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On April 12 2013 13:09 hastur420 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:05 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? aren't you guys fucking listening to him at all? he emphasized he is ok with it if they decrease the prize pool hugely. even if top 3 get like 50/20/5k dollars and koreans cant participate Catz would never make enough money via tournament prize and he knows that, what the fuck are you talking about. You're talking about 5k like it's nothing. Are you insane? Are you really suggesting that it's blizzards job to make it easier for less skilled players to make money? no i'm not talking about 5k like it's nothing, oh my god it's so hard to not insult you. think for a fucking second. in my theoretic scenario last post, 3 tournaments per year, rd place gets 5k, and Catz has no realistic change to even make 3rd because there are like 10 better players than him in americas alone, and he knows it yet you go on CATZ WANTS THE MONEY HE IS SO LAME. man are you braindead or what? his problem is that 70% of the AMERICAN top class league will consist of koreans. kinda defeats the purpose it if you look it that way. and the koreans who go there are the oney who have the teams with enough money to support them, they have a free ticket to an easier code S just because they're on a team. do you seriously think zenio deserves that? seriously anyone who doesn't understand his point of view is a really slow person.
If you can't understand that not making money at something means you shouldn't be doing it as a vocation, I'm not sure what to tell you.
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On April 12 2013 13:05 AstroPegnuin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:02 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it. Exactly, there is tons of koreans who had been in bad situations as well who had to work hard to get where they are. He acts like everything is handed out for them. For every successful korean we hear about, there is a shit ton that are making next to nothing while sacrificing their education. as soon as Koreans hit a good level which they can do without a team house environment they are recruited to teams and given the opportunity to reach their full potential, for a NA guy to get this opportunity he has to luck out and get picked up by EG or something which is almost a non existent thing now a days. Also pro gaming is culturally more acceptable in Korea where as in America if your unemployed sitting in your parents basement grinding out mass games your probably going to get your ass booted out within the month assuming your parents have a good frame of mind.
Yet that decision to join a team is a sacrifice as well (comparing players of equal age). There is a large competitive scene there, it isn`t like a team just picks up anyone.
As for being culturally acceptable, well we can`t look at Blizzard for that. His ideal WCS isn`t going to change that.
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a little rat just ran behind artosis....
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On April 12 2013 13:08 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:06 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:03 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea. It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you.... You really don't think that Blizzard making an investement to better the future of SC2 by attempting to make foreigners in NA and EU sustainable is a good thing? Do you really think that Koreans draw the numbers that foreigners do? Look when Stephano goes out of a tourney. Look what happens to the numbers; 20k people go poof. No I don't think blizzard cares one way or the other about the "Scene" Blizzard isn't a small company, It's a huge global brand that is publicly traded and has stakeholders that they're accountable to. Do you really think Dustin wants to get on the weekly conference call explaining to the investors that they're not increasing profits so that NA "pro gamers" can make more money? Wake up! This is a BUSINESS NOT A CHARITY.
If Blizzard is giving out X amount of money, who gives a damn where it goes? They can allocate it however the please, but it's the best idea to put it into what will expand the brand (in NA and EU) for future gains. It's ludicrous to insinuate otherwise.
If you can't understand that not making money at something means you shouldn't be doing it as a vocation, I'm not sure what to tell you.
So you basically would be in favor of the death of SC2? Because it's financially viable for about 50 people.
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Isn't DeMuslim British? Why does everyone want him in NA? He should be in EU shouldn't he?
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On April 12 2013 13:09 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:08 AstroPegnuin wrote:
Honestly all I can think of about the people defending this whole Americans need to work harder is that they are either still under 18 and going to school or currently unemployed and leeching off their parents or something, because anyone who maintains a job/goes to school will realize that it's almost near impossible to try and compete with Koreans while barley just making it through everyday expenses, I mean your quit literally given less resources through the means of time, physical state, mental state, and even culturally. You're talking about this like playing starcraft is the only option people have. I'm not good at tennis, should I complain that I can't win the US open?
Heres the thing with Starcraft, natural talent has nothing to do with it, it's all about the time you can put into it. There is an actual science on how you can improve yourself in Starcraft and the best resource for this is time which up and coming foreigners are severely limited on, when you couple that with the fact that the end result for a foreigners hard work is a salary that barley exceeds McDonalds...
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On April 12 2013 13:11 geokilla wrote:
Isn't DeMuslim British? Why does everyone want him in NA? He should be in EU shouldn't he?
i guess it's because he's on EG
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On April 12 2013 13:11 geokilla wrote:
Isn't DeMuslim British? Why does everyone want him in NA? He should be in EU shouldn't he?
Well he's lived in the EG house for over a year now, hasn't he?
