|
Broodlord/corrupter combo beats most Terrans on the ladder up until diamond. Then again, they all suck. The few people who do play Zerg usually are the better players who are out for a challenge. The many players who are playing T do so because they don't know jack. Them still having almost 50/50 win rates is not a good thing, it's a disturbing thing. I've been playing many team matches and checking some replays the Terrans usually average at 15-20 APM (up until, say, plat, where they jump to 30). Mad skills right there.
|
On August 14 2010 21:56 Vokasak wrote:
Every time a zerg player complains about balance, he's saying "I'm not smart/good/fast enough to figure this problem out, I need Blizzard to come and wave their magic wand and give me instant gratification, without me doing any work." It's ridiculous and childish.
Yep, Terran players are much better than Zerg players. Zerg players are less intelligent, are not good at school and come from families with problems.
No Terran player complained about roaches. They adepted and were more than good enough to deal with roaches. Roaches were just balanced, not nerfed.
Generalizing is not ridiculous and childish.
|
On August 14 2010 22:01 eivind wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 21:56 Vokasak wrote:
Every time a zerg player complains about balance, he's saying "I'm not smart/good/fast enough to figure this problem out, I need Blizzard to come and wave their magic wand and give me instant gratification, without me doing any work." It's ridiculous and childish. Yep, Terran players are much better than Zerg players. Zerg players are less intelligent, are not good at school and come from families with problems. No Terran player complained about roaches. They adepted and were more than good enough to deal with roaches. Roaches were just balanced, not nerfed. Generalizing is not ridiculous and childish.
Even if what you were saying is true (And I'm not saying it is, except for the less intelligent bit apperantly), how does that invalidate what I said? Are you agreeing with me?
The Roach change was in beta. During the beta, Blizzard was actively asking for our feedback and was releasing dramatic balance changes that would never make it into a retail patch (like changing every single Mothership ability, or quadrupling the research time for warp gates, or completely changing the way the Pheonix moves). If there was a time for nerfing Terran into oblivion like this thread calls for, beta was that time. At a certain point, you have to just shut the fuck up and play.
When do you and other Zerg players plan on doing that, by the way? Do you think top BW players told themelves "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba"? Or do you think they shut the fuck up, played the game, and got better? How do you expect the level of play to ever advance if Blizzard gives in to your every nerf-demand?
|
On August 14 2010 22:10 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 22:01 eivind wrote:On August 14 2010 21:56 Vokasak wrote:
Every time a zerg player complains about balance, he's saying "I'm not smart/good/fast enough to figure this problem out, I need Blizzard to come and wave their magic wand and give me instant gratification, without me doing any work." It's ridiculous and childish. Yep, Terran players are much better than Zerg players. Zerg players are less intelligent, are not good at school and come from families with problems. No Terran player complained about roaches. They adepted and were more than good enough to deal with roaches. Roaches were just balanced, not nerfed. Generalizing is not ridiculous and childish. Even if what you were saying is true (And I'm not saying it is, except for the less intelligent bit apperantly), how does that invalidate what I said? Are you agreeing with me? The Roach change was in beta. During the beta, Blizzard was actively asking for our feedback and was releasing dramatic balance changes that would never make it into a retail patch (like changing every single Mothership ability, or quadrupling the research time for warp gates, or completely changing the way the Pheonix moves). If there was a time for nerfing Terran into oblivion like this thread calls for, beta was that time. At a certain point, you have to just shut the fuck up and play. When do you and other Zerg players plan on doing that, by the way? Do you think top BW players told themelves "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba"? Or do you think they shut the fuck up, played the game, and got better? How do you expect the level of play to ever advance if Blizzard gives in to your every nerf-demand?
Actually BratOK being terran himself said that vultures are too cheap. And yeah all time statistics of BW shows that terrans were far more succesfull than others. BW is not perfectly balanced, and never was. It was close to balance.
I think the problem of current TvZ is the opening variations of T and lack of scouting from Z, thats it.
Everything else also might need some tweaks, even nerfs on Z.
|
Even if what you were saying is true (And I'm not saying it is, except for the less intelligent bit apperantly), how does that invalidate what I said? Are you agreeing with me?
