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On August 14 2010 00:01 Consummate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 23:47 Carthage wrote:On August 13 2010 23:38 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 23:31 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 23:08 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 22:55 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 22:37 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 22:29 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 22:16 Consummate wrote:
Watch him bring up that everyone has to scout where the Terran army is (so you don't run into siege tanks) but Terran don't have to scout where the enemy army is (so their Siege tanks don't get caught without Siege mode)
loving the double standards mate. I love the whole "you gotta scout" thing that doesn't apply to your own team. dude you're seriously showing your nub here. If i want to unsiege my tanks while I'm defending my natural, much less in the middle of the map, I have to scout to make sure your army isnt just out of sight waiting with an observer over my army. Which is where a good protoss player's army will be. Ready and waiting for an opportunity to abuse mech's immobility. I've lost a handful of games due to simply not scanning 1 screen length away before I unsiege to make a slight repositioning. meanwhile protoss has majority map control and has freedom to expand at will due to highly mobile army that will decimate an improperly positioned terran army. And he did it... He just said that because he can't scout properly. people take advantage of his siege tanks getting caught without siege mode. First of all I didn't say that I can't scout properly. I understand why you would put words in my mouth though. As your argument begins to show its weaknesses you attempt to throw up a strawman to distract from the fact that you really don't know what you're talking about. I've seen it many times before and its often effective. It is my hope that the TL community, in general, holds itself to higher standards than you do. It is my hope that people with illogical rants, such as yours, are banned sooner rather than later, as you really just detract from the community. Just to be clear: Its not that I can't scout properly, its that I have moved my tanks without scanning our scouting before and I was punished for it. I was illustrating, for you, the weakness of a mech army. In hopes that you would say, 'Oh, thats not a bad idea, I'll give that a try'. Rather than distort what I have said in order to propagate your useless and baseless opinion. Oh lord.... You said, and I quote "I've lost a handful of games due to simply not scanning 1 screen length away before I unsiege to make a slight repositioning." The question is, why do Zerg have to sacrifice Zerglings/overlords etc (like everyone has been saying) yet Terran are only capable of scanning? Is that bias I see? Can't you sacrifice a Marine to see where that "Good protoss player" will be instead of relying on scan? Secondly, you're stating that Protoss has an observer. Observer comes from Robo, what if I go stargate? Are you insinuating that I should be *forced* into getting a Robo? The tier tree for Protoss isn't the same as Terran. Thirdly, you have the audacity to claim my arguments are straw and illogical rants? Haha? You have insinuated "Terran don't have to scout/only have 1 means of scouting", and you have also thrown personal anecdotes as your arguments, which I believe aren't at top level. Whereas I use maths and top level play as mine (as in, what I have observed from top players). You have also stated that players should run past the MM blob and attack the siege tanks, do you have any idea how stupid that is? You should just give up, you make no sense whatsoever and lack any rational thought. My child, the person with illogical and straw arguments is you. Yes, terran can sacrifice a marine to see where the player might be, its probably even a better move to build hellions and to poke forward quickly. Terran, like zerg and protoss, has options on how they can scout. To not scout as a terran is bad play. I'd say the same for any race. I don't think protoss are forced into robo play to get a good scout. If you go stargate you would probably be getting a void ray or an early phoenix for harass. These both come out about the same time as the first or second viking for terran if terran goes 1/1/1. Void ray harass allows you to pin the terran player to his base and gives you the ability to expand to your natural on pace, if not earlier than terran can take theirs in this situation. Another option for protoss to scout is to research halucinate. It does have an expense associated with it, but if you're going 4 gate and feel the need to scout then it is there as an option. This is not a novel idea. And do I have the audacity to claim your arguments are illogical? Yes, I do. I haven't insinuated the things you claim I have. You certainly have extrapolated these ideas, but just because I didnt go through the process of explaining the mechanics of the entire game doesn't mean you can say I insinuated things that would make me appear to be a fool. Is my gameplay top level? I'm not about to go pro but I do have a w/l ratio greater than 1 in diamond. I don't see a problem citing my personal experiences with the PvT matchup. Although, you do use 'maths' as your argument, which is a powerful strategy. I will attempt to reconcile my position using 'maths'. Perhaps I can find some information on how to do so using the googler so that I can further refudiate your claims. The basis behind your "Siege tanks are balanced" argument is that you need to take advantage of their immobility and attack while they're moving. Now, realistically - how useful is any unit other than an observer at scouting if the terran is moving his tanks etc? Remember, this is something you will have to sit there watching, I would like to see how long a phoenix or void ray lasts just hovering about your blob and observing when they unsiege to actually initiate an attack on them. I have a feeling you don't even know your own arguments. You haven't insinuated what I claim? Then you mustn't have even read what you're typing because you sure have. Oh and, I am also in Diamond, with a better ratio than 1:1 too. I don't see the point you're attempting to make there. You learn where they are currently set up, and attack somewhere else. The terran player is then forced to move the tanks or lose whatever you are attacking. You don't sit there watching the terran build up forces and then eventually move, you take the game into your own hands and MAKE that terran player move. I don't know why I should bother replying to this because you should be able to figure out how stupid that sounds. Disregarding the fact that you can't always maneuver around to attack somewhere else - If you do "attack somewhere else" (aka base trade, because what else are you going to do?), do you really think you are going to beat siege tanks at it?
