On October 19 2011 17:00 Ksi wrote: I'm really surprised how it's suddenly okay to state how much more forgiving (but also how much less rewarding) Protoss macro is. It's definitely true that Protoss has very little at its disposal for a good macro player to distinguish himself with. Likewise the same is true with Zerg and their lack of micro-units (group selecting a bunch of infestors and throwing down fungals barely counts).
There is less individual micro with zerg units simply because it isn't rewarding enough. However, you do see that zerg plays usually play with much more control groups compared to protoss plays. This is because zerg players need to flank often in order to engage favourably whereas protoss players can be stuck to one group syndrome and still be competitive.
On October 19 2011 17:00 Ksi wrote: I'm really surprised how it's suddenly okay to state how much more forgiving (but also how much less rewarding) Protoss macro is. It's definitely true that Protoss has very little at its disposal for a good macro player to distinguish himself with. Likewise the same is true with Zerg and their lack of micro-units (group selecting a bunch of infestors and throwing down fungals barely counts).
Huh. Where did this myth of protoss macro being so easy come into creation?
It makes absolutely no sense.
None at all.
What game are you guys playing/watching?
Also what terran would all you poor souls want? Painuser? The guy so biased that hellions only became an issue after they killed everything in TvT?
edit:
The more control argument was pretty fair with zergs. Look at the top level control of high level zergs and compare it with Pro Tosses. Worlds apart. It was a seriously problem with the foreign mentality of ZvX.
Admittedly the race seems to reward general knowledge a little more than excellent control.
On October 19 2011 17:00 Ksi wrote: I'm really surprised how it's suddenly okay to state how much more forgiving (but also how much less rewarding) Protoss macro is. It's definitely true that Protoss has very little at its disposal for a good macro player to distinguish himself with. Likewise the same is true with Zerg and their lack of micro-units (group selecting a bunch of infestors and throwing down fungals barely counts).
There is less individual micro with zerg units simply because it isn't rewarding enough. However, you do see that zerg plays usually play with much more control groups compared to protoss plays. This is because zerg players need to flank often in order to engage favourably whereas protoss players can be stuck to one group syndrome and still be competitive.
I'm still astonished why Zergs don't spread out their Units before an attack into tanks... Also, Blizzard kinda dropped the ball with the recent NP-nerf. If you compare how micro-intensive Stephanos playstyle in every MU was with Neural Parasite and how he now just masses T1 and Upgrades in every MU, it's kinda disappointing.
@Toss-Macro: Yeah, Toss can't do sth. like add 20 Drones when they see an opportunity or add additional macro-nexi in their main like many Zergs and even Terrans do nowadays, but that's just about how different Races play differently. Chrono-boost is kinda a jack of all trades, master of none, cuz you can speed up macro, upgrades and units, but not as strong as the other races.
What I think Protoss needs to do in the current meta is just try to get up a third and get max probe-saturation as soon as possible and then go for some strong maxed out attack while harrassing with Phoenix, Prism, DT's, Blinkstalkers and speedlot warpins. I also feel the strength of Toss, at least against Zerg, heavily depends on the Map: Is it easy to take a third? Are you able to wall-in well all of your bases (actually one of the most important things in PvZ IMHO, cuz 3-base toss that doesn't have many openings for attacks/ling-runby's is really hard to break as Zerg). I also think they need to do much less 2base timings and use much less voidrays and early DT's, cuz they actually suck nowadays in the early to midgame.
Toss has an incredibly strong lategame: Very strong deathball, 1 more Upgrade which adds to the lategame-strength and warp-ins, so I actually don't know why Toss-players try to attack on less than 3 bases.
On October 19 2011 17:00 Ksi wrote: I'm really surprised how it's suddenly okay to state how much more forgiving (but also how much less rewarding) Protoss macro is. It's definitely true that Protoss has very little at its disposal for a good macro player to distinguish himself with. Likewise the same is true with Zerg and their lack of micro-units (group selecting a bunch of infestors and throwing down fungals barely counts).