The Roach change was in beta. During the beta, Blizzard was actively asking for our feedback and was releasing dramatic balance changes that would never make it into a retail patch (like changing every single Mothership ability, or quadrupling the research time for warp gates, or completely changing the way the Pheonix moves). If there was a time for nerfing Terran into oblivion like this thread calls for, beta was that time. At a certain point, you have to just shut the fuck up and play.
When do you and other Zerg players plan on doing that, by the way? Do you think top BW players told themelves "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba"? Or do you think they shut the fuck up, played the game, and got better? How do you expect the level of play to ever advance if Blizzard gives in to your every nerf-demand?[/QUOTE]
So your saying that once the game is release...its balanced? BW took years to be balance and it was not done during beta...it was done the following decade after release.............
|
TL is sad with threads like these, so many bad people giving horrible advice and good people with good intentions but terrible ideeas. I was going to right a reply to touch upon how retarded are most of the suggestions the OP made (like the mule one, more mindless mechanics, where a simple mule gathering rate nerf would suffice if thats indeed the problem in this match-up) but i feel there's no way threads like these can be saved :/
|
On August 14 2010 22:10 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 22:01 eivind wrote:On August 14 2010 21:56 Vokasak wrote:
Every time a zerg player complains about balance, he's saying "I'm not smart/good/fast enough to figure this problem out, I need Blizzard to come and wave their magic wand and give me instant gratification, without me doing any work." It's ridiculous and childish. Yep, Terran players are much better than Zerg players. Zerg players are less intelligent, are not good at school and come from families with problems. No Terran player complained about roaches. They adepted and were more than good enough to deal with roaches. Roaches were just balanced, not nerfed. Generalizing is not ridiculous and childish. Even if what you were saying is true (And I'm not saying it is, except for the less intelligent bit apperantly), how does that invalidate what I said? Are you agreeing with me? The Roach change was in beta. During the beta, Blizzard was actively asking for our feedback and was releasing dramatic balance changes that would never make it into a retail patch (like changing every single Mothership ability, or quadrupling the research time for warp gates, or completely changing the way the Pheonix moves). If there was a time for nerfing Terran into oblivion like this thread calls for, beta was that time. At a certain point, you have to just shut the fuck up and play. When do you and other Zerg players plan on doing that, by the way? Do you think top BW players told themelves "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba"? Or do you think they shut the fuck up, played the game, and got better? How do you expect the level of play to ever advance if Blizzard gives in to your every nerf-demand?
Uhh, Brood War did have balance patches after release. And some of them were fairly large balance patches as well. If something is imbalanced, it should be fixed. Just because it isn't beta anymore, doesn't mean they are done, or should be done with balance.
|
On August 14 2010 22:31 Loverman wrote:
TL is sad with threads like these, so many bad people giving horrible advice and good people with good intentions but terrible ideeas. I was going to right a reply to touch upon how retarded are most of the suggestions the OP made (like the mule one, more mindless mechanics, where a simple mule gathering rate nerf would suffice if thats indeed the problem in this match-up) but i feel there's no way threads like these can be saved :/
I think you should try playing ZvT at pro level or you can't prove him wrong otherwise. Even Morrow and Idra admit that problem exists in this thread. I actually feel that MULE is too efficient. Check some replays and see that Terran on 2 bases saturate more than Zerg at 3 bases which is wrong if you consider that Terran units far more cost-efficient than zergs units.
