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United States12235 Posts
On September 19 2010 03:59 Dionyseus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:40 Soulzityr wrote:
As SC2 gets older, won't there eventually be more diamond leagues anyways as more and more people hit the roof of promotions? After a while it's all diamond leagues and fewer <diamond leagues, even though im sure there will be some people who stay below diamond and new people will keep getting the game. But the value of being in Diamond League is really low and gets lower every day, right? I don't think so. Globally the percentage of players in diamond league for 1v1 has remained around 7%. At the moment the global percentages are: Diamond 6.97% (82,497) Platinum 14.10% (166,938) Gold 18.97% (224,523) Silver 20.21% (239,238) Bronze 39.76% (470,653) If anything, I think that over time it will become harder and harder to get into diamond. A month ago when I was trying to get my terran account into diamond I kept getting matched with 300-400 point diamond players. Now with my zerg account i'm facing 700s, even some 800s.
If anything, it will be easier, but not for the reasons you expect. Let's say the range of MMR is between 0 and 3000, and that the Diamond threshold is 2500. Early on, top level players will rocket past everyone else and reach 2700, 2800, 2900, far beyond the required threshold. Over time, as skill levels gradually improve, players will start to evenly distribute themselves across the MMR range. That means instead of having to beat these top players at 2900, you could instead beat 2500s and 2600s to cross the threshold.
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EDIT oh wow this is old
I agree. I'm now in Platinum(I ended up in there from placements). I hadn't played the game for about 4 months so in my first games with Zerg I went 16-18, along with 4 disconnects because my computer is awful. After that I switched to Terran because Zerg sucks, now I'm 33-22.
17-4 in last 21 games, 5 game win streak and still no promotion. I'm constantly playing against 800-1000 point diamond players and beat most of them but yeah... annoying to be stuck at plat like this. Maybe I'll be promoted when I reach rank 1 of my division or something, now at 20 or w/e.
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I'm thinking promotions need to take longer. A friend and I tried bombing our last 2 placement matches, but I got such a headache from how bad our opponents were, that I said screw it and we attacked and won. Our opponents were gold players. I've been recently finding plat and gold players to be extremely bad. Diamond is just way too easy to get up to
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This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
![[image loading]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/bmxliveit2/SC22010-09-1815-49-51-52.jpg?t=1284839509)
![[image loading]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/bmxliveit2/SC22010-09-1815-50-16-02.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/bmxliveit2/SC22010-09-1815-50-21-81.jpg)
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I don't mind Promotion, in Beta I got promoted to Diamond after 1 win after placements. But in the full game, It took about 20 games to get from Plat to Diamond, since I don't know the true math behind it I wont complain, but I really think they should use a more straightforward method that others could understand. I really liked the Idea of having Biweekly Tournies for Promotions (kinda like Courage in BW). But I guess that'd be too hard for them to keep track of.
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United States12235 Posts
On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic.
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On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic.
