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I think we all know there problems with scii and custom maps on bnet. The list of bnet's custom maps problems include the new popularity system, lack of custom game names, and their default game types [1], among of things.
Blizzards intentions
I believe I understand Blizzards intentions in the new way they designed bnet. They want to prevent a large list of games on similar maps such as of BGH 2v2v2v2, 0Clut NR20, DotA AP+EM, ect which drown out all other game types. Unfortunately the solution they've created is in no way any better than the old system, and is arguably much worse.
What we have currently
What we have now is a system were new maps or new game types are impossible to start. For example, as a game player yesterday I changed the filters and paged through pages to find a custom melee map which supported more than 8 players (I found a 6v6 melee map). I created a custom game using that map and waited for players to join. More than 2 hours later (after a while I went afk while watching a movie) from the message log I could see that not one other player had ever joined the game. In other words, the current bnet system made it impossible to start a new game type which didn't already rank as popular.
In the older bnet system, custom games list would show players a list of named gamed for newly created games, or for games where someone had recently left from a game slot. While this system was not perfect, it at least allowed people to both see a list of game descriptions in the game name such as "6v6 map rules" or "10 way FFA", and it would constantly update as games were being created. The current system has none of this, which causes problems. In addition to making certain game types impossible to start, it also stymies a player's attempt to start games for anything which isn't already popular. It also makes it very difficult to communicate game rules before someone joins a game.
So what is the solution?
I believe Blizzard need to totally overhaul the bnet custom game system. The popularity system also has to go. Sure, it was noble for them to try to eradicate the BGH or Zero Clutter dominance in game list, but bnet really does need custom games names. That or some better way to denote game rules in a game list so that people can see the game rules (unlock alliance, 2v2v2v2 etc) before they join.
This is the solution
The ideal solution is within reach. All Blizzard needs to do is create a better custom game browser screen. A screen which displays a grid with the following columns: Map Name, Game Name, Players, Game Mode, Popularity, and Creation Time. Games with the same options can be combined, such that the game list isn't filled with 20 DotA or BGH games. The browser should update constantly as games are being created. It should allow for scrolling through games and both sorting and filtering on any or all of the columns displayed. The game browser screen should remember the sort and options you last used. That it. Do this and custom games would be fixed.
[1] Custom game types include melee, co-op vs ai, and custom. Melee only includes 1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4; there are no options for 2v2v2v2, 6v6, or 3v3v3 ect. Custom does not convey game type rules, such as 5v5 or 6v6 or all pick or easy mode ect.
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Couldn't agree more. The first thing they really need to update is the browsing method. It is just really terrible.
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No offence to your post and I agree with you by the way. But Blizzard as much more important things to deal with at the moment. Such as Battlenet 2.0 being a bag of shit and Balance being non-existent.
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On August 02 2010 23:49 Necrosjef wrote:
No offence to your post and I agree with you by the way. But Blizzard as much more important things to deal with at the moment. Such as Battlenet 2.0 being a bag of shit and Balance being non-existent.
Well they are not going to add LAN, so that's out the window. As far as balance goes, yeah that will be tweaked with just about every single patch they make. I don't want to come off as a whiner. Blizzard can take their time in fixing custom games, but I just want it fixed sometime, and hopefully with a solution which allows people to join new games types, rather than the most popular ones.
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Blizzards intentions
I believe I understand Blizzards intentions in they new way they designed bnet. They want to prevent a large list of games on similar maps such as of BGH 2v2v2v2, 0Clut NR20, DotA AP+EM, ect which drown out all other game types. Unfortunately the solution they've created is in no way any better than the old system, and is arguably much worse.
I don't think it is so much as to prevent limit the "same" games like BGH 2v2v2v2. I think there were at least a few more reasons behind the custom game system. The biggest and best reason in my opnion is they made it "Ad-Free". In WC3 especially most custom games were ads for websites or products and they would use the game name to advertise. Blizzard eliminated that by making hte game name the map name, and also adding an automatic game starter (Game starts in 30 seconds after filling up.) Personally I don't see why we need to name games. All I care about is the map, or game type. I don't care if you wrote in ALL CAPS or if one name seems more appealing. I just want to play. As far as starting new game types and having a hard time getting people to join, I feel like they probably should fix that. How? I don't really know.