I am not whining, I played Terran from start of retail and made to the top diamond. Then swithched to zerg for experiment and I can barely hold on mid diamond.
|
On August 14 2010 22:10 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 22:01 eivind wrote:On August 14 2010 21:56 Vokasak wrote:
Every time a zerg player complains about balance, he's saying "I'm not smart/good/fast enough to figure this problem out, I need Blizzard to come and wave their magic wand and give me instant gratification, without me doing any work." It's ridiculous and childish. Yep, Terran players are much better than Zerg players. Zerg players are less intelligent, are not good at school and come from families with problems. No Terran player complained about roaches. They adepted and were more than good enough to deal with roaches. Roaches were just balanced, not nerfed. Generalizing is not ridiculous and childish. Even if what you were saying is true (And I'm not saying it is, except for the less intelligent bit apperantly), how does that invalidate what I said? Are you agreeing with me? The Roach change was in beta. During the beta, Blizzard was actively asking for our feedback and was releasing dramatic balance changes that would never make it into a retail patch (like changing every single Mothership ability, or quadrupling the research time for warp gates, or completely changing the way the Pheonix moves). If there was a time for nerfing Terran into oblivion like this thread calls for, beta was that time. At a certain point, you have to just shut the fuck up and play. When do you and other Zerg players plan on doing that, by the way? Do you think top BW players told themelves "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba"? Or do you think they shut the fuck up, played the game, and got better? How do you expect the level of play to ever advance if Blizzard gives in to your every nerf-demand?
So what you are basically suggesting is that because the beta is over, everything is fine and dandy?
Come on, you can't really ask us to shut up and play more. Most of us TLers play more than enough.
While we are on the subject of the roach nerf. That nerf was widely accepted as the biggest nerf known to zerg. Aside from blizzard, hardly anybody understood the logic of making roaches 2 supply after giving them more than enough nerfs to their armour, healing and burrow speed.
We are not looking for 'instant gratification'. If we wanted that we would play protoss and 4gate our way to 1 Diamond. We aren't looking to kick the terran to death in the groin.
Many zerg players feel that the ZvT match up is very, very hard. We're having a discussion about this. There is no whining about ZvP, aside from the occasional cheese and collosi rage, there are not whole threads devoted to it. There is more than enough room on both sides of that match up for it to be even. I don't need to list all the difficulties zerg has versus terran, I'm pretty sure you're more than enlightened about those. If you mind us discussing those problems then please, stay out of those threads and look at the bazzilion other threads that discuss other stuff.
|
On August 14 2010 22:36 Sentenal wrote:
Uhh, Brood War did have balance patches after release. And some of them were fairly large balance patches as well. If something is imbalanced, it should be fixed. Just because it isn't beta anymore, doesn't mean they are done, or should be done with balance.
If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP.
On August 14 2010 22:39 Chaosvuistje wrote:
So what you are basically suggesting is that because the beta is over, everything is fine and dandy?
No. I'm basically suggesting that because the beta is over, the time for sweeping radical changes (Like everything found in this thread) is over.
On August 14 2010 22:39 Chaosvuistje wrote:
While we are on the subject of the roach nerf. That nerf was widely accepted as the biggest nerf known to zerg. Aside from blizzard, hardly anybody understood the logic of making roaches 2 supply after giving them more than enough nerfs to their armour, healing and burrow speed.
The logic is really simple; Look at the roach's stats at the start of the beta. There is no way in hell that that unit deserves to be one supply. I'm actually having trouble believing that there's anyone out there who still thinks roaches at one supply was just fine, yet here you are. Do we really want to go back to the days of zergs making nothing but roaches?
On August 14 2010 22:39 Chaosvuistje wrote:
Many zerg players feel that the ZvT match up is very, very hard. We're having a discussion about this. There is no whining about ZvP, aside from the occasional cheese and collosi rage, there are not whole threads devoted to it. There is more than enough room on both sides of that match up for it to be even. I don't need to list all the difficulties zerg has versus terran, I'm pretty sure you're more than enlightened about those. If you mind us discussing those problems then please, stay out of those threads and look at the bazzilion other threads that discuss other stuff.
I don't have a problem with people saying "This matchup is hard! Let's discuss ways to improve our play and overcome!". That would actually be really great and inspirational. But instead of that, we have people drooling on their keyboards while crying for nerfs and comparing the difficulty of MULEs and Chrono Boosts. This thread isn't nearly as noble as you're making it sound.
|
If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP.
LOL
+ Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300.
+ Show Spoiler [1.05] +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
+ Show Spoiler [1.04] +============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time.
Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit.
|
On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit.
It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_-
What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes.
