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Great show guys. You guys do know that SotG is the best show in all of e-Sports, right?
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On October 19 2011 15:42 ForeverSleep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 15:26 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 15:07 ketomai wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. It's not like the whining is baseless...the past 2 gsl's alone should show you Terran dominance. In addition, it's not only the people on SotG, but many koreans that complain about Terran. Even fucking Bisu, who doesn't play sc2 knows that the general consensus is that Terran is the strongest at the moment. Telling them to "switch races" is even more silly. No one is going to waste all the time they've invested in their race hoping that Blizzard doesn't ever touch terran again. I don't think I remember one instance of a well known sc2 player switching from the underpowered race to the overpowered one in the history of the game. the problems with using GSL (Code S) as a metric for anything is that the structure of that tournament is deeply flawed. There are a lot of protoss players inbetween code A and S, but it's hard to get into/drop out of Code S because of how the up and down matches work. The problems with the GSL aren't indicative of the problems of the game as a whole, because clearly protoss players can win tournaments. And no, it's perfectly fair to tell a pro to switch races. It's their job to win games - do whatever it takes. It's not like the differences between playing terran or protoss is that big anyway. And any toss that switches will have a really deep understanding of tvp. On October 19 2011 15:25 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. that's a nice option...throw away 1 year of practice and go play terran or zerg!!!!! And I don't get how there can be little truth to what they say, when the facts are pretty much in everyone's faces (see gsl, for exemple, where terran 1/1/1 you and 1 protoss on 10 holds it, that of fakes a 1/1/1 and just proceeds to econ , so you see the protoss frantically trying to defend it then finds out he put himself behind when the push was never to come in the first place . Oh and gsl is also the place where there are more twice as many terrans as there are protoss and zerg combined). That, and the fact that they understand the game more than you do (considering they play it every days, 8 hours a day). You seem to be forgetting that one of the reasons there are so few protoss players in code S is because protoss is struggling (more) in pvz than pvt I actually assume that pvz troubles are due to metagame shift right now. It's has not been that long since pvz became heavily zerg favored. pvt troubles have been going on for ever now... its been what? 2 months now? 3 months? You can't be seriously telling me that it's normal that the games still look exactly the same as they were 3 months ago, that absolutely noone found anything at all... If you talk to me balance at my level, I would tell you that I never lost a match to "imbalance" because, well, I make a shitton of mistakes when I play. But, as a spectator point of view, watching the same games unfold games after games after games does make you wonder, at some point...
Or "try more doors", as Zerg has been told over and over again. Or another popular advice back then "learn micro"
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On October 19 2011 15:47 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 15:42 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:26 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 15:07 ketomai wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. It's not like the whining is baseless...the past 2 gsl's alone should show you Terran dominance. In addition, it's not only the people on SotG, but many koreans that complain about Terran. Even fucking Bisu, who doesn't play sc2 knows that the general consensus is that Terran is the strongest at the moment. Telling them to "switch races" is even more silly. No one is going to waste all the time they've invested in their race hoping that Blizzard doesn't ever touch terran again. I don't think I remember one instance of a well known sc2 player switching from the underpowered race to the overpowered one in the history of the game. the problems with using GSL (Code S) as a metric for anything is that the structure of that tournament is deeply flawed. There are a lot of protoss players inbetween code A and S, but it's hard to get into/drop out of Code S because of how the up and down matches work. The problems with the GSL aren't indicative of the problems of the game as a whole, because clearly protoss players can win tournaments. And no, it's perfectly fair to tell a pro to switch races. It's their job to win games - do whatever it takes. It's not like the differences between playing terran or protoss is that big anyway. And any toss that switches will have a really deep understanding of tvp. On October 19 2011 15:25 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. that's a nice option...throw away 1 year of practice and go play terran or zerg!!!!! And I don't get how there can be little truth to what they say, when the facts are pretty much in everyone's faces (see gsl, for exemple, where terran 1/1/1 you and 1 protoss on 10 holds it, that of fakes a 1/1/1 and just proceeds to econ , so you see the protoss frantically trying to defend it then finds out he put himself behind when the push was never to come in the first place . Oh and gsl is also the place where there are more twice as many terrans as there are protoss and zerg combined). That, and the fact that they understand the game more than you do (considering they play it every days, 8 hours a day). You seem to be forgetting that one of the reasons there are so few protoss players in code S is because protoss is struggling (more) in pvz than pvt I actually assume that pvz troubles are due to metagame shift right now. It's has not been that long since pvz became heavily zerg favored. pvt troubles have been going on for ever now... its been what? 2 months now? 3 months? You can't be seriously telling me that it's normal that the games still look exactly the same as they were 3 months ago, that absolutely noone found anything at all... If you talk to me balance at my level, I would tell you that I never lost a match to "imbalance" because, well, I make a shitton of mistakes when I play. But, as a spectator point of view, watching the same games unfold games after games after games does make you wonder, at some point... Or "try more doors", as Zerg has been told over and over again. Or another popular advice back then "learn micro"
It's no shock that when 2 races are running up hill with extra weight on their back for upwards of a year, whilst 1 race just grabs a taxi.. that the fat boy in the taxi is going to have a harder time, long term with keeping up in a race.
