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On April 25 2012 03:36 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:27 msl wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You don't get it, do you? There are no "bigger" fans, there are just fans with different priorities or different preferences for different aspects of the SC2. If you want to talk abou the "bigness" of a fan, it would arguably be measured by level of entusiasm, not which aspects entuses you. Assuming your preferences are the one true faith that defines a "true" fan makes you look a bit arrogant at best. Also: Prefacing your opinion with "unarguably" doesn't make it so. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are not "aspects" of sc2. "I am a fan of sc2". What in the world can we take this to mean? As far as I know sc2 is a game made by Blizzard entertainment. I'm pretty sure Starcraft isn't well dressed hosts, nor an enthusiastic crowd, nor good storylines. Funny huh? All these are things that happen around sc2, but they are not sc2. If you enjoy these things more than watching/playing sc2 itself you'd do better to call yourself a fan of the sc2 scene, or esports, or whatever you may please really. Analytically a "fan of starcraft 2" is just that - a fan of a game, not of glitz and hype.
Sorry, but that does not fly. Starcraft 2 was always intended to be a Esport. Blizzard is actively promoting it as such. It was always intended to not just to be played, but watched by spectators while professionals play it. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are "aspects" of sc2 and are intended to be so by its creators. You're just a gameplay purist with his panties in a twist trying to narrow the definition of something to fit your preferences and exclude others.
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I fail to see why the two components of events need to be mutually exclusive. Everything in life is about obtaining a happy equilibrium between A and B. In the case of Sc2, it's having a mean between high quality games and high production value. Personally, I'm more of a purist (not to the level of Tyler, though) and am mostly in it for the game itself. That said, I wouldn't be watching it if the stream was minuscule and low quality, no matter how great the games were, just because it wouldn't be worth my time.
What pisses me off the most about this argument is that one group (i.e. Tyler) is acting like they're better than the rest, or that they're "truer" fans of Sc2 than the other. You know what? That's bullshit. Being a fan is measured by passion for the game in all its forms. Like it or not, the people who are making NASL and DH and MLG and "glitzy" events happen are the fans who put money into something they're passionate about. They care about Sc2 just as much as you do, even if their preferred medium is in person as part of a big crowd at an MLG. Fans of this game are of all different sorts, and all of them are important, because without any one group, the game would die.
You definitely couldn't be a fan of Sc2 without the game itself, but I'm willing to bet a lot of people would never even have heard of the game if not for all the hype and glitz surrounding it, so it seems that a large fanbase is also impossible without a combination of both.
It also baffles me that Tyler, who hasn't posted significant results in a long time, is lambasting others for a lack of passion, when he himself seems to be too busy to practice.
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On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference?
You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world.
Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good?
Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities.
Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players.
Can YOU see the difference?
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On April 25 2012 03:51 msl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:36 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:27 msl wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You don't get it, do you? There are no "bigger" fans, there are just fans with different priorities or different preferences for different aspects of the SC2. If you want to talk abou the "bigness" of a fan, it would arguably be measured by level of entusiasm, not which aspects entuses you. Assuming your preferences are the one true faith that defines a "true" fan makes you look a bit arrogant at best. Also: Prefacing your opinion with "unarguably" doesn't make it so. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are not "aspects" of sc2. "I am a fan of sc2". What in the world can we take this to mean? As far as I know sc2 is a game made by Blizzard entertainment. I'm pretty sure Starcraft isn't well dressed hosts, nor an enthusiastic crowd, nor good storylines. Funny huh? All these are things that happen around sc2, but they are not sc2. If you enjoy these things more than watching/playing sc2 itself you'd do better to call yourself a fan of the sc2 scene, or esports, or whatever you may please really. Analytically a "fan of starcraft 2" is just that - a fan of a game, not of glitz and hype. Sorry, but that does not fly. Starcraft 2 was always intended to be a Esport. Blizzard is actively promoting it as such. It was always intended to not just to be played, but watched by spectators while professionals play it. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are "aspects" of sc2 and are intended to be so by its creators. You're just a gameplay purist with his panties in a twist trying to narrow the definition of something to fit your preferences and exclude others.
Funny you say that when you're trying to twist the very clear cut word "starcraft 2" to include things that have nothing at all to do with it. I honestly can't even wrap my head around what you're trying to say. If you turn on a basketball game and the half time show is on, some cheerleaders intercut with some discussion of how the game is going, are you watching basketball? Surely the makers of basketball intended it to played in such an environment - therefore everything and anything that happens around a basketball game is "basketball"? Words mean things, you can't just use them to signify whatever you want. Starcraft 2 is a GAME, not what happens around the game. Anyone who can't understand something so simple must have alot of trouble with reading comprehension or holding a simple conversation.