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On April 12 2013 13:11 geokilla wrote:
Isn't DeMuslim British? Why does everyone want him in NA? He should be in EU shouldn't he?
He's been living in NA for almost two years. He's number one on the NA GM ladder. He's NA and he belongs.
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On April 12 2013 13:12 ThomasR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:11 geokilla wrote:
Isn't DeMuslim British? Why does everyone want him in NA? He should be in EU shouldn't he? i guess it's because he's on EG
and lives in US.
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On April 12 2013 13:10 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:05 AstroPegnuin wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it. Exactly, there is tons of koreans who had been in bad situations as well who had to work hard to get where they are. He acts like everything is handed out for them. For every successful korean we hear about, there is a shit ton that are making next to nothing while sacrificing their education. as soon as Koreans hit a good level which they can do without a team house environment they are recruited to teams and given the opportunity to reach their full potential, for a NA guy to get this opportunity he has to luck out and get picked up by EG or something which is almost a non existent thing now a days. Also pro gaming is culturally more acceptable in Korea where as in America if your unemployed sitting in your parents basement grinding out mass games your probably going to get your ass booted out within the month assuming your parents have a good frame of mind. Yet that decision to join a team is a sacrifice as well (comparing players of equal age). There is a large competitive scene there, it isn`t like a team just picks up anyone. As for being culturally acceptable, well we can`t look at Blizzard for that. His ideal WCS isn`t going to change that.
Yeah but in Korea as soon as you get on a team you can drop all of your other worries and strictly just focus on Starcraft and give it your all to see if you can make anything happen, having to balance and juggle every day life and then try to work just as hard as Koreans at Starcraft is physically impossible unless your a robot.
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On April 12 2013 13:10 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:03 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea. It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you.... How is that good for the scene though? He's not asking blizzard to make foreigners better at starcraft, or make it easier for foreigners to win money, he's asking blizzard to create an opportunity for foreigners to actually be given the same chance to become as good as koreans, since there just isn't one right now. Korea has A LOT of teamhouses where you can go to live and only play starcraft if you're good at the game. Someone with that same kind of potential who lives in NA or europe doesn't have that, and even if that person has the desire to practice 10-12 hours a day, that's not a possibility because he has to have a job or he simply won't have anywhere to live.
I know this is hard to accept, but really it's not in blizzards best interest to just shovel money at lesser skilled players. Look at pro sports as an example. Do you really think people in AAA minor leagues should have the same contracts as people playing in the majors? That's being generous and saying NA players are on a comparable level to minor league players. In reality, there barely above a comparable "varsity level". This is professional video games guys, not brain surgery. It's not essential that NA progamers make a living doing this.
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On April 12 2013 13:11 AstroPegnuin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:09 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:08 AstroPegnuin wrote:
Honestly all I can think of about the people defending this whole Americans need to work harder is that they are either still under 18 and going to school or currently unemployed and leeching off their parents or something, because anyone who maintains a job/goes to school will realize that it's almost near impossible to try and compete with Koreans while barley just making it through everyday expenses, I mean your quit literally given less resources through the means of time, physical state, mental state, and even culturally. You're talking about this like playing starcraft is the only option people have. I'm not good at tennis, should I complain that I can't win the US open? Heres the thing with Starcraft, natural talent has nothing to do with it, it's all about the time you can put into it. There is an actual science on how you can improve yourself in Starcraft and the best resource for this is time which up and coming foreigners are severely limited on, when you couple that with the fact that the end result for a foreigners hard work is a salary that barley exceeds McDonalds...
Then quit playing professionally and play for fun like 90% of people do. It's really that simple. Either you're going to do what is necessary or you're not going to make this a job.
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On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job.
I just despise the constant "Koreans coming to take OUR money" sentiment. No, Koreans are going to compete in a tournament that they are eligible for and winning money from Blizzard. What Artosis said about then NA/EU players only practicing hard enough to beat other NA/EU player is 100% correct if it was completely region locked. Especially with the prize pools being so high for those two specific regions.
It's the same exact reason why some Koreans are jumping ship from KR region. Why the hell practice twice as hard against hard as fuck competition when you can change regions and have easier competition for the same exact amount of money.
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On April 12 2013 13:10 dAPhREAk wrote:
a little rat just ran behind artosis....
I think he has ferrets...