Disturbingly broken metaphors aside, protoss players that didn't spend 12 months relying on A moving zealots and colossus seem to be doing quite well right now (huk?)
Compared to the madness that is bio spreading/splitting/emping and macroing out of multiple short-cycle production buildings, Protoss had relatively little to do to stay competitive.
From a protoss players perspective.. those Toss who take on a little extra seem to be doing well.
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Anyone know the name of the sports psychology book IdrA was talking about during ITG?
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On October 19 2011 15:55 Scrimpton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 15:47 rotegirte wrote:On October 19 2011 15:42 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:26 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 15:07 ketomai wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. It's not like the whining is baseless...the past 2 gsl's alone should show you Terran dominance. In addition, it's not only the people on SotG, but many koreans that complain about Terran. Even fucking Bisu, who doesn't play sc2 knows that the general consensus is that Terran is the strongest at the moment. Telling them to "switch races" is even more silly. No one is going to waste all the time they've invested in their race hoping that Blizzard doesn't ever touch terran again. I don't think I remember one instance of a well known sc2 player switching from the underpowered race to the overpowered one in the history of the game. the problems with using GSL (Code S) as a metric for anything is that the structure of that tournament is deeply flawed. There are a lot of protoss players inbetween code A and S, but it's hard to get into/drop out of Code S because of how the up and down matches work. The problems with the GSL aren't indicative of the problems of the game as a whole, because clearly protoss players can win tournaments. And no, it's perfectly fair to tell a pro to switch races. It's their job to win games - do whatever it takes. It's not like the differences between playing terran or protoss is that big anyway. And any toss that switches will have a really deep understanding of tvp. On October 19 2011 15:25 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. that's a nice option...throw away 1 year of practice and go play terran or zerg!!!!! And I don't get how there can be little truth to what they say, when the facts are pretty much in everyone's faces (see gsl, for exemple, where terran 1/1/1 you and 1 protoss on 10 holds it, that of fakes a 1/1/1 and just proceeds to econ , so you see the protoss frantically trying to defend it then finds out he put himself behind when the push was never to come in the first place . Oh and gsl is also the place where there are more twice as many terrans as there are protoss and zerg combined). That, and the fact that they understand the game more than you do (considering they play it every days, 8 hours a day). You seem to be forgetting that one of the reasons there are so few protoss players in code S is because protoss is struggling (more) in pvz than pvt I actually assume that pvz troubles are due to metagame shift right now. It's has not been that long since pvz became heavily zerg favored. pvt troubles have been going on for ever now... its been what? 2 months now? 3 months? You can't be seriously telling me that it's normal that the games still look exactly the same as they were 3 months ago, that absolutely noone found anything at all... If you talk to me balance at my level, I would tell you that I never lost a match to "imbalance" because, well, I make a shitton of mistakes when I play. But, as a spectator point of view, watching the same games unfold games after games after games does make you wonder, at some point... Or "try more doors", as Zerg has been told over and over again. Or another popular advice back then "learn micro" It's no shock that when 2 races are running up hill with extra weight on their back for upwards of a year, whilst 1 race just grabs a taxi.. that the fat boy in the taxi is going to have a harder time, long term with keeping up in a race. Disturbingly broken metaphors aside, protoss players that didn't spend 12 months relying on A moving zealots and colossus seem to be doing quite well right now (huk?) Compared to the madness that is bio spreading/splitting/emping and macroing out of multiple short-cycle production buildings, Protoss had relatively little to do to stay competitive. From a protoss players perspective.. those Toss who take on a little extra seem to be doing well.
I would like Protoss to be made more difficult to play in exchange for being more competitive. The only way a good Protoss player sets himself apart is micro and some excellent decision making, the macro side of things is a joke.
Look at guys like MVP, Bomber, and Nestea. They all have insane macro that's straight up better than everybody else who plays their respective races. How do expect guys like Huk and MC to separate themselves from the rest of the Protoss pack when theres so little to do.