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Guess I'm not a 'fan of sc2' since I enjoy watching an enthusiastic crowd, I enjoy watching 'white boys' do well. I'm not petty enough to waste time worrying 'mlg was better than DH , or DH was better than MLG' because I enjoyed both from what I watched of each tournament.
I don't understand where someone (especially someone whose job depends on us watching you 'white boys') gets off talking down to us as if our opinions on what we enjoy somehow make us less intelligent or 'wrong'. Insulting.
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On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference?
Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your fellow countryman, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so
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of course all the europeans (swedes) support dreamhack, while everyone else preferred MLG
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On April 25 2012 04:02 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference? Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your home team, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so
Why not? If i say at that moment that i'm a fan of skeet shooting, who are you to say otherwise? There are no rules, regulations or criteria etc etc to the term fan.
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On April 25 2012 04:04 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:02 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference? Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your home team, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so Why not? If i say at that moment that i'm a fan of skeet shooting, who are you to say otherwise? There are no rules, regulations or criteria etc etc to the term fan.
If you don't believe words have meaning, if you think I can just call myself whatever I want regardless of who I am or what I do, please never never enter arguments.
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On April 25 2012 04:08 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:04 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 04:02 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference? Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your home team, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so Why not? If i say at that moment that i'm a fan of skeet shooting, who are you to say otherwise? There are no rules, regulations or criteria etc etc to the term fan. If you don't believe words have meaning, if you think I can just call myself whatever I want regardless of who I am or what I do, please never never enter arguments.
Anyone can at anytime call themselves a fan of anything they choose. Most of us wont waste time trying to tie our pride to how 'big of a fan' we are to something, and if you do , then I pity you.
"well I'm a bigger fan of BLAH , because I did BLAH, therefor your opinion on the matter is invalid because IM a bigger FAN than you", That is sad.
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On April 25 2012 03:59 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:51 msl wrote:On April 25 2012 03:36 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:27 msl wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You don't get it, do you? There are no "bigger" fans, there are just fans with different priorities or different preferences for different aspects of the SC2. If you want to talk abou the "bigness" of a fan, it would arguably be measured by level of entusiasm, not which aspects entuses you. Assuming your preferences are the one true faith that defines a "true" fan makes you look a bit arrogant at best. Also: Prefacing your opinion with "unarguably" doesn't make it so. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are not "aspects" of sc2. "I am a fan of sc2". What in the world can we take this to mean? As far as I know sc2 is a game made by Blizzard entertainment. I'm pretty sure Starcraft isn't well dressed hosts, nor an enthusiastic crowd, nor good storylines. Funny huh? All these are things that happen around sc2, but they are not sc2. If you enjoy these things more than watching/playing sc2 itself you'd do better to call yourself a fan of the sc2 scene, or esports, or whatever you may please really. Analytically a "fan of starcraft 2" is just that - a fan of a game, not of glitz and hype. Sorry, but that does not fly. Starcraft 2 was always intended to be a Esport. Blizzard is actively promoting it as such. It was always intended to not just to be played, but watched by spectators while professionals play it. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are "aspects" of sc2 and are intended to be so by its creators. You're just a gameplay purist with his panties in a twist trying to narrow the definition of something to fit your preferences and exclude others. Funny you say that when you're trying to twist the very clear cut word "starcraft 2" to include things that have nothing at all to do with it. I honestly can't even wrap my head around what you're trying to say. If you turn on a basketball game and the half time show is on, some cheerleaders intercut with some discussion of how the game is going, are you watching basketball? Surely the makers of basketball intended it to played in such an environment - therefore everything and anything that happens around a basketball game is "basketball"? Words mean things, you can't just use them to signify whatever you want. Starcraft 2 is a GAME, not what happens around the game. Anyone who can't understand something so simple must have alot of trouble with reading comprehension or holding a simple conversation.
Is it relevant? Does being an Sc2 fan mean you can't enjoy a good production themed around Sc2? Does it mean that you can't decide that an amazing production with good games (which is free) is better than a PPV with decent production and great games?
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On April 25 2012 04:08 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:04 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 04:02 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference? Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your home team, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so Why not? If i say at that moment that i'm a fan of skeet shooting, who are you to say otherwise? There are no rules, regulations or criteria etc etc to the term fan. If you don't believe words have meaning, if you think I can just call myself whatever I want regardless of who I am or what I do, please never never enter arguments.
