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On May 28 2012 22:58 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 22:32 FuzzyJAM wrote:On May 28 2012 22:02 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 17:23 farnham wrote:
day9 needs to apologize to the scene or leave the scene after this debacle with last shadow
he got in a player that has no (positive record) and let him into poolplay with players like parting or squirtle
last shadow lost every match he played and left the tournament in a bm manner because he didnt "feel well".
did mvp feel well with his injured wrist when he won gsl against squirtle last week? probably not.
day 9 got in a player that doesnt fit the criteria of "one of the best players in the world" and he needs to feel responsible for this . the last time an invite like this was done was probably lucifron in dreamhack valencia but that was to appeal to the local crowd. this time there is no real reason outside that lastshadow seems to be a friend of day 9 Day9 doesn't "need" to do anything. Acquire a grasp on reality, please. It's just a game and LS playing and failing isn't important enough to demand anybody's head on the block. Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion didn't exactly have extremely impressive runs either (perfectly understandable results given the level of competition), but no one is getting upset about this - but that's because we've collectively decided to like Sheth or whatever. I had my fair share of schadenfreude when LS went 0-3 as well, because that's just human nature, but this LS/Day9 nepotism witchhunt that Incontrol is partially responsible for just shows how dumb and single minded this community is. Get over it. Being OK with Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion might have more to do with the fact that they're actually known players who have at least had some success. It makes sense if you want to have foreigners (and assuming you don't get whoever you want) to go with them. LastShadow hasn't done anything impressive ever and hadn't even been seen for about a year. Vastly different.  OstojiyAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-06-17 Toronto Quest for the Best Ostojiy 3 : 1 IefNaij 2011-06-12 US Go4SC2 Cup #64 Ostojiy 2 : 1 daisuki 2011-05-15 US Go4SC2 Cup #56 Ostojiy 3 : 0 LuckyFool 2011-04-30 US CraftCup #31 Ostojiy 1 : 3 SungpA LastShadowAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-11-06 NESC2 League Season 2 LastShadow 2 : 3 Boyo 2011-07-02 NA ZOTAC Cup #8 LastShadow 3 : 0 HongUn 2011-05-21 NA ZOTAC Cup #2 LastShadow 3 : 2 rsvp 2011-04-17 NESC2 League Season 1 LastShadow 3 : 1 Ryan 2011-04-15 IG Cup #6 LastShadow 4 : 3 Warden 2010 Date Event Result 2010-08-28 MLG Raleigh LastShadow 0 : 2 Socke 2010-08-15 NVIDIA GosuCup US Qualifier #1 LastShadow 3 : 1 HayprO So how does Ostojiy get out of a 0-3 unremarked upon, while LS gets hounded, while idiots are demanding Day9's retirement because of LS' performance?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/Championship
look at results from Ostojiy, thank you.
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On May 29 2012 02:41 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 22:58 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 22:32 FuzzyJAM wrote:On May 28 2012 22:02 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 17:23 farnham wrote:
day9 needs to apologize to the scene or leave the scene after this debacle with last shadow
he got in a player that has no (positive record) and let him into poolplay with players like parting or squirtle
last shadow lost every match he played and left the tournament in a bm manner because he didnt "feel well".
did mvp feel well with his injured wrist when he won gsl against squirtle last week? probably not.