Make the race more mechanical to be in line with the other races to raise the skill ceiling, and make the race overall stronger. Bad Protoss will be brought down to where they should be, and excellent Protoss will be much better for it. Every race should be equally as demanding to play, and have just as much potential when played well.
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On October 19 2011 16:15 Syth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 15:55 Scrimpton wrote:On October 19 2011 15:47 rotegirte wrote:On October 19 2011 15:42 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:26 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 15:07 ketomai wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. It's not like the whining is baseless...the past 2 gsl's alone should show you Terran dominance. In addition, it's not only the people on SotG, but many koreans that complain about Terran. Even fucking Bisu, who doesn't play sc2 knows that the general consensus is that Terran is the strongest at the moment. Telling them to "switch races" is even more silly. No one is going to waste all the time they've invested in their race hoping that Blizzard doesn't ever touch terran again. I don't think I remember one instance of a well known sc2 player switching from the underpowered race to the overpowered one in the history of the game. the problems with using GSL (Code S) as a metric for anything is that the structure of that tournament is deeply flawed. There are a lot of protoss players inbetween code A and S, but it's hard to get into/drop out of Code S because of how the up and down matches work. The problems with the GSL aren't indicative of the problems of the game as a whole, because clearly protoss players can win tournaments. And no, it's perfectly fair to tell a pro to switch races. It's their job to win games - do whatever it takes. It's not like the differences between playing terran or protoss is that big anyway. And any toss that switches will have a really deep understanding of tvp. On October 19 2011 15:25 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. that's a nice option...throw away 1 year of practice and go play terran or zerg!!!!! And I don't get how there can be little truth to what they say, when the facts are pretty much in everyone's faces (see gsl, for exemple, where terran 1/1/1 you and 1 protoss on 10 holds it, that of fakes a 1/1/1 and just proceeds to econ , so you see the protoss frantically trying to defend it then finds out he put himself behind when the push was never to come in the first place . Oh and gsl is also the place where there are more twice as many terrans as there are protoss and zerg combined). That, and the fact that they understand the game more than you do (considering they play it every days, 8 hours a day). You seem to be forgetting that one of the reasons there are so few protoss players in code S is because protoss is struggling (more) in pvz than pvt I actually assume that pvz troubles are due to metagame shift right now. It's has not been that long since pvz became heavily zerg favored. pvt troubles have been going on for ever now... its been what? 2 months now? 3 months? You can't be seriously telling me that it's normal that the games still look exactly the same as they were 3 months ago, that absolutely noone found anything at all... If you talk to me balance at my level, I would tell you that I never lost a match to "imbalance" because, well, I make a shitton of mistakes when I play. But, as a spectator point of view, watching the same games unfold games after games after games does make you wonder, at some point... Or "try more doors", as Zerg has been told over and over again. Or another popular advice back then "learn micro" It's no shock that when 2 races are running up hill with extra weight on their back for upwards of a year, whilst 1 race just grabs a taxi.. that the fat boy in the taxi is going to have a harder time, long term with keeping up in a race. Disturbingly broken metaphors aside, protoss players that didn't spend 12 months relying on A moving zealots and colossus seem to be doing quite well right now (huk?) Compared to the madness that is bio spreading/splitting/emping and macroing out of multiple short-cycle production buildings, Protoss had relatively little to do to stay competitive. From a protoss players perspective.. those Toss who take on a little extra seem to be doing well. I would like Protoss to be made more difficult to play in exchange for being more competitive. The only way a good Protoss player sets himself apart is micro and some excellent decision making, the macro side of things is a joke. Look at guys like MVP, Bomber, and Nestea. They all have insane macro that's straight up better than everybody else who plays their respective races. How do expect guys like Huk and MC to separate themselves from the rest of the Protoss pack when theres so little to do. Make the race more mechanical to be in line with the other races to raise the skill ceiling, and make the race overall stronger. Bad Protoss will be brought down to where they should be, and excellent Protoss will be much better for it. Every race should be equally as demanding to play, and have just as much potential when played well.
I 100% absolutely agree, and you're the first person on TL to not jump down my throat at the suggestion that bad players were getting carried a little too easily (More importantly, great players weren't being rewarded as much).
I'd love to play and WATCH a variety of protoss that was as mechanically demanding as T, and just as competitive.
right now, even though i play toss, i just dont have the heart to watch Protoss pro games, 2 base all ins or rely on AoE, do enjoy watching air play though, as that seems very demanding and fragile.
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How can I SAVE the mp3 of the most recent SoTG. I can LISTEN to it just fine, but I'd like to save the mp3 to my harddrive and upload it to my iPod so I can listen to it on the go...
