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On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us?
I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever.
What does hold validity is that while SotG doesn't have any implicit obligation to represent Terran viewpoints fairly, a lot of people would really appreciate an ATTEMPT at unbias when Terran players have had a lot of trouble for the past month with a certain matchup. Especially when the best T players in the world have commented on it (along with DRG as well at this point), who play the race a hell of a lot more than anyone on the show, no offense.
It shouldn't be an issue glossed over, like I mentioned in my previous post, as something that Terran players just need to "adapt" to instead of crying about it with Incontrol mentioning that Terran players shouldn't even be able to complain about balance because of past win rates. Man, it's pretty insulting to hear that when in this very thread Incontrol you admit your T play is shit. I won't bring up Avilo because that dimension is absurd, however what makes you a qualified person to speak on T balance at all at this stage?
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On June 21 2012 00:18 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 23:42 Quotidian wrote:On June 20 2012 23:37 iNcontroL wrote:On June 20 2012 23:29 Quotidian wrote:On June 20 2012 23:26 iNcontroL wrote:this thread never disappoints  Judgements coming from folk who actually have no fucking clue (looking at you quitodian/starstruck) . not exactly impressed with you either Obviously lol, you have been posting about how much you aren't impressed by me all over this forum.. get over it. how about you get over yourself? You're not as big of a deal as you think you are. The way you people are acting against certain players on the podcast is nothing but petty. None of you, not even Idra, is 10x the player of anyone in high masters, that much is blatantly obvious at this point. Anyway, hope the podcast improves soon. Sad to see it go down the (archon) toilet like this Tell me sir, how not big of a deal am I? Like, what right do I have to say things according to you? Where do I draw the line? I am big deal enough to cast DH and be on SOTG but not enough to claim I am better than avilo or something? I'd love to discuss this with you!
I think actually you'd love to wait for him to say something obviously stupid (which is inevitable) and then completely rip him to shreds with suitable mention to his inferior genitalia and total lack of finesse in dealing with members of the opposite sex 
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On June 21 2012 00:17 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 23:51 Starshaped wrote:On June 20 2012 23:41 iNcontroL wrote:
you should front him the money then? Interesting also that you dodged his reverse race challenge, and so many people were so quick to dismiss it. Here's a guy who says Protoss is imbalanced against Terran, and he's willing to stand by it by offracing against a player "10x his skill" with money on the line. Tell me, unless Terran really is weak, why would you avoid this challenge and avoid the free money? I think Avilo wanting to reverse the races was a pretty hilarious twist. It isn't a reverse challenge when someone asks you to put your money where your mouth is and you reply by asking them to do something that they don't normally do (play a different race) and throw it back at them lol.. that is a dodge. You can't dodge someone who is dodging my friend. It is becoming very clear that you should be ignored though  Explaining this kind of stuff to someone is a waste of time.
Because Avilo plays Protoss all the time, right? You'd both be off-racing, so what's the problem?
And who cares who challenged first? You issued a challenge, Avilo changed the terms, you didn't accept these terms. If Avilo is dodging then you are dodging just as much.
I wouldn't be surprised if he did accept the original terms, though.
And there's no need to be patronizing.
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On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever.
yeah, and I actually never said competency was a qualification. I actually said the opposite, but Nony seems to have glossed over that fact. To quote myself: "Obviously, competency isn't a qualification"
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Incontrol and Nony should start streaming right now to liven up the commentary haha
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On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. What does hold validity is that while SotG doesn't have any implicit obligation to represent Terran viewpoints fairly, a lot of people would really appreciate an ATTEMPT at unbias when Terran players have had a lot of trouble for the past month with a certain matchup. Especially when the best T players in the world have commented on it (along with DRG as well at this point), who play the race a hell of a lot more than anyone on the show, no offense. It shouldn't be an issue glossed over, like I mentioned in my previous post, as something that Terran players just need to "adapt" to instead of crying about it with Incontrol mentioning that Terran players shouldn't even be able to complain about balance because of past win rates. Man, it's pretty insulting to hear that when in this very thread Incontrol you admit your T play is shit. I won't bring up Avilo because that dimension is absurd, however what makes you a qualified person to speak on T balance at all at this stage?
