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On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea.
It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you....
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On April 12 2013 13:02 hastur420 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? aren't you guys fucking listening to him at all? he emphasized he is ok with it if they decrease the prize pool hugely. even if top 3 get like 50/20/5k dollars and koreans cant participate Catz would never make enough money via tournament prize and he knows that, what the fuck are you talking about.
You're talking about 5k like it's nothing. Are you insane? Are you really suggesting that it's blizzards job to make it easier for less skilled players to make money?
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On April 12 2013 13:02 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it. Exactly, there is tons of koreans who had been in bad situations as well who had to work hard to get where they are. He acts like everything is handed out for them. For every successful korean we hear about, there is a shit ton that are making next to nothing while sacrificing their education.
as soon as Koreans hit a good level which they can do without a team house environment they are recruited to teams and given the opportunity to reach their full potential, for a NA guy to get this opportunity he has to luck out and get picked up by EG or something which is almost a non existent thing now a days. Also pro gaming is culturally more acceptable in Korea where as in America if your unemployed sitting in your parents basement grinding out mass games your probably going to get your ass booted out within the month assuming your parents have a good frame of mind.
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The Koreans will bring in the viewers. Simple as that. That, however, won't grow the NA scene at all. It would actually open of the Korean scene even more; it's like a "GSL World Tour". If it was NA only, sure, there will be very few viewers compared to if there were Koreans, but it will start bringing in more players now that they have a way to make some sort of income without having to be "gifted". In the long run, the NA scene will start to grow and the skill gap will slowly close.
This is not about giving lower skilled players Korean-deserved money, because there should be no Koreans [living outside of NA] in a NA-only tournament in the first place. This is about building the NA scene and its own players.
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On April 12 2013 13:03 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea. It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you....
You really don't think that Blizzard making an investement to better the future of SC2 by attempting to make foreigners in NA and EU sustainable is a good thing? Do you really think that Koreans draw the numbers that foreigners do? Look when Stephano goes out of a tourney. Look what happens to the numbers; 20k people go poof.
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Catz: We're stuck. Come help us out.
No, you're just bad. You're not as good as the best players, so you don't win as much money. This isn't rocket science. Either get better or move on.
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On April 12 2013 12:56 ThomasR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 12:53 NovemberstOrm wrote:On April 12 2013 12:51 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:46 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:41 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 tshi wrote:On April 12 2013 12:39 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 12 2013 12:21 ThomasR wrote:
catz's english...cringe his english is fine. da da da you know, da yea i forgot about that i'm sure his written english is fine, but spoken english is something else I live in Southern California, so I'm very used to hearing people South-of-San Diego speak EN. I wanna say it's fine; he's well-spoken and the accent doesn't bother me i'm not talking about the accent..i have no problem with the accent i'm talking about the constant stuttering and the inability to speak coherently i would bet a fair amount of money that you couldn't speak even 10% well as that in a foreign language. when will usa people stop thinking they're the center of the universe, jeez. catz has like the best english of the non native english foreigners in sc2 I speak Mandarin and French fluently, sup? Cash would be fine. It seems that you're the one who truly believes that USA is the center of the universe, as you automatically assume that I'm American......jeez? lol k anyone can make up something over the internet without actually proving it. fan zhen wo gen ni shuo she mo dou mei you yong, sha bi
Some people on tl do speak Chinese dude.
And Catz's english is fine, I have no idea how you guys find fault with it
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"if you want a chunk of our money"
can you believe this guy
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On April 12 2013 13:05 AstroPegnuin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:02 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it. Exactly, there is tons of koreans who had been in bad situations as well who had to work hard to get where they are. He acts like everything is handed out for them. For every successful korean we hear about, there is a shit ton that are making next to nothing while sacrificing their education. as soon as Koreans hit a good level which they can do without a team house environment they are recruited to teams and given the opportunity to reach their full potential, for a NA guy to get this opportunity he has to luck out and get picked up by EG or something which is almost a non existent thing now a days. Also pro gaming is culturally more acceptable in Korea where as in America if your unemployed sitting in your parents basement grinding out mass games your probably going to get your ass booted out within the month assuming your parents have a good frame of mind.