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On October 19 2011 16:15 Syth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 15:55 Scrimpton wrote:On October 19 2011 15:47 rotegirte wrote:On October 19 2011 15:42 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:26 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 15:07 ketomai wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. It's not like the whining is baseless...the past 2 gsl's alone should show you Terran dominance. In addition, it's not only the people on SotG, but many koreans that complain about Terran. Even fucking Bisu, who doesn't play sc2 knows that the general consensus is that Terran is the strongest at the moment. Telling them to "switch races" is even more silly. No one is going to waste all the time they've invested in their race hoping that Blizzard doesn't ever touch terran again. I don't think I remember one instance of a well known sc2 player switching from the underpowered race to the overpowered one in the history of the game. the problems with using GSL (Code S) as a metric for anything is that the structure of that tournament is deeply flawed. There are a lot of protoss players inbetween code A and S, but it's hard to get into/drop out of Code S because of how the up and down matches work. The problems with the GSL aren't indicative of the problems of the game as a whole, because clearly protoss players can win tournaments. And no, it's perfectly fair to tell a pro to switch races. It's their job to win games - do whatever it takes. It's not like the differences between playing terran or protoss is that big anyway. And any toss that switches will have a really deep understanding of tvp. On October 19 2011 15:25 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 19 2011 15:02 Quotidian wrote:On October 19 2011 14:47 Oreo7 wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. Full disclosure, I play toss. That said, I think they do a pretty good job filtering their comments considering what protoss has gone through in this past month or 2 months or so. Theirs a huuuge variety of 1/1/1 allins terran can throw, all of which are incredibly frustrating to deal with, and even if doesn't allin, the balance of lategame TvP is questionable, and all of this is evidenced by a lacking presence of protoss in Code S. They really could have gone farther than they did. Btw, Demuslim has admitted more than once that their are problems with terran balance, so I think the relief you're expecting to arrive with a terran host might never come. a lot of terran pros also admit to tvp being their most difficult match-up, so what a pro here and a pro there says makes zero difference. SOTG has become a toss whine-fest and it's really beyond the point of being cute or funny. It's just sad and pathetic at this point. If terran is so OP, just fucking switch races - they're in it for the wins/money after all. The fact that they're not switching proves that they're just whining and letting off steam and there's little truth to what they're whining about. Everybody whines, but please, do that on your own time. It's already bad enough how a lot of people take anything said on SOTG as gospel, to have people go around thinking terran is vastly superior to the other races is just bad for everybody. that's a nice option...throw away 1 year of practice and go play terran or zerg!!!!! And I don't get how there can be little truth to what they say, when the facts are pretty much in everyone's faces (see gsl, for exemple, where terran 1/1/1 you and 1 protoss on 10 holds it, that of fakes a 1/1/1 and just proceeds to econ , so you see the protoss frantically trying to defend it then finds out he put himself behind when the push was never to come in the first place . Oh and gsl is also the place where there are more twice as many terrans as there are protoss and zerg combined). That, and the fact that they understand the game more than you do (considering they play it every days, 8 hours a day). You seem to be forgetting that one of the reasons there are so few protoss players in code S is because protoss is struggling (more) in pvz than pvt I actually assume that pvz troubles are due to metagame shift right now. It's has not been that long since pvz became heavily zerg favored. pvt troubles have been going on for ever now... its been what? 2 months now? 3 months? You can't be seriously telling me that it's normal that the games still look exactly the same as they were 3 months ago, that absolutely noone found anything at all... If you talk to me balance at my level, I would tell you that I never lost a match to "imbalance" because, well, I make a shitton of mistakes when I play. But, as a spectator point of view, watching the same games unfold games after games after games does make you wonder, at some point... Or "try more doors", as Zerg has been told over and over again. Or another popular advice back then "learn micro" It's no shock that when 2 races are running up hill with extra weight on their back for upwards of a year, whilst 1 race just grabs a taxi.. that the fat boy in the taxi is going to have a harder time, long term with keeping up in a race. Disturbingly broken metaphors aside, protoss players that didn't spend 12 months relying on A moving zealots and colossus seem to be doing quite well right now (huk?) Compared to the madness that is bio spreading/splitting/emping and macroing out of multiple short-cycle production buildings, Protoss had relatively little to do to stay competitive. From a protoss players perspective.. those Toss who take on a little extra seem to be doing well. I would like Protoss to be made more difficult to play in exchange for being more competitive. The only way a good Protoss player sets himself apart is micro and some excellent decision making, the macro side of things is a joke. Look at guys like MVP, Bomber, and Nestea. They all have insane macro that's straight up better than everybody else who plays their respective races. How do expect guys like Huk and MC to separate themselves from the rest of the Protoss pack when theres so little to do. Make the race more mechanical to be in line with the other races to raise the skill ceiling, and make the race overall stronger. Bad Protoss will be brought down to where they should be, and excellent Protoss will be much better for it. Every race should be equally as demanding to play, and have just as much potential when played well.