How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges.
|
God please Vokasak stop making a complete idiot of yourself. You have been proven wrong so many times in this thread and yet you wont stop posting. You have told your awkward views on starcraft many times now, if you don't have to ad anything else besides "game is fine, blizzard knows best, stfu and l2p" please consider stop posting. Thanks!
|
On August 14 2010 23:28 Perkins1752 wrote:
God please Vokasak stop making a complete idiot of yourself. You have been proven wrong so many times in this thread and yet you wont stop posting. You have told your awkward views on starcraft many times now, if you don't have to ad anything else besides "game is fine, blizzard knows best, stfu and l2p" please consider stop posting. Thanks!
I'm sorry my posting upsets you so much, but have you actually considered what I've been posting, that you should try to improve your play and that your initial feelings might be wrong?
Also, I invite you to point out when I've been "proven wrong".
|
On August 14 2010 23:20 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit. It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_- What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes. How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges.
Cool cherry picking.
The list also includes things like Dragoon Build Time Increased, Dragoon cost decreased, Psi Storm Damage decreased, Lurker aspect cost increased, spawning pool cost increased, wraiths buffed, Science Vessels buffed, Goliaths get better upgrades, Comsat costs 50 energy, Carriers buffed, Hydralisk build time increased, defiler cost increased, etc etc etc.
There were PLENTY of meaningful changes. It is ignorant to say otherwise.
|
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Seems pretty significant to me at least, just to name a few (not to big of an expert on Sc-1 though)
|
On August 14 2010 23:33 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 23:20 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit. It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_- What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes. How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges. Cool cherry picking. The list also includes things like Dragoon Build Time Increased, Dragoon cost decreased, Psi Storm Damage decreased, Lurker aspect cost increased, spawning pool cost increased, wraiths buffed, Science Vessels buffed, Goliaths get better upgrades, Comsat costs 50 energy, Carriers buffed, Hydralisk build time increased, defiler cost increased, etc etc etc. There were PLENTY of meaningful changes. It is ignorant to say otherwise.
Meaningful, sure. But still just things like tweaking with costs and build times in small increments. Nothing that fundamentally alters the game the way the things I listed (Roaches, warp gates, zerg casters) did for SC2, and nothing with the magnatude of the things discussed in this thread. 50 energy comsat is a meaningful upgrade that made something people were already doing more useful. Psi storm nerf was a subtle but meaningful way to reign in a very strong ability. None of those things have gone overboard, though. None of them are things like "Thor Javalin Missles - splash damage removed." or "Bunker Salvage - removed". Those are HUGE changes.
I'm pretty much repeating myself exactly. I feel like you're not even reading what I'm posting. 
|
On August 14 2010 23:43 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 23:33 Sentenal wrote:On August 14 2010 23:20 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit. It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_- What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes. How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges. Cool cherry picking. The list also includes things like Dragoon Build Time Increased, Dragoon cost decreased, Psi Storm Damage decreased, Lurker aspect cost increased, spawning pool cost increased, wraiths buffed, Science Vessels buffed, Goliaths get better upgrades, Comsat costs 50 energy, Carriers buffed, Hydralisk build time increased, defiler cost increased, etc etc etc. There were PLENTY of meaningful changes. It is ignorant to say otherwise. Meaningful, sure. But still just things like tweaking with costs and build times in small increments. Nothing that fundamentally alters the game the way the things I listed (Roaches, warp gates, zerg casters) did for SC2, and nothing with the magnatude of the things discussed in this thread. 50 energy comsat is a meaningful upgrade that made something people were already doing more useful. Psi storm nerf was a subtle but meaningful way to reign in a very strong ability. None of those things have gone overboard, though. None of them are things like "Thor Javalin Missles - splash damage removed." or "Bunker Salvage - removed". Those are HUGE changes. I'm pretty much repeating myself exactly. I feel like you're not even reading what I'm posting.
Psi Storm nerf was subtle? Did you know Psi Storm used to be able to kill a full HP Lurker with a single Storm? What about Disruption Web? Did you know that spell used to last like a billion years? Sure, there wasn't anything like adding or removing abilities, but the sheer volume of meaningful changes were plenty.