Ya SoTG owes it to us to put a Terran on the show and none of these pro gamers could even begin to comment on the Terran race with any accuracy. We should get our money back. Oh wait, its free...
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I've been a follower and player of sc2 (or any rts game) only since last October or so, but I have to say that I don't really understand some of the attitudes a certain portion of this community seems to have. Why do you need to be a prolevel terran player to be qualified to talk about terran, especially when it's on a fairly general level? Of course I understand that a terran would likely be able to better describe the difficulties and different approaches they've already tried, but what makes anyone think that what the terran says is in any way correct? Everyone is always most aware of the weaknesses of their own race, and as has been proven by the new strategies and metagame shifts that still happen, even pro players aren't some all-knowing masterminds and they also have learning to do. Because the patch hasn't been out for that long, it is totally reasonable for the hosts to say that one should wait for a while before making final judgements. It's not like iNcontroL suddenly started throwing out builds as solutions to TvZ without trying them himself, in which case criticism would have been more appropriate.
SOTG seems to have taken the road where they talk mostly about recent events in the scene, rather than the "state of the game" itself. This is also another reason why I see it as silly to complain about the lack of a terran point of view. They are having a talk show, and it's far better to have the current hosts than to have people there just for the sake of them being terran but risk them not fitting in or not being able to communicate their thoughts in a decent way.
If you want changes to the show, you should give proper reasons for them. There may be good reasons for needing a terran on the show, one of them being that you want the show to be more about the "state of the game". However, "there are no terrans" is not in my opinion a good reason on its own because it isn't really that relevant with the current direction of the show, so these comments come off to me at least as quite pointless.
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On June 21 2012 00:26 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:17 iNcontroL wrote:On June 20 2012 23:51 Starshaped wrote:On June 20 2012 23:41 iNcontroL wrote:
you should front him the money then? Interesting also that you dodged his reverse race challenge, and so many people were so quick to dismiss it. Here's a guy who says Protoss is imbalanced against Terran, and he's willing to stand by it by offracing against a player "10x his skill" with money on the line. Tell me, unless Terran really is weak, why would you avoid this challenge and avoid the free money? I think Avilo wanting to reverse the races was a pretty hilarious twist. It isn't a reverse challenge when someone asks you to put your money where your mouth is and you reply by asking them to do something that they don't normally do (play a different race) and throw it back at them lol.. that is a dodge. You can't dodge someone who is dodging my friend. It is becoming very clear that you should be ignored though Explaining this kind of stuff to someone is a waste of time. Because Avilo plays Protoss all the time, right? You'd both be off-racing, so what's the problem? And who cares who challenged first? You issued a challenge, Avilo changed the terms, you didn't accept these terms. If Avilo is dodging then you are dodging just as much. I wouldn't be surprised if he did accept the original terms, though. And there's no need to be patronizing.
If Incontrol says "Nah, let's have an arm wrestling competition" and Avilo refuses, is Avilo now dodging?
Jesus, this is the most retarded argument I've seen in this thread and that's saying something.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. What does hold validity is that while SotG doesn't have any implicit obligation to represent Terran viewpoints fairly, a lot of people would really appreciate an ATTEMPT at unbias when Terran players have had a lot of trouble for the past month with a certain matchup. Especially when the best T players in the world have commented on it (along with DRG as well at this point), who play the race a hell of a lot more than anyone on the show, no offense. It shouldn't be an issue glossed over, like I mentioned in my previous post, as something that Terran players just need to "adapt" to instead of crying about it with Incontrol mentioning that Terran players shouldn't even be able to complain about balance because of past win rates. Man, it's pretty insulting to hear that when in this very thread Incontrol you admit your T play is shit. I won't bring up Avilo because that dimension is absurd, however what makes you a qualified person to speak on T balance at all at this stage?
I'm sorry, playing ability with a race actually has very little to do with being able to discuss them. I watch more terran play, play more terran and interact with higher level terrans than 99.99999999% of the SC2 world.. I think when I speak on terran you can consider my opinion and view point pretty damn informed. If you think I need to ladder with terran to be able to discuss them ok, then you are not really worth talking with anyways. Do you watch football games and get mad at the announcers when they discuss the game? Do they need to have been a goalie to criticize their ability? Do they need to be as good or better? Nope... this is a concept children or idiots on the iternet propogate as a way of making themselves feel special. Sorry, you are not. We are though.. we do this for a living and are lucky enough to have access to people/things/places you never will. Value our opinion or for the fuck sakes GO AWAY because you shouldn't subject yourselves to our banter!