day 9 got in a player that doesnt fit the criteria of "one of the best players in the world" and he needs to feel responsible for this . the last time an invite like this was done was probably lucifron in dreamhack valencia but that was to appeal to the local crowd. this time there is no real reason outside that lastshadow seems to be a friend of day 9 Day9 doesn't "need" to do anything. Acquire a grasp on reality, please. It's just a game and LS playing and failing isn't important enough to demand anybody's head on the block. Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion didn't exactly have extremely impressive runs either (perfectly understandable results given the level of competition), but no one is getting upset about this - but that's because we've collectively decided to like Sheth or whatever. I had my fair share of schadenfreude when LS went 0-3 as well, because that's just human nature, but this LS/Day9 nepotism witchhunt that Incontrol is partially responsible for just shows how dumb and single minded this community is. Get over it. Being OK with Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion might have more to do with the fact that they're actually known players who have at least had some success. It makes sense if you want to have foreigners (and assuming you don't get whoever you want) to go with them. LastShadow hasn't done anything impressive ever and hadn't even been seen for about a year. Vastly different. OstojiyAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-06-17 Toronto Quest for the Best Ostojiy 3 : 1 IefNaij 2011-06-12 US Go4SC2 Cup #64 Ostojiy 2 : 1 daisuki 2011-05-15 US Go4SC2 Cup #56 Ostojiy 3 : 0 LuckyFool 2011-04-30 US CraftCup #31 Ostojiy 1 : 3 SungpA LastShadowAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-11-06 NESC2 League Season 2 LastShadow 2 : 3 Boyo 2011-07-02 NA ZOTAC Cup #8 LastShadow 3 : 0 HongUn 2011-05-21 NA ZOTAC Cup #2 LastShadow 3 : 2 rsvp 2011-04-17 NESC2 League Season 1 LastShadow 3 : 1 Ryan 2011-04-15 IG Cup #6 LastShadow 4 : 3 Warden 2010 Date Event Result 2010-08-28 MLG Raleigh LastShadow 0 : 2 Socke 2010-08-15 NVIDIA GosuCup US Qualifier #1 LastShadow 3 : 1 HayprO So how does Ostojiy get out of a 0-3 unremarked upon, while LS gets hounded, while idiots are demanding Day9's retirement because of LS' performance? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/Championshiplook at results from Ostojiy, thank you.
yes, and..? He still went unceremoniously 0-3 in his group. The issue isn't that Ostojiy doesn't have merit - he does. It's that people claim LS has none, when in terms of meaningful tournament placements, they're pretty much equal
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On May 29 2012 02:18 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 21:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 21:41 Dalavita wrote:On May 28 2012 19:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Day9's rapidly declining casting skills are more of an issue than his nepotism for me. What is declining with his casting skills? His game knowledge is poor these days. He consistantly overemphasises things which aren't important. He overhypes everything to the point of insulting the intelligence of the viewers (if the supply is 200 vs 70 the game is over Sean, stop shouting). He is extremely biased towards foreign players His knowledge of players (especially Koreans) is really poor, he doesn't know which tournaments they've done well and doesn't know their best matchups or the styles they favour. He is extremely positive about players even as they play really poorly and especially when foreigners play he will never call a spade a spade. The standard of casters in general is so poor compared with mainstream sports. It's unbelievable that so many casters don't know how players they're casting play or their strengths and weaknesses. What an excellent post. About a year ago, like at the first MLG Columbus, I thought Day9 was really great and a quality caster. However, he seemingly just started to go down hill until I got frustrated watching him. His constant harps on things that seemingly shouldn't matter (forgetting adrenal upgrade as soon as hive finishes, not re-powering gateways the instant the pylon goes down, etc) and his over enthusiasm is incredibly offsetting. Plus it doesn't help he actually has people filter his criticism.
Ya I made the comment during the red bull battleground that I felt that DJ Wheat was the only caster there who had a finger on the pulse of the current SC2 scene in a sense that I didn't feel the other three casters knew much about the players accomplishments and styles other than their own interaction with them. Or to put it more simply, the other three guys there seemed like they don't watch SC2 top level competitive tournaments unless they are directly involved with it.
Also to the point where Day9 is overly positive about players even if they play poorly, I get the sense they Day9 really enjoys the game for the game. He likes to see weird builds regardless of if it's viable competitively or just a really terrible odd strat. He doesn't think of the competitive side of theorycrafting where just because something is possible doesn't mean its ever going to work against a good player. So when he sees abnormal strategies that are uncommon because they don't actually work, he still gets excited during his casts. An example is if you saw the Stephano interview at the beginning of the tournament when Day9 asked about the mass queen to infuse late game strat. Stephano was visibly confused because that doesn't make sense and no one at a high level is doing that so the question really seemed to come out of left field.
