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On August 03 2010 06:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Im probably just echoing other comments, but is this merely a Terran Nerf thread? I think it would be better to figure out ways around Terran mech rather than nerfing it all.
We got one. Spam more Roaches and Hydras.
That is not the topic though.
I think the course is wrong,they should do something with Z,not T. (Little tweaks welcome though)
Doing Roach/Hydra all the time,or Muta sometimes until T gets AA... Boring.
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On August 03 2010 06:08 llortyag wrote:
If i had a penny for every time a zerg whined...
You guys complain that you have to play better to win with zerg but in BW terran was harder to play but there wasn't a million whine threads about making changes.
Suck it up...
rofl, you can't even argue this.
i find these kinds of threads pathetic, i really do. it's gone from arguing the issue to "lol terrans don't want change cause terran is so ez right now lolz". you guys seriously need to shut the fuck up. what you're doing is perpetuating a whiny mentality that is hilariously bad. need i remind you again how bad PvZ imba threads were? now every zerg who thinks he's hot shit can throw his losing record behind the guise of imbalance and post in these threads about how wronged they were. go ahead search TL forums for PvZ imbalance and see how TERRIBLE the suggestions were. i will guarantee years from now we will be looking back at TvZ suggestions in the same manner. newsflash: it's been like 2 weeks since release just shut up and play. proposing MASSIVE balance changes because you find a matchup hard is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
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On August 03 2010 06:11 arnold(soTa) wrote:not even about balance between units etc..just want the orbital command to require some skill and punish bad macro just like the Queen does.
DO people really not get this? I sense that some people havent even tried playing Zerg at all. Terran's macro mechanic is more about knowing when to mule rather than the actual process of muling. And just in terms of the strength of the macro mechanic, inject larva is way, way more powerful than muling.
Rather than making muling more annoying, maybe inject larva should be less annoying and weaker. IntotheRainbow talked about how inject larva is just broken. It's too good and it makes the entire process of macro'ing for zerg based around hitting an egg-timer mindlessly. It doesn't make Zerg overpowered just by the virtue of Blizzard nerfing actual Zerg units to hell instead of touching larva inject, which really just ruined the balance throughout the game, with zerg being too weak for most of the game and probably too strong for the end.
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United Kingdom12042 Posts
On August 03 2010 06:10 eivind wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Decreasing thor range would be stupid. Thors are good against mutas but well spread mutas decimate thors on the battlefield (i.e., away from turrets) which most zergs refuse to understand (I lose to it all the time at high diamond level).
Thors are still cost effective against mutas. Look at earlier post. Note that a unit that doesnt cost gas (hint: marine) also works well with thors. The biggest problem ZvT is all the options T player have, and that there is nearly impossible to predict which comes. Z is VERY predictable and easy to scout as T. Z needs to FE to try outmacro T because unit to unit Z lose. Z needs to tech fast aswell to counter air (with potential stealth) and to scout (OL speed). Z needs to know exactly when to stop making drones. Z needs to know exactly how many units to make early game to stop harass (hellions). Z cant harass against a good T wall in, so T never needs to fear Z. It just feels like Z is at T's mercy. T player must make mistakes to lose, while Z player must play perfect. IMO the best solution is to make Z more interesting by adding options, not nerfing T. But I guess most of the options will not come before expansion 
So, you mean like it was for Terran in broodwar? All that's happened is roles have been reversed. Terran are the ones hurrasing. Also Bio balls die so fast to baneling/ling, it's almost not even worth it anymore.
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Before you make a thread about terran nerfs.. can you at least post some of your TvZ replays. I find a lot of people complaining about TvZ but when I watch their reps they always:
- Undermine infestors
- Don't tech up to Ultras
- Don't get that extra expansion over terran
- Only mass 1-2 types of units
- Dont abuse Terran mech immobility
..the list goes on
Asia seems to have no problems, neither does Idra.. but I guess its Idra right?
Edit:
People also dont realize that Zerg is defending and droning up at the start of the game.. I win all my TvZ if my initial harass works against Z. But if zerg players defend with minimal casualties.. then they instantly receive the advantage mid-game.
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If mules are gone things will start to be different since no more turtling -------> big push will happening cause terran will have to expand.
O also the orbital fortress as well , bases should be equally hard to guard .
ps about infestors , man with the np nerf they rly bad atm .
Tech to ultras? Oo like we have mules and can wallin behind ...o wait .
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On August 03 2010 06:21 shynee wrote:
Asia seems to have no problems, neither does Idra.. but I guess its Idra right? Yeah. Currently 5 of the top ten players on the Korean ladder are Zerg, with insane 70%+ win percentages to boot. The top ten is not a great indicator, since it's so volatile given the limited sample size and the fact that you can get to the top ten just by mass gaming a relatively low win percentage (not the case here), but it's food for thought.
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United Kingdom12042 Posts
To expand on my previous point. The reason why zergs have to deal with high tech units fast, is because it's so hard to beat mass baneling early on, so if you don't tech, you're going to lose basically all of your army. Also, you need to tech to Starport to get medics.
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On August 03 2010 06:08 st3roids wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 05:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Hate the supply depot change. Just too convoluted =/ How about requiring an SCV to salvage a structure (but maybe allow it for more structures in return - ie turrets)? I don't see a problem with medivacs healing - it's not like anyone thinks terran bio is imbalanced TvZ right? I like the viking change, but I would also like to see the thors damage going back up to 8+6 instead of 6+6; it's annoying that you have to build vikings to counter non-light air units. I'm fine with both units having their range lowered. On August 03 2010 05:30 st3roids wrote:
@ op ur right at everything , but too many terran players atm to even bother , maybe with the expansions other races might come to par.
as for zerg ... i just switched it just not worth the time invenvested unless ur name is idra or cool and you play 15 hours a day .