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On August 02 2010 23:58 Distortionz wrote:
I don't think it is so much as to prevent limit the "same" games like BGH 2v2v2v2. I think there were at least a few more reasons behind the custom game system. The biggest and best reason in my opnion is they made it "Ad-Free". In WC3 especially most custom games were ads for websites or products and they would use the game name to advertise. Blizzard eliminated that by making hte game name the map name, and also adding an automatic game starter (Game starts in 30 seconds after filling up.) Personally I don't see why we need to name games. All I care about is the map, or game type. I don't care if you wrote in ALL CAPS or if one name seems more appealing. I just want to play. As far as starting new game types and having a hard time getting people to join, I feel like they probably should fix that. How? I don't really know.
Custom games need a way to convey the rules and or settings of a game before it is created. Like in my DotA example, AP EM, or with an 8 player map denoting it's a 2v2v2v2 game with unlocked alliances (ally your pick of neighbors). Before that was placed in the title, but now people can't see those options in the game grid. Something needs to be done.
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Then a description feature should be added to games. Maybe a game type, then you can drop-down a list of those games (with attached descriptions for each).
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Or read my solution (replace game name with game options):
The ideal solution is within reach. All Blizzard needs to do is create a better custom game browser screen. A screen which displays a grid with the following columns: Map Name, Game Name, Players, Game Mode, Popularity, and Creation Time. Games with the same options can be combined, such that the game list isn't filled with 20 DotA or BGH games. The browser should update constantly as games are being created. It should allow for scrolling through games and both sorting and filtering on any or all of the columns displayed. The game browser screen should remember the sort and options you last used. That it. Do this and custom games would be fixed.
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A screen which displays a grid with the following columns: Map Name, Game Name, Players, Game Mode, Popularity, and Creation Time.
Map Name, Game Mode, Popularity are already implemented. Like I said before I don't think the game name is important. I would just perfer a description you could open.
EDIT: However, I agree there are problems with custom games. Maybe just to the same extent as you.
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I think if they added the other way in, and simply made 2 ways to browse maps, it would be perfect. That is, one view will show the old way, where you name the game and they are displayed in a list that constantly updates, and the other view will show the current popularity mode, with and addition of showing how many games of that type are currently hosted. That way, if you wanted to host a game with friends, you could just tell them the game name/password, and play only friends, without the hassle of inviting them 1 by 1, and if you wanted a quick game vs strangers you could use the popularity system and pick one of the top maps.
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All Blizzard has to do is add a "HOST DESCRIPTION" field.
PORBLEM SOLVED.
so you have
Map Name, Game Mode, Popularity ADDED WITH HOST DESCIPRTION.
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Alright I tried using search but I didn't find any relevant information, As a long time lurker and first time poster - How do I create 1v1 + obs games for the public? As soon as I change one of me or my friends to a spectator or referee it greys out the "Open to public" option. I remember back in the wc3 days we got our 1v1 +obs games count up to nearly 1000 and some of the best times I ever had with wc3 was in those games. Can someone help me?
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On August 03 2010 00:18 nihoh wrote:
All Blizzard has to do is add a "HOST DESCRIPTION" field.
PORBLEM SOLVED.
so you have
Map Name, Game Mode, Popularity ADDED WITH HOST DESCIPRTION.
I haven't played the new SC2 yet since beta. I was under the impression that this wouldn't be possible with the way custom games work, unless they changed the way it worked..
doesn't it group all the game of a similar map together and when you click to join that game it puts you into an existing lobby with that map? In essence you aren't joining a lobby, you're queuing for a certain map and then the game puts you in a lobby
if custom games no longer work this way then ignore this post
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On August 03 2010 00:18 nihoh wrote:
All Blizzard has to do is add a "HOST DESCRIPTION" field.