Day9 really enjoys the theory involved in SC2 and it shows through in his casting which is fine but I think the problem is he doesn't add competitive viability into the theory. So he doesn't always see bad play as bad play when hes casting because he isn't thinking competitively, he sees it as interesting.
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Just wanted to leave a big thanks for the last episode. It was really enjoyable :D
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I stopped watching and playing SC2 and for some reason I came into this thread, and obviously the topic at hand is complete and nonsensical drama as always. Man, the SC2 community really likes their drama.
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On May 29 2012 02:43 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:41 dragonborn wrote:On May 28 2012 22:58 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 22:32 FuzzyJAM wrote:On May 28 2012 22:02 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 17:23 farnham wrote:
day9 needs to apologize to the scene or leave the scene after this debacle with last shadow
he got in a player that has no (positive record) and let him into poolplay with players like parting or squirtle
last shadow lost every match he played and left the tournament in a bm manner because he didnt "feel well".
did mvp feel well with his injured wrist when he won gsl against squirtle last week? probably not.
day 9 got in a player that doesnt fit the criteria of "one of the best players in the world" and he needs to feel responsible for this . the last time an invite like this was done was probably lucifron in dreamhack valencia but that was to appeal to the local crowd. this time there is no real reason outside that lastshadow seems to be a friend of day 9 Day9 doesn't "need" to do anything. Acquire a grasp on reality, please. It's just a game and LS playing and failing isn't important enough to demand anybody's head on the block. Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion didn't exactly have extremely impressive runs either (perfectly understandable results given the level of competition), but no one is getting upset about this - but that's because we've collectively decided to like Sheth or whatever. I had my fair share of schadenfreude when LS went 0-3 as well, because that's just human nature, but this LS/Day9 nepotism witchhunt that Incontrol is partially responsible for just shows how dumb and single minded this community is. Get over it. Being OK with Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion might have more to do with the fact that they're actually known players who have at least had some success. It makes sense if you want to have foreigners (and assuming you don't get whoever you want) to go with them. LastShadow hasn't done anything impressive ever and hadn't even been seen for about a year. Vastly different. OstojiyAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-06-17 Toronto Quest for the Best Ostojiy 3 : 1 IefNaij 2011-06-12 US Go4SC2 Cup #64 Ostojiy 2 : 1 daisuki 2011-05-15 US Go4SC2 Cup #56 Ostojiy 3 : 0 LuckyFool 2011-04-30 US CraftCup #31 Ostojiy 1 : 3 SungpA LastShadowAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-11-06 NESC2 League Season 2 LastShadow 2 : 3 Boyo 2011-07-02 NA ZOTAC Cup #8 LastShadow 3 : 0 HongUn 2011-05-21 NA ZOTAC Cup #2 LastShadow 3 : 2 rsvp 2011-04-17 NESC2 League Season 1 LastShadow 3 : 1 Ryan 2011-04-15 IG Cup #6 LastShadow 4 : 3 Warden 2010 Date Event Result 2010-08-28 MLG Raleigh LastShadow 0 : 2 Socke 2010-08-15 NVIDIA GosuCup US Qualifier #1 LastShadow 3 : 1 HayprO So how does Ostojiy get out of a 0-3 unremarked upon, while LS gets hounded, while idiots are demanding Day9's retirement because of LS' performance? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/Championshiplook at results from Ostojiy, thank you. yes, and..? He still went unceremoniously 0-3 in his group. The issue isn't that Ostojiy doesn't have merit - he does. It's that people claim LS has none, when in terms of meaningful tournament placements, they're pretty much equal
Well my feelings on the matter is that whether you feel LS deserved it as much as some of the other players or not, you cannot compare any of the other players at that tournament to LS after its all said and done. Ya Ostojiy went 0-3 sure, but Ostojiy put up a fight,Ostojiy took full advantage of the opportunity and Ostojiy didn't quit.