You are clearly uninterested in learning how to become a better player. Please drop the stupid mentality that if you can't beat it, it must be patched.
You really give up map control to siege tanks? They aren't exactly maneuverable.
You think an attack has to become a base trade? Watch some games with good terran players who go tanks and lose. If they aren't sitting right outside your base, they can't reach your buildings before you've inflicted lethal damage. It takes a lot of time to unsiege, move out, re siege, unsiege, move to strong position again, re siege, etc.
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The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making threads a joke
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On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke
Don't forget the Protoss!
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On August 14 2010 00:31 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke Don't forget the Protoss!
1 base toss are a dead meat , just close this thread fyi , it just end up flame wars with a gazzilion of outrage claims , like a 200/200 roach zerg was overpowered and had to be nerfed (cause roaches aparently could shoot air or somehting as well ? ) , terran bio is weak - i loled here - and other bs
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making threads a joke
How does your post serve to legitimize the thread? and fyi, when you say 'fyi...' you generally follow that up with relevant information.
I'll give you an example:
FYI our posts have been discussing whether or not TvP mech play is IMBA.
-or-
FYI TvP mech play is not 1 base play.
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On August 14 2010 00:35 st3roids wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:31 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke Don't forget the Protoss! 1 base toss are a dead meat , just close this thread fyi , it just end up flame wars with a gazzilion of outrage claims , like a 200/200 roach zerg was overpowered and had to be nerfed (cause roaches aparently could shoot air or somehting as well ? ) , terran bio is weak - i loled here - and other bs
IdrA says bio is weak. I dunno about you, but he's as good a source as any for that sort of thing.
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On August 14 2010 00:15 Carthage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:01 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 23:47 Carthage wrote:On August 13 2010 23:38 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 23:31 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 23:08 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 22:55 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 22:37 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 22:29 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 22:16 Consummate wrote:
Watch him bring up that everyone has to scout where the Terran army is (so you don't run into siege tanks) but Terran don't have to scout where the enemy army is (so their Siege tanks don't get caught without Siege mode)
loving the double standards mate. I love the whole "you gotta scout" thing that doesn't apply to your own team. dude you're seriously showing your nub here. If i want to unsiege my tanks while I'm defending my natural, much less in the middle of the map, I have to scout to make sure your army isnt just out of sight waiting with an observer over my army. Which is where a good protoss player's army will be. Ready and waiting for an opportunity to abuse mech's immobility. I've lost a handful of games due to simply not scanning 1 screen length away before I unsiege to make a slight repositioning. meanwhile protoss has majority map control and has freedom to expand at will due to highly mobile army that will decimate an improperly positioned terran army. And he did it... He just said that because he can't scout properly. people take advantage of his siege tanks getting caught without siege mode. First of all I didn't say that I can't scout properly. I understand why you would put words in my mouth though. As your argument begins to show its weaknesses you attempt to throw up a strawman to distract from the fact that you really don't know what you're talking about. I've seen it many times before and its often effective. It is my hope that the TL community, in general, holds itself to higher standards than you do. It is my hope that people with illogical rants, such as yours, are banned sooner rather than later, as you really just detract from the community. Just to be clear: Its not that I can't scout properly, its that I have moved my tanks without scanning our scouting before and I was punished for it. I was illustrating, for you, the weakness of a mech army. In hopes that you would say, 'Oh, thats not a bad idea, I'll give that a try'. Rather than distort what I have said in order to propagate your useless and baseless opinion. Oh lord.... You said, and I quote "I've lost a handful of games due to simply not scanning 1 screen length away before I unsiege to make a slight repositioning." The question is, why do Zerg have to sacrifice Zerglings/overlords etc (like