Plus, I think you are forgetting stuff that even you yourself said earlier in this thread. "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba" ring any bells? Changes like that were abundant in the patch notes I showed, and you acted like changes like that were unheard of in Brood War.
|
On August 14 2010 23:43 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 23:33 Sentenal wrote:On August 14 2010 23:20 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit. It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_- What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes. How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges. Cool cherry picking. The list also includes things like Dragoon Build Time Increased, Dragoon cost decreased, Psi Storm Damage decreased, Lurker aspect cost increased, spawning pool cost increased, wraiths buffed, Science Vessels buffed, Goliaths get better upgrades, Comsat costs 50 energy, Carriers buffed, Hydralisk build time increased, defiler cost increased, etc etc etc. There were PLENTY of meaningful changes. It is ignorant to say otherwise. Meaningful, sure. But still just things like tweaking with costs and build times in small increments. Nothing that fundamentally alters the game the way the things I listed (Roaches, warp gates, zerg casters) did for SC2, and nothing with the magnatude of the things discussed in this thread. 50 energy comsat is a meaningful upgrade that made something people were already doing more useful. Psi storm nerf was a subtle but meaningful way to reign in a very strong ability. None of those things have gone overboard, though. None of them are things like "Thor Javalin Missles - splash damage removed." or "Bunker Salvage - removed". Those are HUGE changes. I'm pretty much repeating myself exactly. I feel like you're not even reading what I'm posting.
If you'd read slush suggestion again you'd see your blowing it out of proportion, slush is asking for smalls tweaks there and there. In my opinion ( and I believe that a lot of us think the same), the bunker behing essentialy free might be overpowered, none of us ( I think) suggested to completely remove it, but let it only give you back a certain % of the initial cost, slush isnt also asking for the splash damage removal from thor's air attack, just to *cough* maybe look at the insane range of the unit. Then again, we're not asking for melee javelines.
|
On August 14 2010 23:51 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 23:43 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:33 Sentenal wrote:On August 14 2010 23:20 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit. It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_- What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes. How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges. Cool cherry picking. The list also includes things like Dragoon Build Time Increased, Dragoon cost decreased, Psi Storm Damage decreased, Lurker aspect cost increased, spawning pool cost increased, wraiths buffed, Science Vessels buffed, Goliaths get better upgrades, Comsat costs 50 energy, Carriers buffed, Hydralisk build time increased, defiler cost increased, etc etc etc. There were PLENTY of meaningful changes. It is ignorant to say otherwise. Meaningful, sure. But still just things like tweaking with costs and build times in small increments. Nothing that fundamentally alters the game the way the things I listed (Roaches, warp gates, zerg casters) did for SC2, and nothing with the magnatude of the things discussed in this thread. 50 energy comsat is a meaningful upgrade that made something people were already doing more useful. Psi storm nerf was a subtle but meaningful way to reign in a very strong ability. None of those things have gone overboard, though. None of them are things like "Thor Javalin Missles - splash damage removed." or "Bunker Salvage - removed". Those are HUGE changes. I'm pretty much repeating myself exactly. I feel like you're not even reading what I'm posting. Psi Storm nerf was subtle? Did you know Psi Storm used to be able to kill a full HP Lurker with a single Storm? What about Disruption Web? Did you know that spell used to last like a billion years? Sure, there wasn't anything like adding or removing abilities, but the sheer volume of meaningful changes were plenty. Plus, I think you are forgetting stuff that even you yourself said earlier in this thread. "wtf vultures 75 minerals spidermine imba" ring any bells? Changes like that were abundant in the patch notes I showed, and you acted like changes like that were unheard of in Brood War.
Yes, I knew that, and the ability was reigned in and now it takes a psi storm and a goon shot. But if the people in this thread were to try their hand at nerfing psistorm, it wouldn't be going from 8x16 damage to 8x14, it would be ridiculous things like adding a minute-long cooldown or halving the damage or making it a cast range of 5. And again, you were either already getting templars and storm or you weren't. The change didn't affect anyone's game plan. People got templars and storm before the change and they got templars and storm after the change. The change is meaningful, yes, but it's subtle.