That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around
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On September 19 2010 03:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 02:44 Dionyseus wrote:On September 19 2010 00:05 Fizbin wrote:On September 18 2010 23:17 Dionyseus wrote:
The promotions definitely takes too long. With my zerg account I'm at 99 percentile in platinum according to sc2ranks, over 900pts, with an over 50% ratio (132-117 atm), and I've beaten at least 7 diamond players who on average I think are around 600 pts but I've beaten some that are close to 800 pts, and still stuck in platinum. I've played well over 200 games. I'd much rather be a low ranked diamond than a high ranked platinum... i bet the reason ur not getting promoted is because ur not consistent. saying ur 900 in platinum is just saying uve used up all ur bonus pool. ur MMR is prolly mid-high platinum level and not low diamond level. therefor it will put u against mostly platinum players and sometimes diamond or gold. if u beat some 600 diamond player very rarely but loose to a bunch of platinum players its doing its job. lucky wins im guessing. so basically ur saying: my bonus pool makes me think im better then i am. 50% win ratio is garbage why arent i getting promoted. i've beaten a 600 diamond player doing a 4 gate or 7 pool. but i keep loosing late game to platinum players.... QQ Just played 10 more games, logged all my opponent's records, including their last 5 games win/loss before our match: 1. win against PinkLightning zerg +13pts (even) platinum 908pts 152-138 lwlll 2. win against Twsty protoss +10 (even) platinum 832pts 146-141 wwwll 3. loss against Vitto protoss -9 (opp slightly favored) diamond 827pts 94-81 wwwlw 4. loss against Zode zerg -9 (opp slightly favored) diamond 625pts 38-32 lwlll 5. win against Cooltown protoss +15 (1 bonus even match) diamond 774pts 99-86 llwll 6. loss against Budwyzer protoss +13 (even) diamond 355pts 26-25 wwwlw 7. win against DiscoStu terran +13 (even) diamond 792pts 83-84 llwlw 8. win against Cursexist protoss +14 (even) platinum 576pts 38-23 lwwll 9. loss against Backz zerg -10 (even) diamond 848pts 108-100 lwwwl 10. loss against Lextasy terran -13 (even) platinum 931pts 82-72 llwlw Hm, so it looks like you're straddling the border between Plat and Diamond. I don't know if that's going to be enough to get you promoted. Seems like you'd have to be matched with Diamond players (or high MMR Plat players) a bit more consistently than you currently are.
when ur doing ur calculations u have to remember the bonus pool. which is aprox 600-800 since release which with more games u do the more inaccurate ur actually rating becomes which caps out
so lets take a look at the threshold too diamond mmr which is aprox 300 diamond.
then lets take a look at the diamond players u've beaten:
5. win against Cooltown protoss +15 (1 bonus even match) diamond 774pts 99-86 llwll
who after 200 games has used up all thier bonus pool. whith prolly a mmr of 310 which is barely above the threshold
7. win against DiscoStu terran +13 (even) diamond 792pts 83-84 llwlw
who after 160 games has used up all thier bonus pool but has a mrr of aprox 330 or so, which is barely above the threshold
now if per say, u beat a bunch of 350 rated diamond players who only have 50 games played 80% win ratio, then ur going to get promoted a LOT faster then playing scrubby bonus pooled barely diamond players with 50% win ratio.
i can see how ur not impressed with the system. but remember bonus pools hide ppl's real skill.. its blizzards way of making ppl think they are better then they really are. if i was in your position i'd be pissed as well.
also remember its harder to get demoted then promoted so i could even be wrong about those mmr's
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United States12235 Posts
On September 19 2010 05:08 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic. That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around
You have to stabilize. The fastest way to do that is lose against people higher than you and win against people lower than you. If you do nothing but win, the system is going to look for you to peak somewhere (because inevitably that has to happen for everyone).
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On September 19 2010 05:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:08 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic. That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around You have to stabilize. The fastest way to do that is lose against people higher than you and win against people lower than you. If you do nothing but win, the system is going to look for you to peak somewhere (because inevitably that has to happen for everyone).