everyone has been saying) yet Terran are only capable of scanning? Is that bias I see? Can't you sacrifice a Marine to see where that "Good protoss player" will be instead of relying on scan? Secondly, you're stating that Protoss has an observer. Observer comes from Robo, what if I go stargate? Are you insinuating that I should be *forced* into getting a Robo? The tier tree for Protoss isn't the same as Terran. Thirdly, you have the audacity to claim my arguments are straw and illogical rants? Haha? You have insinuated "Terran don't have to scout/only have 1 means of scouting", and you have also thrown personal anecdotes as your arguments, which I believe aren't at top level. Whereas I use maths and top level play as mine (as in, what I have observed from top players). You have also stated that players should run past the MM blob and attack the siege tanks, do you have any idea how stupid that is? You should just give up, you make no sense whatsoever and lack any rational thought. My child, the person with illogical and straw arguments is you. Yes, terran can sacrifice a marine to see where the player might be, its probably even a better move to build hellions and to poke forward quickly. Terran, like zerg and protoss, has options on how they can scout. To not scout as a terran is bad play. I'd say the same for any race. I don't think protoss are forced into robo play to get a good scout. If you go stargate you would probably be getting a void ray or an early phoenix for harass. These both come out about the same time as the first or second viking for terran if terran goes 1/1/1. Void ray harass allows you to pin the terran player to his base and gives you the ability to expand to your natural on pace, if not earlier than terran can take theirs in this situation. Another option for protoss to scout is to research halucinate. It does have an expense associated with it, but if you're going 4 gate and feel the need to scout then it is there as an option. This is not a novel idea. And do I have the audacity to claim your arguments are illogical? Yes, I do. I haven't insinuated the things you claim I have. You certainly have extrapolated these ideas, but just because I didnt go through the process of explaining the mechanics of the entire game doesn't mean you can say I insinuated things that would make me appear to be a fool. Is my gameplay top level? I'm not about to go pro but I do have a w/l ratio greater than 1 in diamond. I don't see a problem citing my personal experiences with the PvT matchup. Although, you do use 'maths' as your argument, which is a powerful strategy. I will attempt to reconcile my position using 'maths'. Perhaps I can find some information on how to do so using the googler so that I can further refudiate your claims. The basis behind your "Siege tanks are balanced" argument is that you need to take advantage of their immobility and attack while they're moving. Now, realistically - how useful is any unit other than an observer at scouting if the terran is moving his tanks etc? Remember, this is something you will have to sit there watching, I would like to see how long a phoenix or void ray lasts just hovering about your blob and observing when they unsiege to actually initiate an attack on them. I have a feeling you don't even know your own arguments. You haven't insinuated what I claim? Then you mustn't have even read what you're typing because you sure have. Oh and, I am also in Diamond, with a better ratio than 1:1 too. I don't see the point you're attempting to make there. You learn where they are currently set up, and attack somewhere else. The terran player is then forced to move the tanks or lose whatever you are attacking. You don't sit there watching the terran build up forces and then eventually move, you take the game into your own hands and MAKE that terran player move. I don't know why I should bother replying to this because you should be able to figure out how stupid that sounds. Disregarding the fact that you can't always maneuver around to attack somewhere else - If you do "attack somewhere else" (aka base trade, because what else are you going to do?), do you really think you are going to beat siege tanks at it? You are clearly uninterested in learning how to become a better player. Please drop the stupid mentality that if you can't beat it, it must be patched. You really give up map control to siege tanks? They aren't exactly maneuverable. You think an attack has to become a base trade? Watch some games with good terran players who go tanks and lose. If they aren't sitting right outside your base, they can't reach your buildings before you've inflicted lethal damage. It takes a lot of time to unsiege, move out, re siege, unsiege, move to strong position again, re siege, etc.
What?
It's hard to keep track of everyone is saying. I will go with the original sentiment that "you need to kill siege tanks when they're moving" as the main argument to Siege tanks being balanced.
Give up map control to siege tanks? Well, if they go to the middle of the map, and siege, even with me seeing. Then according to the counter that some other Terran player suggested, then map control is completely lost.