PORBLEM SOLVED.
so you have
Map Name, Game Mode, Popularity ADDED WITH HOST DESCIPRTION.
this
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They just need an option to see the newest created games along with the current map-by-popularity system.
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On August 02 2010 23:55 sysrpl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 23:49 Necrosjef wrote:
No offence to your post and I agree with you by the way. But Blizzard as much more important things to deal with at the moment. Such as Battlenet 2.0 being a bag of shit and Balance being non-existent. Well they are not going to add LAN, so that's out the window. As far as balance goes, yeah that will be tweaked with just about every single patch they make. I don't want to come off as a whiner. Blizzard can take their time in fixing custom games, but I just want it fixed sometime, and hopefully with a solution which allows people to join new games types, rather than the most popular ones.
You aren't coming across as a whiner. The points you make are legitimate.
I'm just saying myself and I'm guessing a bunch of other people would be pretty upset if Blizzard made sorting custom games out a top priority when there is like a million other things that are also huge problems.
Basically everything is wrong with battlenet 2.0 and very few things are done well or work as intended.
Not really sure what Blizzard are planning to do about it if anything but the whole battlenet 2.0 setup seems to be designed to prevent players interacting and sharing content. There are simply so many barriers Blizzard have set up to prevent even basic communication through battlenet 2.0, things like custom maps not being at the top of the list need to take a backseat to things like lack of chat etc. etc.
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On August 03 2010 01:50 Necrosjef wrote:
Basically everything is wrong with battlenet 2.0 and very few things are done well or work as intended.
Not really sure what Blizzard are planning to do about it if anything but the whole battlenet 2.0 setup seems to be designed to prevent players interacting and sharing content. There are simply so many barriers Blizzard have set up to prevent even basic communication through battlenet 2.0, things like custom maps not being at the top of the list need to take a backseat to things like lack of chat etc. etc.
I think what I'd like to see is an singular official list from Blizzard of the problems they will fix and how they will be fixed. Something like a prominent big sticky from Blizzard right on the bnet website main page.
We know they are going to add chat channels, which is great, but what of other things such as:
fixing custom games/the popularity system
add a constantly updating new game refresh to the game browser
add a game options column to the game browser
add private password protected games
add private password protected chat channels
add the ability to kick people from a game
add after game chat
add true clan support
add group replay viewing
and more ...
So of these things, which ones are Blizzard going to even tackle, and how are they going to address them? These are things which would greatly improve bnet, but is Blizzard going to actually implement them? I'd like to know, and I'd like to keep informed about these items and more.
A single Blizzard sticky on bnet regarding these things would help settle a lot of peoples concerns, and help quell much of the whining.
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I knew the popularity system would be garbage, and what do ya know... it is. Such a shame they didn't realize it was terrible in beta.
Heres to hoping these good suggestions are listened to.
Apparently they are removing maps that don't conform to their moral compass also (aka slight swearing). Fuck. That. Censoring maps is the beginning of the end (think maps based on IP's that aren't licensed).
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I prefer the Warcraft 3 System. Yes, a lot of ads were implented in the titles of some games, also spam messages. Obviously Blizzard wants to cut down within everything that can come them to cost, but the simplest way to do this would be to keep the Old system and have "admins" that can delete games that contain spam/ad/inappropriate language within the title. Like a forum
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gonna go totally crazy and say that I like the new system
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Use collapsible menus like on the left nav-bar here on TL.net - quite simply have it sorted as maps as it is now, but have an arrow beside each map to expand the map. When this is done it will display descriptions for each game. Very easy to implement, solves both problems of games of the same name cluttering the list as well as the problem of games not having any discernible identifications.
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The fact that Blizzard hosts all custom games means there's less control by the host (as they aren't actually hosting at all which on it's own is a bag of shit). I don't see them implementing any description.
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question (i didnt want to make a thread just for it): are there websites that are dedicated to custom sc2 maps?
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If the map makers were allowed to assign values for a "game mode" column, which is specific to each map. eg: allrandom, allpick etc... and then users could filter by game mode it would solve a lot of problems.
As it stands now it's better to just create a separate map for each game mode so people can easily see which one they're playing from the list.
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EPT