I understand that, but I'm not playing any "higher" level players. I'm a quick learner when it comes to games. I literally went 0-11 my first 11 because I had no clue what I was doing. And lately I've been on a tearing streak for 2-3 weeks now. I should be promoted, or at least be playing silver/gold opponents, but I'm still playing bronze players and I'm destroying them,
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United States12235 Posts
On September 19 2010 05:11 Fizbin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 02:44 Dionyseus wrote:On September 19 2010 00:05 Fizbin wrote:On September 18 2010 23:17 Dionyseus wrote:
The promotions definitely takes too long. With my zerg account I'm at 99 percentile in platinum according to sc2ranks, over 900pts, with an over 50% ratio (132-117 atm), and I've beaten at least 7 diamond players who on average I think are around 600 pts but I've beaten some that are close to 800 pts, and still stuck in platinum. I've played well over 200 games. I'd much rather be a low ranked diamond than a high ranked platinum... i bet the reason ur not getting promoted is because ur not consistent. saying ur 900 in platinum is just saying uve used up all ur bonus pool. ur MMR is prolly mid-high platinum level and not low diamond level. therefor it will put u against mostly platinum players and sometimes diamond or gold. if u beat some 600 diamond player very rarely but loose to a bunch of platinum players its doing its job. lucky wins im guessing. so basically ur saying: my bonus pool makes me think im better then i am. 50% win ratio is garbage why arent i getting promoted. i've beaten a 600 diamond player doing a 4 gate or 7 pool. but i keep loosing late game to platinum players.... QQ Just played 10 more games, logged all my opponent's records, including their last 5 games win/loss before our match: 1. win against PinkLightning zerg +13pts (even) platinum 908pts 152-138 lwlll 2. win against Twsty protoss +10 (even) platinum 832pts 146-141 wwwll 3. loss against Vitto protoss -9 (opp slightly favored) diamond 827pts 94-81 wwwlw 4. loss against Zode zerg -9 (opp slightly favored) diamond 625pts 38-32 lwlll 5. win against Cooltown protoss +15 (1 bonus even match) diamond 774pts 99-86 llwll 6. loss against Budwyzer protoss +13 (even) diamond 355pts 26-25 wwwlw 7. win against DiscoStu terran +13 (even) diamond 792pts 83-84 llwlw 8. win against Cursexist protoss +14 (even) platinum 576pts 38-23 lwwll 9. loss against Backz zerg -10 (even) diamond 848pts 108-100 lwwwl 10. loss against Lextasy terran -13 (even) platinum 931pts 82-72 llwlw Hm, so it looks like you're straddling the border between Plat and Diamond. I don't know if that's going to be enough to get you promoted. Seems like you'd have to be matched with Diamond players (or high MMR Plat players) a bit more consistently than you currently are. when ur doing ur calculations u have to remember the bonus pool. which is aprox 600-800 since release which with more games u do the more inaccurate ur actually rating becomes which caps out so lets take a look at the threshold too diamond mmr which is aprox 300 diamond. then lets take a look at the diamond players u've beaten: 5. win against Cooltown protoss +15 (1 bonus even match) diamond 774pts 99-86 llwllwho after 200 games has used up all thier bonus pool. whith prolly a mmr of 310 which is barely above the threshold 7. win against DiscoStu terran +13 (even) diamond 792pts 83-84 llwlwwho after 160 games has used up all thier bonus pool but has a mrr of aprox 330 or so, which is barely above the threshold now if per say, u beat a bunch of 350 rated diamond players who only have 50 games played 80% win ratio, then ur going to get promoted a LOT faster then playing scrubby bonus pooled barely diamond players with 50% win ratio. i can see how ur not impressed with the system. but remember bonus pools hide ppl's real skill.. its blizzards way of making ppl think they are better then they really are. if i was in your position i'd be pissed as well.
First thing: the bonus pool is much higher than that now. It's up to around 770. So, for those players who have played a lot of games, you would just subtract 770 from their displayed ratings. That might give you a vague estimate of their MMR, but I don't know what you're talking about with your "300 Diamond MMR" because there is absolutely no way for us to know a) what the threshold is and b) what the player's MMR is. Are you sure you understand the system?
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United States12235 Posts
On September 19 2010 05:16 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 05:08 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic. That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around You have to stabilize. The fastest way to do that is lose against people higher than you and win against people lower than you. If you do nothing but win, the system is going to look for you to peak somewhere (because inevitably that has to happen for everyone). I understand that, but I'm not playing any "higher" level players. I'm a quick learner when it comes to games. I literally went 0-11 my first 11 because I had no clue what I was doing. And lately I've been on a tearing streak for 2-3 weeks now. I should be promoted, or at least be playing silver/gold opponents, but I'm still playing bronze players and I'm destroying them,
Mind posting your character code? You're on the NA server?
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On September 19 2010 05:23 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:16 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 05:08 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic. That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around You have to stabilize. The fastest way to do that is lose against people higher than you and win against people lower than you. If you do nothing but win, the system is going to look for you to peak somewhere (because inevitably that has to happen for everyone). I understand that, but I'm not playing any "higher" level players. I'm a quick learner when it comes to games. I literally went 0-11 my first 11 because I had no clue what I was doing. And lately I've been on a tearing streak for 2-3 weeks now. I should be promoted, or at least be playing silver/gold opponents, but I'm still playing bronze players and I'm destroying them, Mind posting your character code? You're on the NA server?
ranshaked 901
yeah NA
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On August 06 2010 12:07 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 12:02 Klamity wrote:
Step1. bomb placements
Step2. complain about being in bronze
Step3. make post ROFL. Also OP, I think you need to lose 7 to be promoted. IdrA and other high level players purposely lost 7 games just to move up.