An attack becoming a base trade? Well, if I can't attack their army, that means I have to attack their base. Likely, because of Siege tanks, your opponent will just base trade with you, is what I was saying. I don't care if Siege tanks destroy buildings quickly, they should, I am just saying that trying to base trade when your opponent has a unit that is supposed to destroy buildings quickly is quite retarded.
Terran players that go tanks and lose either:
A) Got out macro'd
B) Played stupid
I don't think I've seen a game that was neither.
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On August 14 2010 00:36 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:35 st3roids wrote:On August 14 2010 00:31 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke Don't forget the Protoss! 1 base toss are a dead meat , just close this thread fyi , it just end up flame wars with a gazzilion of outrage claims , like a 200/200 roach zerg was overpowered and had to be nerfed (cause roaches aparently could shoot air or somehting as well ? ) , terran bio is weak - i loled here - and other bs IdrA says bio is weak. I dunno about you, but he's as good a source as any for that sort of thing.
I hope that is sarcasm. Because just a few pages ago, you said
"IdrA is a completely biased source. That's like me asking one of you what ZvT is like."
Before you say "yeah that means that he hates terran, so if he said something was weak, then it must be!!!", that doesn't work out. You can't say "idra talks shit" and then say "nah idra is right" when its convenient for you.
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Zergs win by out macroing their opponent in any matchup. If you're a Protoss or a Terran on the same number of bases as the zerg in the early to mid game, you're winning.
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On August 14 2010 01:31 Consummate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:36 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:35 st3roids wrote:On August 14 2010 00:31 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke Don't forget the Protoss! 1 base toss are a dead meat , just close this thread fyi , it just end up flame wars with a gazzilion of outrage claims , like a 200/200 roach zerg was overpowered and had to be nerfed (cause roaches aparently could shoot air or somehting as well ? ) , terran bio is weak - i loled here - and other bs IdrA says bio is weak. I dunno about you, but he's as good a source as any for that sort of thing. I hope that is sarcasm. Because just a few pages ago, you said "IdrA is a completely biased source. That's like me asking one of you what ZvT is like." Before you say "yeah that means that he hates terran, so if he said something was weak, then it must be!!!", that doesn't work out. You can't say "idra talks shit" and then say "nah idra is right" when its convenient for you. Sure I can do that. Why can't I? He is a biased source saying that Terran is too strong. Thusly when he says something is weak, it means it's super weak. Or something to that effect. His perspective is shifted, not wrong altogether. I never said he talked shit. I said he was biased. Hell, were I a pro gamer, I'd be biased too.
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On August 14 2010 01:35 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:31 Consummate wrote:On August 14 2010 00:36 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:35 st3roids wrote:On August 14 2010 00:31 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke Don't forget the Protoss! 1 base toss are a dead meat , just close this thread fyi , it just end up flame wars with a gazzilion of outrage claims , like a 200/200 roach zerg was overpowered and had to be nerfed (cause roaches aparently could shoot air or somehting as well ? ) , terran bio is weak - i loled here - and other bs IdrA says bio is weak. I dunno about you, but he's as good a source as any for that sort of thing. I hope that is sarcasm. Because just a few pages ago, you said "IdrA is a completely biased source. That's like me asking one of you what ZvT is like." Before you say "yeah that means that he hates terran, so if he said something was weak, then it must be!!!", that doesn't work out. You can't say "idra talks shit" and then say "nah idra is right" when its convenient for you. Sure I can do that. Why can't I? He is a biased source saying that Terran is too strong. Thusly when he says something is weak, it means it's super weak. Or something to that effect. His perspective is shifted, not wrong altogether. I never said he talked shit. I said he was biased. Hell, were I a pro gamer, I'd be biased too.
Oh lord....
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On August 14 2010 01:51 Consummate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:35 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:31 Consummate wrote:On August 14 2010 00:36 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:35 st3roids wrote:On August 14 2010 00:31 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 00:30 st3roids wrote:
The last 2 pages are full of ego s$it talk , calling each other stupid.
fyi to all those who made a legit thread into a piece of s$it rly.