Sure Korean parents all jump in joy when a son tells them he wants to pursue his dream in progaming.
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With CatZ, it's all about the money. But he has a point because he runs the team and has expenses to pay. Even if he gets better like you all say, what's the chances of him beating Koreans like Polt? I'd say 0%.
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Honestly all I can think of about the people defending this whole Americans need to work harder is that they are either still under 18 and going to school or currently unemployed and leeching off their parents or something, because anyone who maintains a job/goes to school will realize that it's almost near impossible to try and compete with Koreans while barley just making it through everyday expenses, I mean your quit literally given less resources through the means of time, physical state, mental state, and even culturally.
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On April 12 2013 13:06 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:03 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea. It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you.... You really don't think that Blizzard making an investement to better the future of SC2 by attempting to make foreigners in NA and EU sustainable is a good thing? Do you really think that Koreans draw the numbers that foreigners do? Look when Stephano goes out of a tourney. Look what happens to the numbers; 20k people go poof.
No I don't think blizzard cares one way or the other about the "Scene" Blizzard isn't a small company, It's a huge global brand that is publicly traded and has stakeholders that they're accountable to. Do you really think Dustin wants to get on the weekly conference call explaining to the investors that they're not increasing profits so that NA "pro gamers" can make more money? Wake up! This is a BUSINESS NOT A CHARITY.
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So hard to hear them Catz on and on about "we would be OK if koreans would have to move over" when the fact is they WILL HAVE to move over since the lan part is going to extended, perhaps even in season 2.
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On April 12 2013 13:07 Whoranzone wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:05 AstroPegnuin wrote:On April 12 2013 13:02 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it. Exactly, there is tons of koreans who had been in bad situations as well who had to work hard to get where they are. He acts like everything is handed out for them. For every successful korean we hear about, there is a shit ton that are making next to nothing while sacrificing their education. as soon as Koreans hit a good level which they can do without a team house environment they are recruited to teams and given the opportunity to reach their full potential, for a NA guy to get this opportunity he has to luck out and get picked up by EG or something which is almost a non existent thing now a days. Also pro gaming is culturally more acceptable in Korea where as in America if your unemployed sitting in your parents basement grinding out mass games your probably going to get your ass booted out within the month assuming your parents have a good frame of mind. Sure Korean parents all jump in joy when a son tells them he wants to pursue his dream in progaming.
Well let me put it this way, their parents wont think that something is drastically wrong with their kid and that they are "anti social", lazy, and etc
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On April 12 2013 13:05 NapkinBox wrote:
The Koreans will bring in the viewers. Simple as that. That, however, won't grow the NA scene at all. It would actually open of the Korean scene even more; it's like a "GSL World Tour". If it was NA only, sure, there will be very few viewers compared to if there were Koreans, but it will start bringing in more players now that they have a way to make some sort of income without having to be "gifted". In the long run, the NA scene will start to grow and the skill gap will slowly close.
This is not about giving lower skilled players Korean-deserved money, because there should be no Koreans [living outside of NA] in a NA-only tournament in the first place. This is about building the NA scene and its own players.
By that logic, after 2 years of exactly what you're describing, Taiwanese players would have caught up to Koreans. It hasn't happened though, because their regional league only encourages them to be good enough to beat each other. And they play and ladder on the same server as the Koreans.
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On April 12 2013 13:05 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:02 hastur420 wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? aren't you guys fucking listening to him at all? he emphasized he is ok with it if they decrease the prize pool hugely. even if top 3 get like 50/20/5k dollars and koreans cant participate Catz would never make enough money via tournament prize and he knows that, what the fuck are you talking about. You're talking about 5k like it's nothing. Are you insane? Are you really suggesting that it's blizzards job to make it easier for less skilled players to make money?
no i'm not talking about 5k like it's nothing, oh my god it's so hard to not insult you. think for a fucking second.
in my theoretic scenario last post, 3 tournaments per year, rd place gets 5k, and Catz has no realistic chance to even make 3rd because there are like 10 better players than him in americas alone, and he knows it
yet you go on CATZ WANTS THE MONEY HE IS SO LAME. man are you braindead or what?
his problem is that 70% of the AMERICAN top class league will consist of koreans. kinda defeats the purpose it if you look it that way.
and the koreans who go there are the oney who have the teams with enough money to support them, they have a free ticket to an easier code S just because they're on a team. do you seriously think zenio deserves that?
seriously anyone who doesn't understand his point of view is a really slow person.