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On June 21 2012 00:27 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. What does hold validity is that while SotG doesn't have any implicit obligation to represent Terran viewpoints fairly, a lot of people would really appreciate an ATTEMPT at unbias when Terran players have had a lot of trouble for the past month with a certain matchup. Especially when the best T players in the world have commented on it (along with DRG as well at this point), who play the race a hell of a lot more than anyone on the show, no offense. It shouldn't be an issue glossed over, like I mentioned in my previous post, as something that Terran players just need to "adapt" to instead of crying about it with Incontrol mentioning that Terran players shouldn't even be able to complain about balance because of past win rates. Man, it's pretty insulting to hear that when in this very thread Incontrol you admit your T play is shit. I won't bring up Avilo because that dimension is absurd, however what makes you a qualified person to speak on T balance at all at this stage? Ya SoTG owes it to us to put a Terran on the show and none of these pro gamers could even begin to comment on the Terran race with any accuracy. We should get our money back. Oh wait, its free...
Did you even read my post? You didn't even get to the second sentence LMAO.
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On June 21 2012 00:29 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:27 Quotidian wrote:On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. yeah, and I actually never said competency was a qualification. I actually said the opposite, but Nony seems to have glossed over that fact. To quote myself: "Obviously, competency isn't a qualification" If Incontrol says "Nah, let's have an arm wrestling competition" and Avilo refuses, is Avilo now dodging? Jesus, this is the most retarded argument I've seen in this thread and that's saying something.
I never discussed nor cared about whether Avilo was "dodging" Incontrol or not. I'm specifically talking about whether Avilo is "competent" enough as a terran player to be a guest on the show. Sometimes you have to go back a few posts to actually understand what is being discussed... I can think of a few reasons not to have him on the show, but his skill as a terran isn't one of them.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On June 21 2012 00:26 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:17 iNcontroL wrote:On June 20 2012 23:51 Starshaped wrote:On June 20 2012 23:41 iNcontroL wrote:
you should front him the money then? Interesting also that you dodged his reverse race challenge, and so many people were so quick to dismiss it. Here's a guy who says Protoss is imbalanced against Terran, and he's willing to stand by it by offracing against a player "10x his skill" with money on the line. Tell me, unless Terran really is weak, why would you avoid this challenge and avoid the free money? I think Avilo wanting to reverse the races was a pretty hilarious twist. It isn't a reverse challenge when someone asks you to put your money where your mouth is and you reply by asking them to do something that they don't normally do (play a different race) and throw it back at them lol.. that is a dodge. You can't dodge someone who is dodging my friend. It is becoming very clear that you should be ignored though Explaining this kind of stuff to someone is a waste of time. Because Avilo plays Protoss all the time, right? You'd both be off-racing, so what's the problem? And who cares who challenged first? You issued a challenge, Avilo changed the terms, you didn't accept these terms. If Avilo is dodging then you are dodging just as much. I wouldn't be surprised if he did accept the original terms, though. And there's no need to be patronizing.
Shit you are right.. timing of challenges don't matter. Ok let me fix this!
AVILO! I hear your challenge to change the terms to offraces and I RECHANGE the challenge to a new form of combat! We will do this via battlenet and you will play terran and I will play protoss! YOUR MOVE!
Ok, now if he dodges I win right? Thanks for clarifying btw.. forgot to reissue the challenge so it's now up to him by rules of the internet to either change the challenge or accept.
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On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us?
I wont speak for him , but to me it sounds like you are putting words in his mouth.
This turned out to a giant pissing contest about who is better than who.
While I don't like that I do like the fact that you actually take the time to answer people in this thread.
So how about addressing the main issue ?
Shit hit the fan yesterday and a lot of people found the actual state of the game discussion to be biased or at the very least a bit incomplete.
Isn't it reasonable that one of you at least tries to represent the terran perspective if you can't find a terran for the day.
As I said before this has to look pretty bad for non-hardcore starcraft fans.