Just like in every legit zerg complain , here come the 1base terrans making the threads a joke Don't forget the Protoss! 1 base toss are a dead meat , just close this thread fyi , it just end up flame wars with a gazzilion of outrage claims , like a 200/200 roach zerg was overpowered and had to be nerfed (cause roaches aparently could shoot air or somehting as well ? ) , terran bio is weak - i loled here - and other bs IdrA says bio is weak. I dunno about you, but he's as good a source as any for that sort of thing. I hope that is sarcasm. Because just a few pages ago, you said "IdrA is a completely biased source. That's like me asking one of you what ZvT is like." Before you say "yeah that means that he hates terran, so if he said something was weak, then it must be!!!", that doesn't work out. You can't say "idra talks shit" and then say "nah idra is right" when its convenient for you. Sure I can do that. Why can't I? He is a biased source saying that Terran is too strong. Thusly when he says something is weak, it means it's super weak. Or something to that effect. His perspective is shifted, not wrong altogether. I never said he talked shit. I said he was biased. Hell, were I a pro gamer, I'd be biased too. Oh lord....
Oh lord is right this post made me smile XD
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mythical mage, just one fast question. How come you have made more comments about terran being fine on these forums since 12th of may this year than the total amounts of posts I've done since I joined more than 2 years ago? I think you might overestimate how interested the rest of the forum users are in your opinions. Heck you've written 115 (I shit you not I counted them) replies in this thread alone. Would it be possible for you to condense your thoughts a little bit? even if I was interested in all you have to say I'd rather not read 115 replies, geez.
edit: forgot an 's'
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On August 14 2010 04:01 Zinbiel wrote:
mythical mage, just one fast question. How come you have made more comments about terran being fine on these forums since 12th of may this year than the total amounts of posts I've done since I joined more than 2 years ago? I think you might overestimate how interested the rest of the forum users are in your opinions. Heck you've written 115 (I shit you not I counted them) replies in this thread alone. Would it be possible for you to condense your thoughts a little bit? even if I was interested in all you have to say I'd rather not read 115 replies, geez.
edit: forgot an 's'
Perhaps I've been overzealous in my thoughts, but not all of them have said Terran is fine. Regardless, it matters not and is irrelevant in this discussion. If you wish to discuss my posting habits, you can do it in the pms.
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On August 14 2010 07:20 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:01 Zinbiel wrote:
mythical mage, just one fast question. How come you have made more comments about terran being fine on these forums since 12th of may this year than the total amounts of posts I've done since I joined more than 2 years ago? I think you might overestimate how interested the rest of the forum users are in your opinions. Heck you've written 115 (I shit you not I counted them) replies in this thread alone. Would it be possible for you to condense your thoughts a little bit? even if I was interested in all you have to say I'd rather not read 115 replies, geez.
edit: forgot an 's' Perhaps I've been overzealous in my thoughts, but not all of them have said Terran is fine. Regardless, it matters not and is irrelevant in this discussion. If you wish to discuss my posting habits, you can do it in the pms.
Just poking my head in for a minute because this is identical to an old Warlock who use to troll the Rogue forums in WoW when i used to play a few years ago.
This guy was dedicated. He made numerous threads every day across all the boards for over a year fighting against Rogues, it was intense passion I'd never seen before in a video game.
This "Nerf Terran" and "Terran is fine. l2p" is the same exact thing as "Nerf Rogues" was in WoW at that time.
There is no legitimate argument that can derail a good Nerf crusade.
If you are on the defense for entertainment purposes, fine, have a good time trolling the Zerg, they are an easy target right now. But if you really think you will win and convince anyone that "Terran is fine, you just need to l2p!" who doesn't already think this way, you are kidding yourself.
Really want to prove Zerg is fine? Go play Zerg, get to number 1 diamond, you will then be taken seriously and can spread the good word with confidence and credibility.
That is all.
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On August 14 2010 07:33 Opinion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 07:20 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 04:01 Zinbiel wrote:
mythical mage, just one fast question. How come you have made more comments about terran being fine on these forums since 12th of may this year than the total amounts of posts I've done since I joined more than 2 years ago? I think you might overestimate how interested the rest of the forum users are in your opinions. Heck you've written 115 (I shit you not I counted them) replies in this thread alone. Would it be possible for you to condense your thoughts a little bit? even if I was interested in all you have to say I'd rather not read 115 replies, geez.