Haha right, ok my friend please tell me and the world the criteria of the term 'fan'.
This will be good or maybe you shouldn't even try, just a friendly advice cause i will rip your arguments apart cause i've been discussing this subject for over 10 years. It's widely common in the football world and i heard it all, so come on kid wipe me under the floor with your overwhelming knowledge about the term fan.
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8751 Posts
On April 25 2012 04:01 Leth0 wrote:
Guess I'm not a 'fan of sc2' since I enjoy watching an enthusiastic crowd, I enjoy watching 'white boys' do well. I'm not petty enough to waste time worrying 'mlg was better than DH , or DH was better than MLG' because I enjoyed both from what I watched of each tournament.
I don't understand where someone (especially someone whose job depends on us watching you 'white boys') gets off talking down to us as if our opinions on what we enjoy somehow make us less intelligent or 'wrong'. Insulting.
You've provided a very poor description of what I said and what my opinions are because you are fucking stupid. There. That's insulting.
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On April 25 2012 04:12 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:08 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 04:04 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 04:02 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference? Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your home team, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so Why not? If i say at that moment that i'm a fan of skeet shooting, who are you to say otherwise? There are no rules, regulations or criteria etc etc to the term fan. If you don't believe words have meaning, if you think I can just call myself whatever I want regardless of who I am or what I do, please never never enter arguments. Anyone can at anytime call themselves a fan of anything they choose. Most of us wont waste time trying to tie our pride to how 'big of a fan' we are to something, and if you do , then I pity you. "well I'm a bigger fan of BLAH , because I did BLAH, therefor your opinion on the matter is invalid because IM a bigger FAN than you", That is sad.
If you don't care about the argument why are you responding? "I pity you" is not an argument. Anyone can call themselves a fan of anything, sure, but are they a fan? Its a valid question. Obviously you don't care about this dispute, but yet you respond. As long as we're feeling sorry for eachother, I think that's kind of sad too.
Anyways I was originally responding to the posts that contended nony wasn't a fan of sc2, that we the REAL fans care about production/hype/everything else. If you have no opinion on the matter thats fine, but don't try to engage in an argument with those who do.
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Stop being huge bitches. Why give a flying fuck about someone else calling himself a fan? What, it reduces your status as a fan? Get the fuck out of here. Bullshit elitism.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference?
We are talking about tournaments here. When I watch replays I try to find the highest level of play I can because that's what I enjoy studying but that doesn't mean I watch tournaments for the same reasons. When I'm watching tournaments I'm interested in entertainment, the story line, the drama and the atmosphere and MLG failed in several of those kinds of aspects. People should stop trying to measure their sc2 dicks and realize you aren't a bigger or better sc2 fan just because you prefer one type of tournament over another.
Your posts just reeks of elitism.
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On April 25 2012 04:22 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:12 Leth0 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:08 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 04:04 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 04:02 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:57 aTak wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You apparently aren't a fotball (soccer) fan. Probably not a regular sports fan either... Because then you would know that most fans are fans of both the sport, but even more so teams. Which in Starcraft would be a player. Most fans follow their team/player first, even though if they are last in their division and suck or best in the world. Me being from Sweden kinda makes Thorzain among other swedes "my team". Therefore I would rather watch his games than the koreans. This also goes for fotball. I would watch Malmö FF everytime instead of Barcelona if they played at the same time. Does that make me less of av fan because my team isn't as good? Of course this doesn't mean that I don't like watching the best aswell, of course I do. It's just a matter of priorities. Doesn't matter if MLG would have had the better production value, I would still have watched Dreamhack. Because I support my team, I support my players. Can YOU see the difference? Obviously hometeam attachment has a large place in sports, but it should never overshadow the game itself. If you hear your country has a gold medal contender in some random olympic sport, say skeet shooting, and you watch that skeet shooting match intensely to root for your home team, does that make you a skeet shooting fan? I don't think so Why not? If i say at that moment that i'm a fan of skeet shooting, who are you to say otherwise? There are no rules, regulations or criteria etc etc to the term fan. If you don't believe words have meaning, if you think I can just call myself whatever I want regardless of who I am or what I do, please never never enter arguments. Anyone can at anytime call themselves a fan of anything they choose. Most of us wont waste time trying to tie our pride to how 'big of a fan' we are to something, and if you do , then I pity you. "well I'm a bigger fan of BLAH , because I did BLAH, therefor your opinion on the matter is invalid because IM a bigger FAN than you", That is sad. If you don't care about the argument why are you responding? "I pity you" is not an argument. Anyone can call themselves a fan of anything, sure, but are they a fan? Its a valid question. Obviously you don't care about this dispute, but yet you respond. As long as we're feeling sorry for eachother, I think that's kind of sad too.