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Hope JP can make this an excuse to drag Day9 onto the show >.>
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On May 29 2012 02:53 Recognizable wrote:
I stopped watching and playing SC2 and for some reason I came into this thread, and obviously the topic at hand is complete and nonsensical drama as always. Man, the SC2 community really likes their drama.
No drama, its a forum. What better place to discuss SC2? 
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On May 29 2012 02:43 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:41 dragonborn wrote:On May 28 2012 22:58 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 22:32 FuzzyJAM wrote:On May 28 2012 22:02 Quotidian wrote:On May 28 2012 17:23 farnham wrote:
day9 needs to apologize to the scene or leave the scene after this debacle with last shadow
he got in a player that has no (positive record) and let him into poolplay with players like parting or squirtle
last shadow lost every match he played and left the tournament in a bm manner because he didnt "feel well".
did mvp feel well with his injured wrist when he won gsl against squirtle last week? probably not.
day 9 got in a player that doesnt fit the criteria of "one of the best players in the world" and he needs to feel responsible for this . the last time an invite like this was done was probably lucifron in dreamhack valencia but that was to appeal to the local crowd. this time there is no real reason outside that lastshadow seems to be a friend of day 9 Day9 doesn't "need" to do anything. Acquire a grasp on reality, please. It's just a game and LS playing and failing isn't important enough to demand anybody's head on the block. Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion didn't exactly have extremely impressive runs either (perfectly understandable results given the level of competition), but no one is getting upset about this - but that's because we've collectively decided to like Sheth or whatever. I had my fair share of schadenfreude when LS went 0-3 as well, because that's just human nature, but this LS/Day9 nepotism witchhunt that Incontrol is partially responsible for just shows how dumb and single minded this community is. Get over it. Being OK with Sheth, Ostojiy, Thorzain or Illusion might have more to do with the fact that they're actually known players who have at least had some success. It makes sense if you want to have foreigners (and assuming you don't get whoever you want) to go with them. LastShadow hasn't done anything impressive ever and hadn't even been seen for about a year. Vastly different. OstojiyAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-06-17 Toronto Quest for the Best Ostojiy 3 : 1 IefNaij 2011-06-12 US Go4SC2 Cup #64 Ostojiy 2 : 1 daisuki 2011-05-15 US Go4SC2 Cup #56 Ostojiy 3 : 0 LuckyFool 2011-04-30 US CraftCup #31 Ostojiy 1 : 3 SungpA LastShadowAchievements 2011 Date Event Result 2011-11-06 NESC2 League Season 2 LastShadow 2 : 3 Boyo 2011-07-02 NA ZOTAC Cup #8 LastShadow 3 : 0 HongUn 2011-05-21 NA ZOTAC Cup #2 LastShadow 3 : 2 rsvp 2011-04-17 NESC2 League Season 1 LastShadow 3 : 1 Ryan 2011-04-15 IG Cup #6 LastShadow 4 : 3 Warden 2010 Date Event Result 2010-08-28 MLG Raleigh LastShadow 0 : 2 Socke 2010-08-15 NVIDIA GosuCup US Qualifier #1 LastShadow 3 : 1 HayprO So how does Ostojiy get out of a 0-3 unremarked upon, while LS gets hounded, while idiots are demanding Day9's retirement because of LS' performance? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/Championshiplook at results from Ostojiy, thank you. yes, and..? He still went unceremoniously 0-3 in his group. The issue isn't that Ostojiy doesn't have merit - he does. It's that people claim LS has none, when in terms of meaningful tournament placements, they're pretty much equal
and? he have results in 2012.This guy qualified for pool play, which is quite hard. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/Championship/Open_Bracket
Here is the results from MLG columbus 2011, ajtls is lastshadow. http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-columbus-starcraft2-open.html (lastshadow's last MLG)
some notable results from Ostojiy in 2012:
2-1 vs Golden(MLG)
2-1 vs PuMa(MLG)
2-1 vs MorroW(MLG)
2-1 vs KiWiKaKi(MLG)
2-1 vs Naama(MLG)
2-0 vs HayprO (MLG)
2-1 vs Moon(EGMC)
at least Ostojiy deserved this invite with his results in 2012.