I'm not forgetting those things I said in the thread. Vultures still cost 75 minerals, which amounts to 25 minerals per spider mine, and then with this awesome harass unit thrown in. People continue to call that imbalanced to this very day on this very website, except in the BroodWar forums, bullshit threads like this one calling for spider mines to be removed from the game don't fly, and people are told to stfu and learn to play. Why do we tolerate it here if we don't tolerate it there?
On August 14 2010 23:55 Fitz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 23:43 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:33 Sentenal wrote:On August 14 2010 23:20 Vokasak wrote:On August 14 2010 23:09 Sentenal wrote:If you're refering to the patches that made invulnerable drones and unbeatable 4-pools impossible, or fixed reaver/shuttle, those are really more of a "duhhhhh" balance patches. The other changes to BW have been minor and insignificant, much smaller than most of the things in the beta and much smaller than anything in the OP. LOL + Show Spoiler [1.08] +--------------------
Balance Changes 1.08
--------------------
TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas. ============================
1.04 Balance Changes
============================
TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time. Please know what you are talking about before you say retarded bullshit. It's certainly a long list, but look at what's in it. Yamato research cost? Nuke build speed? Carrier supply cost? I'm sure these things dramatically shook up the game plans of the players, right? -_- What in there compares to the series of Roach nerfs, which made zergs actually have to build more than one type of unit to win a game? What in that list compares to the warp gate nerf, which single-handedly fixed a matchup? What in there compares with the constant reshuffle that took place on the zerg casters and on the mothership, which redefined the role of the unit every few patches? The things suggested in this thread are nothing like what's found in your patchnotes. How would you react if, in the next patch, the zerg balance changes include things like "decreased research time for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade."? If the Terran nerfs you guys are things like "Viking - Increased cooldown rate of ground attack."? You're comparing apples and oranges. Cool cherry picking. The list also includes things like Dragoon Build Time Increased, Dragoon cost decreased, Psi Storm Damage decreased, Lurker aspect cost increased, spawning pool cost increased, wraiths buffed, Science Vessels buffed, Goliaths get better upgrades, Comsat costs 50 energy, Carriers buffed, Hydralisk build time increased, defiler cost increased, etc etc etc. There were PLENTY of meaningful changes. It is ignorant to say otherwise. Meaningful, sure. But still just things like tweaking with costs and build times in small increments. Nothing that fundamentally alters the game the way the things I listed (Roaches, warp gates, zerg casters) did for SC2, and nothing with the magnatude of the things discussed in this thread. 50 energy comsat is a meaningful upgrade that made something people were already doing more useful. Psi storm nerf was a subtle but meaningful way to reign in a very strong ability. None of those things have gone overboard, though. None of them are things like "Thor Javalin Missles - splash damage removed." or "Bunker Salvage - removed". Those are HUGE changes. I'm pretty much repeating myself exactly. I feel like you're not even reading what I'm posting. If you'd read slush suggestion again you'd see your blowing it out of proportion, slush is asking for smalls tweaks there and there. In my opinion ( and I believe that a lot of us think the same), the bunker behing essentialy free might be overpowered, none of us ( I think) suggested to completely remove it, but let it only give you back a certain % of the initial cost, slush isnt also asking for the splash damage removal from thor's air attack, just to *cough* maybe look at the insane range of the unit. Then again, we're not asking for melee javelines.
The removal of salvage is taken directly from the OP. The removal of air splash was from some post somewhere in this thread which I don't feel like digging through dozens of pages to dig up, but I promise you I didn't make it up.
Slush's suggestions aren't the most unreasonable, but there are plenty of these kinds of threads going around, and this is only the biggest and (in terms of the responses it's attracted) baddest. On top of that, I have a problem with the idea that Zergs have already given up trying to improve their play and need a bailout from Blizzard less than two months into the game's lifecycle. This shouldn't be a thread about potential balance changes, it should be a thread on potential play improvements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