About ultras ... both top 2 tier zerg units are the only ones that cant hit both air and ground.
Bcs can hit both air and ground doing ridiculus dmg , carriers can hit both as well and with the catapult upgrade plus + 1 dmg they are pretty good as well.
Having a bc can change drastically a fight , having an ultra changes nothing . If you think ultralisks are bad you are insane - it is a terrifying beast. Unlike banelings, it doesn't give a fuck about siege tanks. dont u know math here guys or something , with a SINGLE BC is ur opponet hasnt got many aa ull win , with a single ultra nothing happens the cost it isnt That of significant - ultra cost 200/200 and Bc 400/300 or something , which with mules Terran can built a whole army through a single base anyway. Yea if u can pull out 10 ultras vs terran mech that means u clearly outplayed him since as zerg ull have like 5 bases vs 2 base terran or something to be able to survive to ultras and spawn so many thank you very much for that. And i see the whole tournament and the idra ultra thing vs tlo mech was pathetic , tlo was bad in the whole tournament turtling behind a base or 2 , whats ur point that idra outplayed him in that much , ok cool we agree
Ultra cost 300/200 not 200/200.
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On August 03 2010 06:21 shynee wrote:
Before you make a thread about terran nerfs.. can you at least post some of your TvZ replays. I find a lot of people complaining about TvZ but when I watch their reps they always:
- Undermine infestors
- Don't tech up to Ultras
- Don't get that extra expansion over terran
- Only mass 1-2 types of units
- Dont abuse Terran mech immobility
..the list goes on
Asia seems to have no problems, neither does Idra.. but I guess its Idra right?
Edit:
People also dont realize that Zerg is defending and droning up at the start of the game.. I win all my TvZ if my initial harass works against Z. But if zerg players defend with minimal casualties.. then they instantly receive the advantage mid-game.
Infestors are squishy.
Ultras... not viable midgame (aka can't get them out)
Yeah,You can use drops,hellions... with those maps with wide ramps and stuff...
Only two units are so versality vs Terran so we can mass them. I think we should use Zerglings and Banelings in our composition but..
Abusing immobility... Well maps don't allow such play.
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On August 03 2010 06:23 st3roids wrote:
If mules are gone things will start to be different since no more turtling -------> big push will happening cause terran will have to expand.
O also the orbital fortress as well , bases should be equally hard to guard .
ps about infestors , man with the np nerf they rly bad atm .
Tech to ultras? Oo like we have mules and can wallin behind ...o wait .
Mules to wall in? If terran doesnt expand they will run out of minerals much faster than the zerg at their main.. Like I said, show me your reps and I'll will find the holes.
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I think the best way to make the matchup fair is to change all of the terran weapons into nerf guns. There is no way you can kill a zergling with a nerf gun. Actually a siege tank sized nerf gun could probably kill a zergling but probably not a roach. This would make the match up much better because zergling vs scv micro is 1337.
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@mule it is easier since imo terran macro is the hardest out of all
@depot naw that is what makes them unique
@bunker, sure add a little bit of time but it should stay as it is
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Ya seriously, I dont know what league u are in but watch the top Zerg players, they know how to win against T. Maybe your build/unit composition lacks. Im surprised how many Zergs in Diamond dont even scout by sacrificing an OL. Baneling drops?? Never see those anymore. There are so many strats.. but most zerg diamond players still mass... then A attack.. then before they leave the game.."Terran is OP".
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Why did this turn into a "Zerg players just suck" thread? So all Terran and Protoss players are simply godly at RTS but anytime someone plays Zerg they instantly suck?
We don't have meetings every week to determine what we're going to post about regarding balance. This isn't some big conspiracy to get Terran nerfed into oblivion. These are the observations from people actually playing Zerg, and trust me, we don't need a bunch of Terran players to run in and tell us how "good" our race is.
Unless you actually play Zerg, get out of this thread.
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On August 03 2010 06:34 shynee wrote:
Ya seriously, I dont know what league u are in but watch the top Zerg players, they know how to win against T. Maybe your build/unit composition lacks. Im surprised how many Zergs in Diamond dont even scout by sacrificing an OL. Baneling drops?? Never see those anymore. There are so many strats.. but most zerg diamond players still mass... then A attack.. then before they leave the game.."Terran is OP".
We can't a-move and win,but when You do so it is okay?
Wait...
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
So much text for such stupid ideas.
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On August 03 2010 06:34 shynee wrote:
Ya seriously, I dont know what league u are in but watch the top Zerg players, they know how to win against T. Maybe your build/unit composition lacks. Im surprised how many Zergs in Diamond dont even scout by sacrificing an OL. Baneling drops?? Never see those anymore. There are so many strats.. but most zerg diamond players still mass... then A attack.. then before they leave the game.."Terran is OP".
top zergs only beat top terrans because top zergs are 500x times better than the terrans anyway duhhhhhhhhh.
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this post is a joke... i think that lalush is kind of a know name or something... but maybe hes 15 and doesnt really understand things...
i mean you listed liek 5 or 6 nerfs for terran?! i mean maybe just erase the whole race?!
Mule idea is kind of fine i guess....
anyway basicly the idea of the post is... TvZ is too hard for me so please make it so that i would be easier for me to play againt it.... thx... seriously?!
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EPT