and results from lastshadow? your turn.
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On May 29 2012 02:56 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:53 Recognizable wrote:
I stopped watching and playing SC2 and for some reason I came into this thread, and obviously the topic at hand is complete and nonsensical drama as always. Man, the SC2 community really likes their drama. No drama, its a forum. What better place to discuss SC2?
yeah it's not like anybody was upset about the whole LS schtitch anyways.
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On May 29 2012 02:53 Recognizable wrote:
I stopped watching and playing SC2 and for some reason I came into this thread, and obviously the topic at hand is complete and nonsensical drama as always. Man, the SC2 community really likes their drama.
You know, instead of trying to stir more drama you could also just give it a rest and say nothing at all. Just saying.
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On May 29 2012 02:18 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 21:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 21:41 Dalavita wrote:On May 28 2012 19:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Day9's rapidly declining casting skills are more of an issue than his nepotism for me. What is declining with his casting skills? His game knowledge is poor these days. He consistantly overemphasises things which aren't important. He overhypes everything to the point of insulting the intelligence of the viewers (if the supply is 200 vs 70 the game is over Sean, stop shouting). He is extremely biased towards foreign players His knowledge of players (especially Koreans) is really poor, he doesn't know which tournaments they've done well and doesn't know their best matchups or the styles they favour. He is extremely positive about players even as they play really poorly and especially when foreigners play he will never call a spade a spade. The standard of casters in general is so poor compared with mainstream sports. It's unbelievable that so many casters don't know how players they're casting play or their strengths and weaknesses. What an excellent post. About a year ago, like at the first MLG Columbus, I thought Day9 was really great and a quality caster. However, he seemingly just started to go down hill until I got frustrated watching him. His constant harps on things that seemingly shouldn't matter (forgetting adrenal upgrade as soon as hive finishes, not re-powering gateways the instant the pylon goes down, etc) and his over enthusiasm is incredibly offsetting. Plus it doesn't help he actually has people filter his criticism.
Well considering useless criticism like your post or the one you responded to I think it is good he has people to filter it.
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Holy shit I just noticed that I posted on the 1st page on this thread.
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On May 29 2012 02:46 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:18 Apollo_Shards wrote:On May 28 2012 21:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 21:41 Dalavita wrote:On May 28 2012 19:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Day9's rapidly declining casting skills are more of an issue than his nepotism for me. What is declining with his casting skills? His game knowledge is poor these days. He consistantly overemphasises things which aren't important. He overhypes everything to the point of insulting the intelligence of the viewers (if the supply is 200 vs 70 the game is over Sean, stop shouting). He is extremely biased towards foreign players His knowledge of players (especially Koreans) is really poor, he doesn't know which tournaments they've done well and doesn't know their best matchups or the styles they favour. He is extremely positive about players even as they play really poorly and especially when foreigners play he will never call a spade a spade. The standard of casters in general is so poor compared with mainstream sports. It's unbelievable that so many casters don't know how players they're casting play or their strengths and weaknesses. What an excellent post. About a year ago, like at the first MLG Columbus, I thought Day9 was really great and a quality caster. However, he seemingly just started to go down hill until I got frustrated watching him. His constant harps on things that seemingly shouldn't matter (forgetting adrenal upgrade as soon as hive finishes, not re-powering gateways the instant the pylon goes down, etc) and his over enthusiasm is incredibly offsetting. Plus it doesn't help he actually has people filter his criticism. Ya I made the comment during the red bull battleground that I felt that DJ Wheat was the only caster there who had a finger on the pulse of the current SC2 scene in a sense that I didn't feel the other three casters knew much about the players accomplishments and styles other than their own interaction with them. Or to put it more simply, the other three guys there seemed like