There is less individual micro with zerg units simply because it isn't rewarding enough. However, you do see that zerg plays usually play with much more control groups compared to protoss plays. This is because zerg players need to flank often in order to engage favourably whereas protoss players can be stuck to one group syndrome and still be competitive.
I'm still astonished why Zergs don't spread out their Units before an attack into tanks... Also, Blizzard kinda dropped the ball with the recent NP-nerf. If you compare how micro-intensive Stephanos playstyle in every MU was with Neural Parasite and how he now just masses T1 and Upgrades in every MU, it's kinda disappointing.
@Toss-Macro: Yeah, Toss can't do sth. like add 20 Drones when they see an opportunity or add additional macro-nexi in their main like many Zergs and even Terrans do nowadays, but that's just about how different Races play differently. Chrono-boost is kinda a jack of all trades, master of none, cuz you can speed up macro, upgrades and units, but not as strong as the other races.
What I think Protoss needs to do in the current meta is just try to get up a third and get max probe-saturation as soon as possible and then go for some strong maxed out attack while harrassing with Phoenix, Prism, DT's, Blinkstalkers and speedlot warpins. I also feel the strength of Toss, at least against Zerg, heavily depends on the Map: Is it easy to take a third? Are you able to wall-in well all of your bases (actually one of the most important things in PvZ IMHO, cuz 3-base toss that doesn't have many openings for attacks/ling-runby's is really hard to break as Zerg). I also think they need to do much less 2base timings and use much less voidrays and early DT's, cuz they actually suck nowadays in the early to midgame.
Toss has an incredibly strong lategame: Very strong deathball, 1 more Upgrade which adds to the lategame-strength and warp-ins, so I actually don't know why Toss-players try to attack on less than 3 bases.
I think you just described every race in sc2. Get 3 saturated bases, harass, and max out your army..
Am I the only who cannot find where the vods are ? The MLG website is just a mess and it seems there is only the ep52. The blog does not help that much too. Please please enlight me
On October 19 2011 20:37 Merlimoo wrote: Am I the only who cannot find where the vods are ? The MLG website is just a mess and it seems there is only the ep52. The blog does not help that much too. Please please enlight me
Jp said
On October 19 2011 15:19 itmeJP wrote: A wild SotG MP3 appears! VOD by 10/20.
On October 19 2011 20:37 Merlimoo wrote: Am I the only who cannot find where the vods are ? The MLG website is just a mess and it seems there is only the ep52. The blog does not help that much too. Please please enlight me
Jp said
On October 19 2011 15:19 itmeJP wrote: A wild SotG MP3 appears! VOD by 10/20.
On October 19 2011 20:37 Merlimoo wrote: Am I the only who cannot find where the vods are ? The MLG website is just a mess and it seems there is only the ep52. The blog does not help that much too. Please please enlight me
They say that Stephano kept completely calm. But when you watch the VODs. inbetween games (in the finals), when they show Stephano you can actually see his vein in his neck pump blood.
On October 19 2011 14:44 Raiznhell wrote: JP seriously bring a Terran on the show for Pete's sake, Even if it's one that can't really speak english like PuMa or something, Hell bring Jinro on or find some way to get BoxeR on or Major or Thorzain or qxc. Someone that isn't intimidated by his Zerg and Protoss teammates like Demuslim or that isn't top class like Painuser.
It's sad that there's all this Terran hate and it's simply not fair. The show should be made for the entire community not just for Protoss players to gather and QQ for half the show and then only have good quality discussion in the other half of the show.
Agreed Isn't JP Zerg.. Comon man Speak up JP confront those 4 Protoss and say hey ! Protoss OP or something.
Try and argue with the Protoss even though they outnumber you?
Yeah because straight up lying has always worked so well.
If vod is really up tomorrow I'm gonna be really happy, I'm really sick atm so I can't really play so what I do is watch some starcraft related stuff, UP/Downs today was pretty good, but nothing better than waking up on a day where you are sick and watch some sotg! I did use the mp3 like 2 episodes ago and I really prefer vod over mp3.
EPT