In a main stream sport like football it would be completely unacceptable to not let one party speak their opinion.
Sure there are online fan shows that displays equal or worse bias than on Sotg, but those are seen as what they are:
Fan shows.
What distinguishes those shows is the absence of professional football journalists.
The situation in E-sports is different since you are professional representatives of your teams and the organizations that hire your services as casters etc. If you can't make a show about starcraft 2 without neglecting the perspective of 1/3 of the scene you wont be taken seriously in the long run.
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On June 21 2012 00:31 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:29 FuzzyJAM wrote:On June 21 2012 00:27 Quotidian wrote:On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. yeah, and I actually never said competency was a qualification. I actually said the opposite, but Nony seems to have glossed over that fact. To quote myself: "Obviously, competency isn't a qualification" If Incontrol says "Nah, let's have an arm wrestling competition" and Avilo refuses, is Avilo now dodging? Jesus, this is the most retarded argument I've seen in this thread and that's saying something. I never discussed nor cared about whether Avilo was "dodging" Incontrol or not. I'm specifically talking about whether Avilo is "competent" enough as a terran player to be a guest on the show. Sometimes you have to go back a few posts to actually understand what is being discussed... I can think of a few reasons not to have him on the show, but his skill as a terran isn't one of them.
Quoted the wrong post. Edited.
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On June 21 2012 00:29 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. What does hold validity is that while SotG doesn't have any implicit obligation to represent Terran viewpoints fairly, a lot of people would really appreciate an ATTEMPT at unbias when Terran players have had a lot of trouble for the past month with a certain matchup. Especially when the best T players in the world have commented on it (along with DRG as well at this point), who play the race a hell of a lot more than anyone on the show, no offense. It shouldn't be an issue glossed over, like I mentioned in my previous post, as something that Terran players just need to "adapt" to instead of crying about it with Incontrol mentioning that Terran players shouldn't even be able to complain about balance because of past win rates. Man, it's pretty insulting to hear that when in this very thread Incontrol you admit your T play is shit. I won't bring up Avilo because that dimension is absurd, however what makes you a qualified person to speak on T balance at all at this stage? I'm sorry, playing ability with a race actually has very little to do with being able to discuss them. I watch more terran play, play more terran and interact with higher level terrans than 99.99999999% of the SC2 world.. I think when I speak on terran you can consider my opinion and view point pretty damn informed. If you think I need to ladder with terran to be able to discuss them ok, then you are not really worth talking with anyways. Do you watch football games and get mad at the announcers when they discuss the game? Do they need to have been a goalie to criticize their ability? Do they need to be as good or better? Nope... this is a concept children or idiots on the iternet propogate as a way of making themselves feel special. Sorry, you are not. We are though.. we do this for a living and are lucky enough to have access to people/things/places you never will. Value our opinion or for the fuck sakes GO AWAY because you shouldn't subject yourselves to our banter!
and here we have Incontrol's debating skills in practice: "You should consider my opinion as pretty damn valid, because, you know.. I'm Incontrol! Disagree with me? GO AWAY."
Classic
it's like I should consider Artosis' opinion on tvp mech valid because.. you know.. he's Artosis!
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On June 21 2012 00:31 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:26 Starshaped wrote:On June 21 2012 00:17 iNcontroL wrote:On June 20 2012 23:51 Starshaped wrote:On June 20 2012 23:41 iNcontroL wrote:
you should front him the money then? Interesting also that you dodged his reverse race challenge, and so many people were so quick to dismiss it. Here's a guy who says Protoss is imbalanced against Terran, and he's willing to stand by it by offracing against a player "10x his skill" with money on the line. Tell me, unless Terran really is weak, why would you avoid this challenge and avoid the free money? I think Avilo wanting to reverse the races was a pretty hilarious twist. It isn't a reverse challenge when someone asks you to put your money where your mouth is and you reply by asking them to do something that they don't normally do (play a different race) and throw it back at them lol.. that is a dodge. You can't dodge someone who is dodging my friend. It is becoming very clear that you should be ignored though Explaining this kind of stuff to someone is a waste of time. Because Avilo plays Protoss all the time, right? You'd both be off-racing, so what's the problem? And who cares who challenged first? You issued a challenge, Avilo changed the terms, you didn't accept these terms. If Avilo is dodging then you are dodging just as much. I wouldn't be surprised if he did accept the original terms, though. And there's no need to be patronizing. Shit you are right.. timing of challenges don't matter. Ok let me fix this! AVILO! I hear your challenge to change the terms to offraces and I RECHANGE the challenge to a new form of combat! We will do this via battlenet and you will play terran and I will play protoss! YOUR MOVE! Ok, now if he dodges I win right? Thanks for clarifying btw.. forgot to reissue the challenge so it's now up to him by rules of the internet to either change the challenge or accept.