An example of oxymoron? 
Anyways, I think it is fine.
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bonus pool has nothing to do with promotions..
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United States12235 Posts
On September 19 2010 05:32 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:23 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 05:16 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 05:08 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic. That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around You have to stabilize. The fastest way to do that is lose against people higher than you and win against people lower than you. If you do nothing but win, the system is going to look for you to peak somewhere (because inevitably that has to happen for everyone). I understand that, but I'm not playing any "higher" level players. I'm a quick learner when it comes to games. I literally went 0-11 my first 11 because I had no clue what I was doing. And lately I've been on a tearing streak for 2-3 weeks now. I should be promoted, or at least be playing silver/gold opponents, but I'm still playing bronze players and I'm destroying them, Mind posting your character code? You're on the NA server? ranshaked 901 yeah NA
You started out facing Diamond players when you first went 0-11. Confidence in you sunk to very low levels and ultimately you were put up against Bronze players. All your games have been even matches against other Bronze players who regularly play against other Bronze players, which means your MMR is increasing at about the same rate as your displayed rating (that is, not very quickly). You'll need to extend your streak until you start playing against Silver and higher players.
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On September 19 2010 05:19 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:11 Fizbin wrote:On September 19 2010 03:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 02:44 Dionyseus wrote:On September 19 2010 00:05 Fizbin wrote:On September 18 2010 23:17 Dionyseus wrote:
The promotions definitely takes too long. With my zerg account I'm at 99 percentile in platinum according to sc2ranks, over 900pts, with an over 50% ratio (132-117 atm), and I've beaten at least 7 diamond players who on average I think are around 600 pts but I've beaten some that are close to 800 pts, and still stuck in platinum. I've played well over 200 games. I'd much rather be a low ranked diamond than a high ranked platinum... i bet the reason ur not getting promoted is because ur not consistent. saying ur 900 in platinum is just saying uve used up all ur bonus pool. ur MMR is prolly mid-high platinum level and not low diamond level. therefor it will put u against mostly platinum players and sometimes diamond or gold. if u beat some 600 diamond player very rarely but loose to a bunch of platinum players its doing its job. lucky wins im guessing. so basically ur saying: my bonus pool makes me think im better then i am. 50% win ratio is garbage why arent i getting promoted. i've beaten a 600 diamond player doing a 4 gate or 7 pool. but i keep loosing late game to platinum players.... QQ Just played 10 more games, logged all my opponent's records, including their last 5 games win/loss before our match: 1. win against PinkLightning zerg +13pts (even) platinum 908pts 152-138 lwlll 2. win against Twsty protoss +10 (even) platinum 832pts 146-141 wwwll 3. loss against Vitto protoss -9 (opp slightly favored) diamond 827pts 94-81 wwwlw 4. loss against Zode zerg -9 (opp slightly favored) diamond 625pts 38-32 lwlll 5. win against Cooltown protoss +15 (1 bonus even match) diamond 774pts 99-86 llwll 6. loss against Budwyzer protoss +13 (even) diamond 355pts 26-25 wwwlw 7. win against DiscoStu terran +13 (even) diamond 792pts 83-84 llwlw 8. win against Cursexist protoss +14 (even) platinum 576pts 38-23 lwwll 9. loss against Backz zerg -10 (even) diamond 848pts 108-100 lwwwl 10. loss against Lextasy terran -13 (even) platinum 931pts 82-72 llwlw Hm, so it looks like you're straddling the border between Plat and Diamond. I don't know if that's going to be enough to get you promoted. Seems like you'd have to be matched with Diamond players (or high MMR Plat players) a bit more consistently than you currently are. when ur doing ur calculations u have to remember the bonus pool. which is aprox 600-800 since release which with more games u do the more inaccurate ur actually rating becomes which caps out so lets take a look at the threshold too diamond mmr which is aprox 300 diamond. then lets take a look at the diamond players u've beaten: 5. win against Cooltown protoss +15 (1 bonus even match) diamond 774pts 99-86 llwllwho after 200 games has used up all thier bonus pool. whith prolly a mmr of 310 which is barely above the threshold 