edit: forgot an 's' Perhaps I've been overzealous in my thoughts, but not all of them have said Terran is fine. Regardless, it matters not and is irrelevant in this discussion. If you wish to discuss my posting habits, you can do it in the pms. Just poking my head in for a minute because this is identical to an old Warlock who use to troll the Rogue forums in WoW when i used to play a few years ago. This guy was dedicated. He made numerous threads every day across all the boards for over a year fighting against Rogues, it was intense passion I'd never seen before in a video game. This "Nerf Terran" and "Terran is fine. l2p" is the same exact thing as "Nerf Rogues" was in WoW at that time. There is no legitimate argument that can derail a good Nerf crusade.If you are on the defense for entertainment purposes, fine, have a good time trolling the Zerg, they are an easy target right now. But if you really think you will win and convince anyone that "Terran is fine, you just need to l2p!" who doesn't already think this way, you are kidding yourself. Really want to prove Zerg is fine? Go play Zerg, get to number 1 diamond, you will then be taken seriously and can spread the good word with confidence and credibility. That is all.
Sure, I'm just trying to correct people, if they are mistaken(Obvious things that make an impact), and argue my points. It's a debate, just like anything else, and I enjoy a good one from time to time. And, trust me, if I had the time/skill to be the number one on any race, I wouldn't be arguing on forums. Ok, I probably would, but not as much. I wouldn't call what I'm doing trolling either, just a good argument. And I hate warlocks. With a passion.
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On August 13 2010 07:34 TRAP[yoo] wrote:bio is not underpowered but banelings just rape marines^^ and i have to agree...bio is very weak. another argument would be that you cant fight the zerg army directly but instead you have to use drops and such...sounds familiar 
True and people that choose to go bio successfully usually do try and drop harass their opponent even though lings and banelings (even hydras while on creep) can get from one of their base faster than a terran player with mech can cross his base. Yet when a terran player goes bio they drop anyway. You could argue that you need the medivacs anyway for the healing. Each medivac is 100/100 and its 250/250 i believe for both speed and transport for overlords and after that its 100 minerals for transports.
On August 13 2010 07:38 epik640x wrote:
I don't think bio is weak at all. With medivacs and being able to stim and kite the entire zerg T1 force is pretty broken and medivacs need a nerf. Roaches don't even heal that fast burrowed with the healing upgrade.
Banelings may kill marines but that's all they kill and they are melee and expensive and take away lings.
So you are saying that since the zerg can't simply build lings and banelings against another T1 army that is supported by T3 that the T3 unit needs a nerf? I would debate that either a muta/corruptor or infestors would be the ideal T2 unit that would help you deal with that combo.
If you choose air then you can snipe dropships while the teran are hitting and running vs banelings. Or you can freeze there army in place and go for a baneling sandwhich also if their army can't move well you can NP a couple of the dropships to reduce their healing that much more.
Edit: IMO the best way to fix anything (should anything be overpowered) would be the suggestion of the ling morphing into the roach. This would make them 1.5 supply which would still be more than 1 which would limit the options of someone wanting to make an all roach army but not be 2 so players could get a few more a bit quicker.
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On August 13 2010 23:59 Consummate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 23:49 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 23:38 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 23:31 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 23:08 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 22:55 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 22:37 Consummate wrote:On August 13 2010 22:29 trevf wrote:On August 13 2010 22:16 Consummate wrote:
Watch him bring up that everyone has to scout where the Terran army is (so you don't run into siege tanks) but Terran don't have to scout where the enemy army is (so their Siege tanks don't get caught without Siege mode)
loving the double standards mate. I love the whole "you gotta scout" thing that doesn't apply to your own team. dude you're seriously showing your nub here. If i want to unsiege my tanks while I'm defending my natural, much less in the middle of the map, I have to scout to make sure your army isnt just out of sight waiting with an observer over my army. Which is where a good protoss player's army will be. Ready and waiting for an opportunity to abuse mech's immobility. I've lost a handful of games due to simply not scanning 1 screen length away before I unsiege to make a slight repositioning. meanwhile protoss has majority map control and has freedom to expand at will due to highly mobile army that will decimate an improperly positioned terran army. And he did it... He just said that because he can't scout properly. people take advantage of his siege tanks getting caught without siege mode. First of all I didn't say that I can't scout properly. I understand why you would put words in my mouth though. As your argument begins to show its weaknesses you attempt to throw up a strawman to distract from the fact that you really don't know what you're talking about. I've seen it many times before and its often effective. It is my hope that the TL community, in general, holds itself to higher standards