No, sir, it's up to you both to come to a agreement. My point is simply that you can't single-handedly set up the terms when you are both having an argument and then call your opponent a dodger when he tries to interject with his own terms or suggestions.
So, yes, if you call him a dodger for dodging your challenge, he can just as much call you a dodger for dodging his.
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I'll squeak in between these posts that in the end having this argument here does not matter. The posters in this thread will not achieve anything because posting in this thread does not have the reach that SOTG does, nor do they have the position in the community that the hosts have.
If you (and I mean the non-SOTG hosts in the thread), believe that you are right, sit back and wait for history to right matters for you. You do not have an avenue to change anything here. With that attitude you might even enjoy most of the show.
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On June 21 2012 00:29 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 00:23 Positronic wrote:On June 21 2012 00:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 20 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote:On June 20 2012 23:53 Liquid`NonY wrote:
TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification.
Why wouldn't you want Artosis and Day[9], who have accomplished less than me in BW and are worse than me at SC2, kicked off the show? He doesn't. Neither does he want you off the show. What he does want on the show is someone who plays terran to make the show better in many peoples opinion. The qualification is competency and he's said that Avilo is just as incompetent as us, and supplies our results as evidence for that assessment, and then says he doesn't want Avilo on the show. How does that not lead to not wanting us on the show either and anyone with worse results than us? I think that was a bit of a ridiculous post and doesn't hold any validity whatsoever. What does hold validity is that while SotG doesn't have any implicit obligation to represent Terran viewpoints fairly, a lot of people would really appreciate an ATTEMPT at unbias when Terran players have had a lot of trouble for the past month with a certain matchup. Especially when the best T players in the world have commented on it (along with DRG as well at this point), who play the race a hell of a lot more than anyone on the show, no offense. It shouldn't be an issue glossed over, like I mentioned in my previous post, as something that Terran players just need to "adapt" to instead of crying about it with Incontrol mentioning that Terran players shouldn't even be able to complain about balance because of past win rates. Man, it's pretty insulting to hear that when in this very thread Incontrol you admit your T play is shit. I won't bring up Avilo because that dimension is absurd, however what makes you a qualified person to speak on T balance at all at this stage? I'm sorry, playing ability with a race actually has very little to do with being able to discuss them. I watch more terran play, play more terran and interact with higher level terrans than 99.99999999% of the SC2 world.. I think when I speak on terran you can consider my opinion and view point pretty damn informed. If you think I need to ladder with terran to be able to discuss them ok, then you are not really worth talking with anyways. Do you watch football games and get mad at the announcers when they discuss the game? Do they need to have been a goalie to criticize their ability? Do they need to be as good or better? Nope... this is a concept children or idiots on the iternet propogate as a way of making themselves feel special. Sorry, you are not. We are though.. we do this for a living and are lucky enough to have access to people/things/places you never will. Value our opinion or for the fuck sakes GO AWAY because you shouldn't subject yourselves to our banter!
I don't think anyone doubts your knowledge or ability to discuss Terran, like you said you are part of a top echelon of players which understand/play the game. I think people were upset that the discussion was biases or incomplete.I guess people are messaging because they care and therefore want to show to improve.
P.S.: Looking at some of your previous posts you have an obsession with capital letters. I will re write my comment incontrol style:
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't think anyone doubts your knowledge or ability to discuss Terran, like you said you are part of a top echelon of players. I think people were upset that the discussion was BIASED or INCOMPLETE. I guess people are messaging because they CARE and therefore want to show to IMPROVE.
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Maybe some of you people that go qq:ing in this thread every god damn week should start a show of you own. You could call it 'State of the State of the game'
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EPT