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On April 12 2013 13:08 AstroPegnuin wrote:
Honestly all I can think of about the people defending this whole Americans need to work harder is that they are either still under 18 and going to school or currently unemployed and leeching off their parents or something, because anyone who maintains a job/goes to school will realize that it's almost near impossible to try and compete with Koreans while barley just making it through everyday expenses, I mean your quit literally given less resources through the means of time, physical state, mental state, and even culturally.
You're talking about this like playing starcraft is the only option people have. I'm not good at tennis, should I complain that I can't win the US open?
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On April 12 2013 13:03 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea. It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you....
The whole point of WCS is to crown a world champion AND to help the SC2 scene to grow especially in the western world. Blizzard WANTS to improve the western scene.
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On April 12 2013 12:57 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 12:53 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:50 jj33 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:49 Shelke14 wrote:On April 12 2013 12:40 ThomasR wrote:On April 12 2013 12:33 jj33 wrote:
root catz does nothing but whine.
he basically has given up, he wants other people to allow him to succeed.
Koreans didn't get this good by having shit given to them, they worked their asses off.
he's just a whiner who thinks NA players deserve the same prize money as koreans but refuses to practice like them You have no idea what you are talking about. He is not whining in the slightest because he actually brings up valid points. Try listening and understanding what he is trying to get across instead of being an asshole actually no he's right. catz is a whiner pure and simple. listen to artosis and really listen to what he's saying. Right.... Catz's points of it being nearly impossible for individuals in NA to practice like koreans because there is no infrastructure is a perfectly well thought out problem that is happening here. You two have zero merit in what you are typing here because you are tossing out his points with no thought what so ever. If you are not willing to actually discuss the points then don't post here. You think the koreans had it easy years ago when they were building it up? it takes super dedication and time. they had no money, eating crap for food, sacrificing, blood, sweat and tears. point is catz wants it without the effort. he has no idea of how hard the koreans had to work. it didn't come for free. so yea I do hear his points and at the end of the day it's whining. this whole whining about koreans is moot anyways, their dominance is going nowhere, so get used to it.
when koreans started playing bw there wasnt another country full of team houses already shitting on them, lol.
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On April 12 2013 13:03 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 13:02 AgentW wrote:On April 12 2013 13:00 Klipsys wrote:On April 12 2013 12:59 DaCruise wrote:On April 12 2013 12:56 Klipsys wrote:
Dude, I'm so sick of hearing people fucking complain that blizzard isn't handing them money to play their game. Either shut up practice and beat Koreans, or get a real fucking job. Most people HAVE to do both if you are outside of Korea. Get a clue! Catz actually knows what he is talking about. He knows what he's talking about as far as a 20 something who wants to make money playing video games...Are you seriously implying that blizzard should make it easier for non-koreans to make money? Yes, and that's CatZ's point. As a long term investment, Blizzard investing in building NA and EU will be best for the scene if they can come somewhere close to Korea. It's not blizzards job to make you better at starcraft. It's not blizzards job to make it easier for non-koreans to win money. I can't believe there are people arguing for pseudo esports welfare! If you're not good enough to win money, maybe this isn't for you....
How is that good for the scene though? He's not asking blizzard to make foreigners better at starcraft, or make it easier for foreigners to win money, he's asking blizzard to create an opportunity for foreigners to actually be given the same chance to become as good as koreans, since there just isn't one right now. Korea has A LOT of teamhouses where you can go to live and only play starcraft if you're good at the game. Someone with that same kind of potential who lives in NA or europe doesn't have that, and even if that person has the desire to practice 10-12 hours a day, that's not a possibility because he has to have a job or he simply won't have anywhere to live.
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EPT