than you do. It is my hope that people with illogical rants, such as yours, are banned sooner rather than later, as you really just detract from the community. Just to be clear: Its not that I can't scout properly, its that I have moved my tanks without scanning our scouting before and I was punished for it. I was illustrating, for you, the weakness of a mech army. In hopes that you would say, 'Oh, thats not a bad idea, I'll give that a try'. Rather than distort what I have said in order to propagate your useless and baseless opinion. Oh lord.... You said, and I quote "I've lost a handful of games due to simply not scanning 1 screen length away before I unsiege to make a slight repositioning." The question is, why do Zerg have to sacrifice Zerglings/overlords etc (like everyone has been saying) yet Terran are only capable of scanning? Is that bias I see? Can't you sacrifice a Marine to see where that "Good protoss player" will be instead of relying on scan? Secondly, you're stating that Protoss has an observer. Observer comes from Robo, what if I go stargate? Are you insinuating that I should be *forced* into getting a Robo? The tier tree for Protoss isn't the same as Terran. Thirdly, you have the audacity to claim my arguments are straw and illogical rants? Haha? You have insinuated "Terran don't have to scout/only have 1 means of scouting", and you have also thrown personal anecdotes as your arguments, which I believe aren't at top level. Whereas I use maths and top level play as mine (as in, what I have observed from top players). You have also stated that players should run past the MM blob and attack the siege tanks, do you have any idea how stupid that is? You should just give up, you make no sense whatsoever and lack any rational thought. My child, the person with illogical and straw arguments is you. Yes, terran can sacrifice a marine to see where the player might be, its probably even a better move to build hellions and to poke forward quickly. Terran, like zerg and protoss, has options on how they can scout. To not scout as a terran is bad play. I'd say the same for any race. I don't think protoss are forced into robo play to get a good scout. If you go stargate you would probably be getting a void ray or an early phoenix for harass. These both come out about the same time as the first or second viking for terran if terran goes 1/1/1. Void ray harass allows you to pin the terran player to his base and gives you the ability to expand to your natural on pace, if not earlier than terran can take theirs in this situation. Another option for protoss to scout is to research halucinate. It does have an expense associated with it, but if you're going 4 gate and feel the need to scout then it is there as an option. This is not a novel idea. And do I have the audacity to claim your arguments are illogical? Yes, I do. I haven't insinuated the things you claim I have. You certainly have extrapolated these ideas, but just because I didnt go through the process of explaining the mechanics of the entire game doesn't mean you can say I insinuated things that would make me appear to be a fool. Is my gameplay top level? I'm not about to go pro but I do have a w/l ratio greater than 1 in diamond. I don't see a problem citing my personal experiences with the PvT matchup. Although, you do use 'maths' as your argument, which is a powerful strategy. I will attempt to reconcile my position using 'maths'. Perhaps I can find some information on how to do so using the googler so that I can further refudiate your claims. The basis behind your "Siege tanks are balanced" argument is that you need to take advantage of their immobility and attack while they're moving. Now, realistically - how useful is any unit other than an observer at scouting if the terran is moving his tanks etc? Remember, this is something you will have to sit there watching, I would like to see how long a phoenix or void ray lasts just hovering about your blob and observing when they unsiege to actually initiate an attack on them. I have a feeling you don't even know your own arguments. You haven't insinuated what I claim? Then you mustn't have even read what you're typing because you sure have. Oh and, I am also in Diamond, with a better ratio than 1:1 too. I don't see the point you're attempting to make there. I was highlighting the fact that there are units other than the observer capable of scouting. Yet if you open void rays and see mech play coming then you should be transitioning to robo play for immortals. If you don't you're making a bad decision. The void ray harass will pin the terran player in his base giving you tiem to expand and tech switch. This is dependent on good scouting, good micro, good timing, and good decision making, which is to be expected at high level play. Protoss have many viable ways to gain an advantage over terran, but they all depend on playing well. The same can be said for terran over protoss. Immortals do counter Siege tanks on a 1 to 1 basis. But, if you include other factors like the MM blob that will inevitably prevent the Immortal from even reaching the Siege tank, and you realise it isn't exactly a great counter.
use warp prisms and drop the immortals on top of the siege tanks.
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Stopped reading when he said chronoing a building was harder then calling in a MULE.
There are too many of these threads, why don't you all switch to Terran? Problem solved.
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Every time a zerg player complains about balance, he's saying "I'm not smart/good/fast enough to figure this problem out, I need Blizzard to come and wave their magic wand and give me instant gratification, without me doing any work." It's ridiculous and childish.
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EPT