they don't watch SC2 top level competitive tournaments unless they are directly involved with it. Also to the point where Day9 is overly positive about players even if they play poorly, I get the sense they Day9 really enjoys the game for the game. He likes to see weird builds regardless of if it's viable competitively or just a really terrible odd strat. He doesn't think of the competitive side of theorycrafting where just because something is possible doesn't mean its ever going to work against a good player. So when he sees abnormal strategies that are uncommon because they don't actually work, he still gets excited during his casts. An example is if you saw the Stephano interview at the beginning of the tournament when Day9 asked about the mass queen to infuse late game strat. Stephano was visibly confused because that doesn't make sense and no one at a high level is doing that so the question really seemed to come out of left field. Day9 really enjoys the theory involved in SC2 and it shows through in his casting which is fine but I think the problem is he doesn't add competitive viability into the theory. So he doesn't always see bad play as bad play when hes casting because he isn't thinking competitively, he sees it as interesting.
I would agree that your description has some merit, but highly exaggerated. Maybe he sees it as interesting because he sees it having interesting aspects for competitive play. There is a lot of stuff that are probably viable in this game that noone considers now. And it is far from true he just loves every weird thing. He quite often criticizes plays.
As for the Stephano thing, I think they misunderstood each other, or specifically Stephano probably meant some extreme mass queen whereas I think Day9 meant just slightly more queens than normal.
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I don't think there are any good arguments against getting some underdogs into a tournament, even if only as cannon fodder for group play. But there are good arguments to be made against considering LS as one of them, who has conducted himself in a most abhorrent and regrettable fashion.
What I want to know is: did he accept the $500 for last place? I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he also forfeited his attendance prize, because how could you take that and not even play all your games? That would be a disgusting thing to do.
I'll also give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the mask was because he was very ill and that the player intro videos were shot hours before hand and that it was not the indictment of laughable pretentiousness I would otherwise have believed it to be.
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On May 29 2012 03:27 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:46 takingbackoj wrote:On May 29 2012 02:18 Apollo_Shards wrote:On May 28 2012 21:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 21:41 Dalavita wrote:On May 28 2012 19:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Day9's rapidly declining casting skills are more of an issue than his nepotism for me. What is declining with his casting skills? His game knowledge is poor these days. He consistantly overemphasises things which aren't important. He overhypes everything to the point of insulting the intelligence of the viewers (if the supply is 200 vs 70 the game is over Sean, stop shouting). He is extremely biased towards foreign players His knowledge of players (especially Koreans) is really poor, he doesn't know which tournaments they've done well and doesn't know their best matchups or the styles they favour. He is extremely positive about players even as they play really poorly and especially when foreigners play he will never call a spade a spade. The standard of casters in general is so poor compared with mainstream sports. It's unbelievable that so many casters don't know how players they're casting play or their strengths and weaknesses. What an excellent post. About a year ago, like at the first MLG Columbus, I thought Day9 was really great and a quality caster. However, he seemingly just started to go down hill until I got frustrated watching him. His constant harps on things that seemingly shouldn't matter (forgetting adrenal upgrade as soon as hive finishes, not re-powering gateways the instant the pylon goes down, etc) and his over enthusiasm is incredibly offsetting. Plus it doesn't help he actually has people filter his criticism. Ya I made the comment during the red bull battleground that I felt that DJ Wheat was the only caster there who had a finger on the pulse of the current SC2 scene in a sense that I didn't feel the other three casters knew much about the players accomplishments and styles other than their own interaction with them. Or to put it more simply, the other three guys there seemed like they don't watch SC2 top level competitive tournaments unless they are directly involved with it. Also to the point where Day9 is overly positive about players even if they play poorly, I get the sense they