7. win against DiscoStu terran +13 (even) diamond 792pts 83-84 llwlwwho after 160 games has used up all thier bonus pool but has a mrr of aprox 330 or so, which is barely above the threshold now if per say, u beat a bunch of 350 rated diamond players who only have 50 games played 80% win ratio, then ur going to get promoted a LOT faster then playing scrubby bonus pooled barely diamond players with 50% win ratio. i can see how ur not impressed with the system. but remember bonus pools hide ppl's real skill.. its blizzards way of making ppl think they are better then they really are. if i was in your position i'd be pissed as well. First thing: the bonus pool is much higher than that now. It's up to around 770. So, for those players who have played a lot of games, you would just subtract 770 from their displayed ratings. That might give you a vague estimate of their MMR, but I don't know what you're talking about with your "300 Diamond MMR" because there is absolutely no way for us to know a) what the threshold is and b) what the player's MMR is. Are you sure you understand the system?
how is 770 much higher then 600-800? i dont understand ur logic.
maybe i wasnt making myself clear... when i say a mmr of 275 i meen in diamond league not all leagues. 275 mmr diamond would be something like the top 10% of platinum league's which atm is 800-900 platinum
for exmaple i've been promoted to diamond twice in beta and once in release. and everytime it's 300 diamond. so i know that diamond 300 isnt a mmr of 300 but rather a good place to baseline ur guesses of MMR.
these are just example of what the mmr system would look like if 300 was the threshold
understand?
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On September 19 2010 05:55 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:32 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:23 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 05:16 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 05:08 ranshaked wrote:On September 19 2010 05:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On September 19 2010 04:52 ranshaked wrote:
This is where I'm at. These are my past 20 or so games...One loss...Yet no promotion :/ and i'm ranked #1 in my 4v4 for 2 weeks now and no promotion.
The one loss is precisely why you haven't been promoted. Look at your opponent profiles and read the other threads on the topic. That is the most retarded system ever then. You have to lose to be promoted? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around You have to stabilize. The fastest way to do that is lose against people higher than you and win against people lower than you. If you do nothing but win, the system is going to look for you to peak somewhere (because inevitably that has to happen for everyone). I understand that, but I'm not playing any "higher" level players. I'm a quick learner when it comes to games. I literally went 0-11 my first 11 because I had no clue what I was doing. And lately I've been on a tearing streak for 2-3 weeks now. I should be promoted, or at least be playing silver/gold opponents, but I'm still playing bronze players and I'm destroying them, how many more games do I have to win to prove it though? I mean I've been rolling through people lol Mind posting your character code? You're on the NA server? ranshaked 901 yeah NA You started out facing Diamond players when you first went 0-11. Confidence in you sunk to very low levels and ultimately you were put up against Bronze players. All your games have been even matches against other Bronze players who regularly play against other Bronze players, which means your MMR is increasing at about the same rate as your displayed rating (that is, not very quickly). You'll need to extend your streak until you start playing against Silver and higher players.
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Keep playing and you will get promoted if you should be. If you're playing people from diamond, then you already got what you want. Being in diamond doesn't make you awesome, as much as most people want to think it does.
imo it should take longer, even if you play really well. 20-40 games shouldn't be enough to reach the "top 7%" of players out there. If you feel like you deserve to be in diamond, you're going to play more than that anyway, so why worry about being in plat right away.
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I think I had about 80 games at platinum 1st/2nd against diamond players before I got promoted. I continuously had about 60% win rate against them, but then I got promoted all of a sudden, with my five last games being WWWLW.
I seriously did nothing special. I just played as well as I could and got promoted. Took ages, but was that much more rewarding. 
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EPT
