deserve a scene? We can't grow a scene with teamhouses and economic foundation ourselves if we keep sacrificing our scene to our Koreans overlords.
I swear to god, is there anyone who actually reads what I'm saying rather than jumping to wild fucking conclusions and putting words in my mouth?
I stand corrected on the numbers, but it's still one less compared to last year. I just went to the GOM site to confirm and there were 5 seasons of GSL (not including special events) last year.
1) Calm the fuck down dude.
2) I'm just going to walk you through what you said to me, even though I definitely didn't post a word in your general direction.
2a) I said that NA needs a way to grow its player base. Allowing Koreans to come in and pillage our tourney is not how you do so (TB made the point literally 5 minutes after I posted).
2b) You said, and I quote, "Holy fucking shit, the Koreans are getting screwed over just as bad....Acting like they are rolling in stolen cash..." That implies that you think you deserve to take the money from the NA scene, most specifically WCS NA, because they're awesome and they're SC2 gods and they deserve all of our money.
2c) I respond with "So how are we to make any money?"
2d) You respond with "I never said that!"
Only, you did. I say that they shouldn't be allowed in the WCS NA tourney, and you say they should be because they're awesome and work harder than we do.
And this is what I mean by jumping to wild conclusions and putting words in my mouth. No I never said they should be allowed in WCS NA. No I never said they deserve all of the money. No I never said the NA scene should lose money.
WCS NA can be region locked with a respectable prize pool. Fine. However with the new system Korea now has less tournaments and less money going around than it did last year. Coupled with the flood of Kespa players raising the bar of competition even higher. Korea is getting screwed here but all of the focus is on NA and the proposed solutions would screw Korea over even more.
It's because the NA scene was already bleeding and dying before this, and this "attempt" to save it on behalf of Blizzard was really just a way to attract even more Koreans. You're angry that Korea is fucked hard by WCS KR, thats cool. Everyone acknowledges that. But right now people want to save the NA scene from dying, which it undoubtedly will after no Americans make the Ro16, and best case scenario are relegated to the Challenger league if any league at all.
I don't think you'll find a single person who thinks Korea didn't get fucked.
Here..... Why did Korea get fucked? I dont see it, yes there's less money to win now in Korea but why is that? Where did the GSL money go? Or did Blizzard already pay for that? Why is there not another organisation that steps up in Korea while in NA/EU we have MLG/IEM/DH/NASL etc etc.
I really dont get it why people say Korea gets fucked because of WCS.
This post doesn't make sense... you say you don't know why they are fucked, then state the reason they are fucked, then say again that you don't know the reason. I think you need to explain yourself better. Is it that you think that they deserve to have their money decreased because it was backed by Blizzard rather than venture capital?
As a GSL viewer I've already noticed that the season is padded out, with more time between games than previously. This makes sense as I believe they went from 4 (4 GSL) seasons to 3 seasons (2 GSL 1 OSL). So what if you are someone that didn't make the Code A qualifier? You now have that much more time you have to sit around making no money before you get another chance. You cite the lack of DH/NASL/etc... this is why the decrease in seasons/money is so painful for KR, because unless their team is willing to send them overseas (many aren't) for these events then they sit idle waiting for the next WCS KR/GSL, which are now less frequent.
There are still four seasons annually. The first season of GSL was played in WOL, apart from WCS. There'll be three seasons of WCS to account for the late start this year, and then four seasons starting in 2014 and going forward; Two GSL and two OSL.
I stand corrected on the numbers, but there are still fewer tournaments than last year. According to the GOM site there were 5 seasons of GSL last year (not including special events).
I just wanted to reiterate something I mentioned on the podcast—there are not just 4 eSports people involved in WCS. The fact of the matter is that there are countless people working on WCS across Blizzard. It’s the eSports team and communications teams, and our counterparts in each of those departments in Europe and Korea, as well as a good chunk of the StarCraft II dev team to name a few (apologies to the people I’m leaving out). On top of that, our top executives are nonstop in the mix on WCS daily.
We’re all collaborating on this, and putting in major hours because we’re 100% committed to the success of the leagues and because StarCraft is a huge part of who we are as a company. And that’s just the Blizzard side—we’re working every day with our partners in each region, who are all equally committed. So in addition to the folks who make up the eSports team, it’s a huge number of people. And we’re already growing that further by integrating the new guys who have recently come on board and are helping us develop the eSports portal I mentioned, among other things.
___________________________________
Cloaken StarCraft II - Blizzard Entertainment
i find i get the most honest answers from a person in the first instance that a question is asked....
seconds... minutes and even hours later ... i know i'll get the politically correct "party line" as opposed to the naked truth.
excuse my skepticism but the events of WCS-NA and the slew of vague apologies and damage control on all fronts have made me adopt a "caveat emptor" style of attitude when it comes to dealing with MLG and the WCS events they are part of.
so far, WCS 2013 looks more like a 4 man job rather than "countless people".
i guess you should've never answered tehe question directly and provided such a definitive answer like "4".
"Countless people" keeps things nice and vague and slippery.
Thank you very much for taking the time to go on SotG and handle so many tough questions from DJWheat, JP, and TotalBiscuit.
I was about to respond to this seriously, then I saw it was Jimmy...
I just wanted to reiterate something I mentioned on the podcast—there are not just 4 eSports people involved in WCS. The fact of the matter is that there are countless people working on WCS across Blizzard. It’s the eSports team and communications teams, and our counterparts in each of those departments in Europe and Korea, as well as a good chunk of the StarCraft II dev team to name a few (apologies to the people I’m leaving out). On top of that, our top executives are nonstop in the mix on WCS daily.