It's actually not a valid question.
"Well he says he's a fan of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, BUT IS HE? He hasn't even tried the chunky peanut butter spread? I question his true ability to be a fan of peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches"
On what precedence do you give yourself the right to question who and who is not a fan of something?
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On April 25 2012 03:59 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:51 msl wrote:On April 25 2012 03:36 sickoota wrote:On April 25 2012 03:27 msl wrote:On April 25 2012 03:06 sickoota wrote:
Whose a bigger fan of soccer? Someone who will only watch the big, spectacle of a finals with their hometown team or someone who would be thrilled to watch Barcelona and Inter play on a highschool football field with 20 spectators in the bleachers? Nony is unarguably more of an sc2 fan than those who watch tournaments just for the production value. He is a fan of sc2, you are a fan what goes on around sc2. See the difference? You don't get it, do you? There are no "bigger" fans, there are just fans with different priorities or different preferences for different aspects of the SC2. If you want to talk abou the "bigness" of a fan, it would arguably be measured by level of entusiasm, not which aspects entuses you. Assuming your preferences are the one true faith that defines a "true" fan makes you look a bit arrogant at best. Also: Prefacing your opinion with "unarguably" doesn't make it so. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are not "aspects" of sc2. "I am a fan of sc2". What in the world can we take this to mean? As far as I know sc2 is a game made by Blizzard entertainment. I'm pretty sure Starcraft isn't well dressed hosts, nor an enthusiastic crowd, nor good storylines. Funny huh? All these are things that happen around sc2, but they are not sc2. If you enjoy these things more than watching/playing sc2 itself you'd do better to call yourself a fan of the sc2 scene, or esports, or whatever you may please really. Analytically a "fan of starcraft 2" is just that - a fan of a game, not of glitz and hype. Sorry, but that does not fly. Starcraft 2 was always intended to be a Esport. Blizzard is actively promoting it as such. It was always intended to not just to be played, but watched by spectators while professionals play it. Light shows, energetic hosts and big crowds are "aspects" of sc2 and are intended to be so by its creators. You're just a gameplay purist with his panties in a twist trying to narrow the definition of something to fit your preferences and exclude others. Funny you say that when you're trying to twist the very clear cut word "starcraft 2" to include things that have nothing at all to do with it. I honestly can't even wrap my head around what you're trying to say. If you turn on a basketball game and the half time show is on, some cheerleaders intercut with some discussion of how the game is going, are you watching basketball? Surely the makers of basketball intended it to played in such an environment - therefore everything and anything that happens around a basketball game is "basketball"? Words mean things, you can't just use them to signify whatever you want. Starcraft 2 is a GAME, not what happens around the game. Anyone who can't understand something so simple must have alot of trouble with reading comprehension or holding a simple conversation.
The fact that the majority of people disagree with you about the definition of the word "fan" would seem to indicate that you would be the one who would have trouble with reading comprehension or holding a simple conversation.
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On April 25 2012 04:21 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:01 Leth0 wrote:
Guess I'm not a 'fan of sc2' since I enjoy watching an enthusiastic crowd, I enjoy watching 'white boys' do well. I'm not petty enough to waste time worrying 'mlg was better than DH , or DH was better than MLG' because I enjoyed both from what I watched of each tournament.
I don't understand where someone (especially someone whose job depends on us watching you 'white boys') gets off talking down to us as if our opinions on what we enjoy somehow make us less intelligent or 'wrong'. Insulting. You've provided a very poor description of what I said and what my opinions are because you are fucking stupid. There. That's insulting.
I wont lower myself to petty insults. Stay classy tyler.
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On April 25 2012 04:21 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:01 Leth0 wrote:
Guess I'm not a 'fan of sc2' since I enjoy watching an enthusiastic crowd, I enjoy watching 'white boys' do well. I'm not petty enough to waste time worrying 'mlg was better than DH , or DH was better than MLG' because I enjoyed both from what I watched of each tournament.
I don't understand where someone (especially someone whose job depends on us watching you 'white boys') gets off talking down to us as if our opinions on what we enjoy somehow make us less intelligent or 'wrong'. Insulting. You've provided a very poor description of what I said and what my opinions are because you are fucking stupid. There. That's insulting.
Excellent form: when someone disagrees with you, accuse them of strawmanning you and deride their intelligence. No need to point out their errors in reasoning, or anything.
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EPT