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On April 12 2013 13:09 AstroPegnuin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:07 Whoranzone wrote:On April 12 2013 13:05 AstroPegnuin wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it. Exactly, there is tons of koreans who had been in bad situations as well who had to work hard to get where they are. He acts like everything is handed out for them. For every successful korean we hear about, there is a shit ton that are making next to nothing while sacrificing their education. as soon as Koreans hit a good level which they can do without a team house environment they are recruited to teams and given the opportunity to reach their full potential, for a NA guy to get this opportunity he has to luck out and get picked up by EG or something which is almost a non existent thing now a days. Also pro gaming is culturally more acceptable in Korea where as in America if your unemployed sitting in your parents basement grinding out mass games your probably going to get your ass booted out within the month assuming your parents have a good frame of mind. Sure Korean parents all jump in joy when a son tells them he wants to pursue his dream in progaming. Well let me put it this way, their parents wont think that something is drastically wrong with their kid and that they are "anti social", lazy, and etc
Yeah right of course because there is everything happy happy joy joy over there they have those good suicide rates.
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On April 12 2013 13:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:12 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 13:11 geokilla wrote:
Isn't DeMuslim British? Why does everyone want him in NA? He should be in EU shouldn't he? i guess it's because he's on EG and lives in US.
No, i think it's because he is on EG....Stephano, anyone?
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On April 12 2013 13:10 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:09 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 13:05 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? aren't you guys fucking listening to him at all? he emphasized he is ok with it if they decrease the prize pool hugely. even if top 3 get like 50/20/5k dollars and koreans cant participate Catz would never make enough money via tournament prize and he knows that, what the fuck are you talking about. You're talking about 5k like it's nothing. Are you insane? Are you really suggesting that it's blizzards job to make it easier for less skilled players to make money? no i'm not talking about 5k like it's nothing, oh my god it's so hard to not insult you. think for a fucking second. in my theoretic scenario last post, 3 tournaments per year, rd place gets 5k, and Catz has no realistic change to even make 3rd because there are like 10 better players than him in americas alone, and he knows it yet you go on CATZ WANTS THE MONEY HE IS SO LAME. man are you braindead or what? his problem is that 70% of the AMERICAN top class league will consist of koreans. kinda defeats the purpose it if you look it that way. and the koreans who go there are the oney who have the teams with enough money to support them, they have a free ticket to an easier code S just because they're on a team. do you seriously think zenio deserves that? seriously anyone who doesn't understand his point of view is a really slow person. If you can't understand that not making money at something means you shouldn't be doing it as a vocation, I'm not sure what to tell you.
we're talking about prize money, they also get money from teams/sponsors.
i'm not sure if there is a point to argue with you at all, 90% of the pro players hardly make any prize money at all and there are people we consider serious monsters like revival, oz, ryung etc. top class koreans who would die if they would have to be living off prize money.
so what the fuck are you talking about again?
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On April 12 2013 13:14 Hrrrrm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. I just despise the constant "Koreans coming to take OUR money" sentiment. No, Koreans are going to compete in a tournament that they are eligible for and winning money from Blizzard. What Artosis said about then NA/EU players only practicing hard enough to beat other NA/EU player is 100% correct if it was completely region locked. Especially with the prize pools being so high for those two specific regions. It's the same exact reason why some Koreans are jumping ship from KR region. Why the hell practice twice as hard against hard as fuck competition when you can change regions and have easier competition for the same exact amount of money.
The sense of entitlement that plagues western culture is one of the reasons Koreans/asians will always dominate in every esport.
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On April 12 2013 13:15 hastur420 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:10 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:09 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 13:05 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? aren't you guys fucking listening to him at all? he emphasized he is ok with it if they decrease the prize pool hugely. even if top 3 get like 50/20/5k dollars and koreans cant participate Catz would never make enough money via tournament prize and he knows that, what the fuck are you talking about. You're talking about 5k like it's nothing. Are you insane? Are you really suggesting that it's blizzards job to make it easier for less skilled players to make money? no i'm not talking about 5k like it's nothing, oh my god it's so hard to not insult you. think for a fucking second. in my theoretic scenario last post, 3 tournaments per year, rd place gets 5k, and Catz has no realistic change to even make 3rd because there are like 10 better players than him in americas alone, and he knows it yet you go on CATZ WANTS THE MONEY HE IS SO LAME. man are you braindead or what? his problem is that 70% of the AMERICAN top class league will consist of koreans. kinda defeats the purpose it if you look it that way. and the koreans who go there are the oney who have the teams with enough money to support them, they have a free ticket to an easier code S just because they're on a team. do you seriously think zenio deserves that? seriously anyone who doesn't understand his point of view is a really slow person. If you can't understand that not making money at something means you shouldn't be doing it as a vocation, I'm not sure what to tell you. we're talking about prize money, they also get money from teams/sponsors. i'm not sure if there is a point to argue with you at all, 90% of the pro players hardly make any prize money at all and there are people we consider serious monsters like revival, oz, ryung etc. top class koreans who would die if they would have to be living off prize money. so what the fuck are you talking about again?
I think he's in favor of the death of SC2 except for the few hundred or so people who can make it financially viable for themselves, because they're bad at their chosen vocation.
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EPT