We’re all collaborating on this, and putting in major hours because we’re 100% committed to the success of the leagues and because StarCraft is a huge part of who we are as a company. And that’s just the Blizzard side—we’re working every day with our partners in each region, who are all equally committed. So in addition to the folks who make up the eSports team, it’s a huge number of people. And we’re already growing that further by integrating the new guys who have recently come on board and are helping us develop the eSports portal I mentioned, among other things.
___________________________________
Cloaken StarCraft II - Blizzard Entertainment
i find i get the most honest answers from a person in the first instance that a question is asked....
seconds... minutes and even hours later ... i know i'll get the politically correct "party line" as opposed to the naked truth.
excuse my skepticism but the events of WCS-NA and the slew of vague apologies and damage control on all fronts have made me adopt a "caveat emptor" style of attitude when it comes to dealing with MLG and the WCS events they are part of.
so far, WCS 2013 looks more like a 4 man job rather than "countless people".
i guess you should've never answered tehe question directly and provided such a definitive answer like "4".
"Countless people" keeps things nice and vague and slippery.
Thank you very much for taking the time to go on SotG and handle so many tough questions from DJWheat, JP, and TotalBiscuit.
You come off as someone who has 0 real world business experience. I don't think you appreciate or understand the gravity or the massive undertaking that this entire process is. You seem like the type of entitled fan who feels you're owed something from blizzard.
On April 26 2013 12:54 Klipsys wrote: You come off as someone who has 0 real world business experience. I don't think you appreciate or understand the gravity or the massive undertaking that this entire process is. You seem like the type of entitled fan who feels you're owed something from blizzard.
Hint: You're Not.
You know ZERO about my work history. You decided to bring it up ... and so i'll respond.
"0 real world business experience"
Waterloo University.. Co-op Engineering.. upon graduation i had 2 years work experience. worked full time for 1 year at Brauch & Neville... and took their 2 smallest customers with me when i left and B&N was purchased by a multibillion dollar software maker that could care less about anyone spending less than 200K a year. i now run my own software shop making reporting tools and add on tools for medical administration software. chances are.. if you have OHIP you're in a database i've made.
Every time i spend money on a Blizzard game i expect value for my dollar. Just as my customers expect value for the money they spend on me. I live in the real world where I trade value for value via money. Money is a tool of exchange which cannot exist without goods produced and men capable of producing them.
because i work in the real world... REALITY is in the final arbiter. not intentions. not hope. not "agility".
and here is the REALITY. Blizzard knows they fucked up... which is why there have been a flurry of apologies..GameSpot "responses" led by Breslau Twitter damage control episodes on Morhaime's account ... and then an entire SotG damage control episode with Cloaken back-pedaling the entire interview.
i back TotalBiscuit's criticisms 100%
if BLizzard is going to mouth off during a giant PR offensive claiming they are "bigger than the NHL" and then their precious WCS comes off like a garage league... then they better expect criticism. Just as the NHL gets criticized when the players go on strike. If Blizzard thinks the criticisms are too harsh (Cloaken said he was fine with it during SotG)... they should step into Gary Betman's shoes and listen to him get boo-ed out of every Canadian hockey arena.
Stick to stuff you know about. You know ZERO about my work history. Learn to love it.
On April 26 2013 12:54 Klipsys wrote: You come off as someone who has 0 real world business experience. I don't think you appreciate or understand the gravity or the massive undertaking that this entire process is. You seem like the type of entitled fan who feels you're owed something from blizzard.
Hint: You're Not.
You know ZERO about my work history. You decided to bring it up ... and so i'll respond.
Waterloo University.. Co-op Engineering.. upon graduation i had 2 years work experience. worked full time for 1 year at Brauch & Neville... and took their 2 smallest customers with me when i left and B&N was purchased by a multibillion dollar software maker that could care less about anyone spending less than 200K a year. i now run my own software shop making reporting tools and add on tools for medical administration software. chances are.. if you have OHIP you're in a database i've made.
Every time i spend money on a Blizzard game i expect value for my dollar. Just as my customers expect value for the money they spend on me. I live in the real world where I trade value for value via money. Money is a tool of exchange which cannot exist without goods produced and men capable of producing them.
because i work in the real world... REALITY is in the final arbiter. not intentions. not hope. not "agility".
and here is the REALITY. Blizzard knows they fucked up... which is why there have been a flurry of apologies..GameSpot "responses" led by Breslau Twitter damage control episodes on Morhaime's account ... and then an entire SotG damage control episode with Cloaken back-pedaling the entire interview.
i back TotalBiscuit's criticisms 100%
if BLizzard is going to mouth off during a giant PR offensive claiming they are "bigger than the NHL" and then their precious WCS comes off like a garage league... then they better expect criticism. Just as the NHL gets criticized when the players go on strike. If Blizzard thinks the criticisms are too harsh (Cloaken said he was fine with it during SotG)... they should step into Gary Betman's shoes and listen to him get boo-ed out of every Canadian hockey arena.
Stick to stuff you know about. You know ZERO about my work history. Learn to love it.
He is saying that you SOUND like, not you ARE. noone cares about your actual work history, and you do indeed come off as entitled and pretentious
Oh God, it seems like in every talkshow now people are talking about how GameHeart allows hackers to show the production tab.
It is the opposite! GameHeart actually BREAKS the production tab hack so it doesn't work! This is terrible publicity for GameHeart when it should be the opposite!
Obviously this must be my fault because people misunderstood what I wrote on the topic, but it still hurts to have something you have worked so hard on take a hit from something that isn't even true.
EPT