Day9 really enjoys the game for the game. He likes to see weird builds regardless of if it's viable competitively or just a really terrible odd strat. He doesn't think of the competitive side of theorycrafting where just because something is possible doesn't mean its ever going to work against a good player. So when he sees abnormal strategies that are uncommon because they don't actually work, he still gets excited during his casts. An example is if you saw the Stephano interview at the beginning of the tournament when Day9 asked about the mass queen to infuse late game strat. Stephano was visibly confused because that doesn't make sense and no one at a high level is doing that so the question really seemed to come out of left field. Day9 really enjoys the theory involved in SC2 and it shows through in his casting which is fine but I think the problem is he doesn't add competitive viability into the theory. So he doesn't always see bad play as bad play when hes casting because he isn't thinking competitively, he sees it as interesting. I would agree that your description has some merit, but highly exaggerated. Maybe he sees it as interesting because he sees it having interesting aspects for competitive play. There is a lot of stuff that are probably viable in this game that noone considers now. And it is far from true he just loves every weird thing. He quite often criticizes plays. As for the Stephano thing, I think they misunderstood each other, or specifically Stephano probably meant some extreme mass queen whereas I think Day9 meant just slightly more queens than normal.
Ya I should have specified that he isn't incapable of understanding bad play and that not every strange strat is dumb.
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On May 29 2012 00:44 Liquid`NonY wrote:
The debate shouldn't be about the particular players that were invited. The debate should be about whether these type of "wild card" players should be invited at all. If we do accept unproven players for the unique benefits they provide to the lineup then we must also accept that sometimes they will get decimated. It isn't a mistake in retrospect when players like LS and Ostojiy go 0-3. I think everyone would be extremely grateful to Day[9] and Red Bull if they catapulted a new and interesting player into prominence. But if that happened, it doesn't mean they'd then double the amount of unproven players they invite. Just like the opposite doesn't mean they remove all unproven players from future Battlegrounds.
Some people view invitationals as barriers for new players because "the same people get invited every time." In that case, popular players who the educated minority know don't deserve a spot still get spots to please the majority. Red Bull Battlegrounds does the opposite. There is some educated minority that knows certain players are on the verge of a breakthrough and they just need a few chances. The majority will wonder why the hell these random guys got invites over their more proven favorite player.
Invitationals purposely tend toward one of those two directions while also inviting the best players or they just invite the best players. None of the three ways is the correct way to do it. They'll run the kind of event they want to run. But if the community felt strongly enough one way or the other, it could force their hand. Personally I like a bit of every type of event.
Red Bull Battlegrounds was like a more restricted tennis tournament. There are always invites (i.e. wild cards) on tennis tournaments and no one is bitching about that, because they usually are for players that everyone wants to see of for players that have some interest in having them there (in tennis it's usually some players from the local country).
A wild card isn't a way to get undeserving people into a tournament, people will prove their worth one way or another when they face the other players. I seriously don't see what's the big deal about wild cards.
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Just wanted to leave a big thanks for the last epsisode. It was a really good show with right chemistry between fun and serious discussion of the game. Also great guests.
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I made an account to say how much I enjoy State of the Game, especially the last one. Even if I disagree with Geoff sometimes, I really enjoy him being on the show consistently. I hope Day[9] is able to make it on to discuss Red Bull Battlegrounds, and his overall impression of how it went.
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On May 29 2012 03:49 Positronic wrote:
I made an account to say how much I enjoy State of the Game, especially the last one. Even if I disagree with Geoff sometimes, I really enjoy him being on the show consistently. I hope Day[9] is able to make it on to discuss Red Bull Battlegrounds, and his overall impression of how it went.
I too would love to hear Day9 talk about his experiences with Red Bull so far.
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EPT