great post and i agree for the most part. another major issue with protoss stability has been the clusterfuck that is pvp. while they are rarely seen these days due to low toss numbers, pvp has always had so much variance that it completed screwed up the landscape in regards to the best toss players being in code s. it has also been a limiting factor to the "new breed" tosses that are trying to work their ways up. zvz is quite messy as well, but nestea has proven that it indeed has a very high skill ceiling. tvt is probably the most skill dependent matchup in the game.
it also must be pointed out that the game is still quite young and volatile balance-wise. while most would agree that the odds of the game being perfectly balanced are very small, it must be said that nobody is playing any of the races to their full potential right now. mvp is probably the closest, but if he was actually close and terran is indeed overpowered, he would never lose a match. nestea is the best zerg by leaps and bounds but shows flawed play quite often, particularly in zvt. so while the game is almost certainly not perfectly balanced, it can be quite hard to truly assess balance when nobody is utilizing their race to its full potential.
that said, introducing a higher skill ceiling into all of the matchups, even just a bit, would help the pro scene a ton and remove a lot of the volatility. hopefully the 2 expansions and future patches achieve this.
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Honestly just removing dumb units like Collosus Roaches and Marauders and we wouldn't have such a volatile game. when it comes down to it the units in starcraft 2 just dont....do much i guess which doesn't seem the right way to describe it but neither is boring but i just feel the lack of diversity in these "core" units and the fact that they are all way too easy to use (to some extent) just ruins the game and gives us really crappy situations.
Take TvP for example. Terran can either make Marauders and Ghosts and Vikings and win or else they flat out die. A Terran army cannot win without EMP but with it they dominate too hard because the marauder as a core units is just so BS and the need for vikings to take down collosus is just kinda lame I'd rather see a real Terran race that relies more on it's heavy clunky and mechanical ground support rather than vikings.
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On October 19 2011 15:02 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 14:51 Gotmog wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote:
JP seriously bring a Terran on the show for Pete's sake, Even if it's one that can't really speak english like PuMa or something, Hell bring Jinro on or find some way to get BoxeR on or Major or Thorzain or qxc. Someone that isn't intimidated by his Zerg and Protoss teammates like Demuslim or that isn't top class like Painuser.
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show. You actually don't agree with stuff they are saying about Terran ? 0o mind blown! Because 1 sided discussions are interesting....
Very True Sarcasm... but Very True. I'd rather see a Zerg and a Terran on the Show lol But it sucks they're all Protoss.
Artosis why u betray the swarm
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On October 19 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
Deear JP and crew,
Please mention the Korean Weekly Finals. It's got ForGG, Code A slot, and a ton of sick Koreans. It could use some recognition and everyone always says they didn't hear about it cause it was nto on SoTG.
VODs? Where?
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On October 19 2011 16:32 eLe.Long wrote:
How can I SAVE the mp3 of the most recent SoTG. I can LISTEN to it just fine, but I'd like to save the mp3 to my harddrive and upload it to my iPod so I can listen to it on the go...
http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/2011/10/sotg-ep53.html
Click the link, right click at "SotG - EP53", save
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I assume no VoDs (with picture) yet?
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I'm really surprised how it's suddenly okay to state how much more forgiving (but also how much less rewarding) Protoss macro is. It's definitely true that Protoss has very little at its disposal for a good macro player to distinguish himself with. Likewise the same is true with Zerg and their lack of micro-units (group selecting a bunch of infestors and throwing down fungals barely counts).
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Anyone know if the VoD will be uploaded tonight?
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Hey, is there anything important on VoD that i won't be able to understand if i only listen to mp3 ? 
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On October 19 2011 17:29 hrvoje07 wrote:Hey, is there anything important on VoD that i won't be able to understand if i only listen to mp3 ?
Huk does a lot of funny faces and interacts with a certain animal for a bit. I'd wait until the vod if seeing it now isn't a big deal. It will still be relevant as it comes out the 20th and Blizzcon will start the following day.
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No mention of that Chinese tourney that happened this week end also where Lyn won $23k nor IEM with $5k3 for DRG. otherwise nice show.
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EPT
