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Niji87
United States112 Posts
I can understand that ease of use of the race can be an important balance factor, though. Either way, I really hope to see more games played. If one race starts to show an abnormally high win ratio while maintaining a high average game count I'd be worried, haha. If one player shows an abnormally high win rate with a high game count we should probably start cutting off his/her fingers one at a time till they're balanced with the competition. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
Stop being so god damn whiny cause no one really understands the game. its like i am back in 1998 | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On July 19 2010 11:33 Tamerlane wrote: - The average games played/player and win ratios are highest in America, then comes Europe and finally Asia. Based on these numbers, it seems the hardest to become Diamond in America. that is why upmagic got to diamond in 3 days in asia and I needed the entire second phase playing as Terran in US... lol | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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TTL
65 Posts
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
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Zignius
Netherlands33 Posts
On July 19 2010 17:42 Drowsy wrote: You can see exactly the statistics regarding how many people play what race and the fact is that they're a significant enough discrepancy between that and what people play at the top levels to easily conclude that zerg is objectively worse. The first part of that sentence is completely correct, the second part however is not. Here's why, You cannot conclude whether or not something is imbalanced by how many people use it. This is not in any way compelling evidence. It could however be superb to reinforce your claim if you had any other proof. Let me rephrase what I earlier said. These numbers do not say anything by themselves. | ||
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Darkn3ss
United States717 Posts
(They show the ".###" on SC2 website) I think links to profiles should be turned off... "/ Other than that - AWESOME! I hope they keep updating this stuff when the game is released... Does anyone know how points/etc will work when the game is released?! Will there be seasons?! Or people will just get points until they're like 999,999,999,999,999,etc.? On July 19 2010 18:04 IdrA wrote: I agree! | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
On July 19 2010 18:01 ilbh wrote: that is why upmagic got to diamond in 3 days in asia and I needed the entire second phase playing as Terran in US... lol Example of bad reasoning becoming bad information for the public The average games played/player and win ratios are highest in America, then comes Europe and finally Asia. -> Based on these numbers, it seems the hardest to become Diamond in America. If you stopped to read this you would have realised there are 0 logics and 1 conclusion. High win ratios in US servers means it's harder to get into Diamond? Think about it, it just means there are bottom feeders: 'casual gamers'. The OP is jumping to conclusions. Two empty reasoning: 1. Ranking system is based on win rate 2. Not accessing the fact it's harder to win in Asia servers because of even skill distribution (a lot of people are at equal skill levels because there are much less casual starcraft gamers in Korea). Lower win rate means it's harder to get into Diamond league. BECAUSE Lower win rate ->most of players are at equal skill levelss. If most of players have equal skills, it's harder to get to higher tier. ^Actual Reasoning That means it's much harder get into Diamond in Asia than US. The reason why upmagic got to diamond in 3 days in asia and you needed the entire second phase playing as Terran in US to get into Diamond is because he is better than you, in fact much better than you. Of course I cannot prove this since I don't know your skill level. ->am I jumping to conclusions, right now? Yes but at least it's logical. I mean seriously, bad reasoning/misleading OPs make me mad! | ||
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Niji87
United States112 Posts
=( | ||
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iiomega
Romania94 Posts
On July 19 2010 17:29 FabledIntegral wrote: Erm the population doesn't matter, it would only matter is we are assuming the game IS balanced, which is the opposite of what we are assuming. Even if there is a much higher population of Terran players than Zerg, if Zerg was OP, you'd expect more Zergs to be in the top tier than Terran. If it was balanced, then you'd expect more Terran than Zerg in the proportion relative to population. This is wrong IMO. You should assume the game IS balanced and try to prove that starting a logical argument from that and with the data we have, you end up with the conclusion that the game ISN'T balanced. Even then, you'd have to take personal preference into account (maybe most people hate zerg) so you can't jump to any conclusions regarding balance just from the number of any race in top 20/50/etc. Back on topic, this data is hard to analyse and people should be careful about what they see in it. Yes there are 3 zerg in global top 20 but their win ratios are 64.3% which is bigger than everyone else's! I could very well argue that actually this shows that Protoss is too weak as their global win ratios are lower than any other race (in top 20). Interesting data but making any comments on game balance based on this is just pointless IMO. Only thing you can make comments on is state of the ladder and community habits. EDIT: added a small clarification | ||
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Zinbiel
Sweden878 Posts
On July 19 2010 18:01 ilbh wrote: that is why upmagic got to diamond in 3 days in asia and I needed the entire second phase playing as Terran in US... lol Europe gotta be easiest then, because I reached diamond on my second day playing and I haven't even played on iccup -.- | ||
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mnck
Denmark1518 Posts
But very interesting data none the less, and I really hope Blizzard are working to solve this issue which I'm sure they're aware of... The diamond ladder is the most important for getting balance statistics... | ||
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soverRR
Sweden348 Posts
On July 19 2010 11:49 Marou wrote: for the people who stills doesnt know UnknownArt(europe #1 atm), that's Madfrog, a former swedish wc3 progamer who had a pretty enjoyable style of play. He's back from retirement and i'm looking forward to see him perform in the tourneys at release ! This. is the best news I've heard in a long time. :D MadFroG is my all-time favourite RTS player, considering how much he invented in Wc3. Lich first, gargoyleharass, etc. And yeah, he has a very enjoyable playstyle. Love the fact that he plays the same race as I do, too.  Can't wait to see replays/vods/tourneys from him once retail hits. Maybe I can even play him once and avoid getting completely noobstomped like last time. ^^ | ||
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tarsier
United Kingdom223 Posts
huk was #1 a minute ago, now it's a zerg guy. taking this data as proof of imbalance isn't really conclusive. this is, after all, the equivelent of public servers in FPS games. the real conclusive stuff will come from competitions and tournaments. imo ladder is just for fun and a training exercise. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
I've had trouble facing 50 apm protoss with me cruising along at about 100 as zerg, they're still very hard to beat. While in the same match up as Protoss once you get collosi out or high templar its rather easy to be fair. I'm having a way more relaxing and easier time as Protoss in the gold league than zerg. Because as Z you have to know everything the opponent can do in the early game, while as Terran or Protoss you basically choose what you will do. Having that said, Zerg has a whole different mechanic compared to Terran and protoss. This is why most people play Terran or protoss in the beginning. Because it is more like the games they have played earlier. Still, i think this proves its easier to get high points as terran or as protoss than as zerg. Which doesn't necesairily have to do with balance ( really, I've had a 10 win streak just because I ran into idiots ). | ||
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soverRR
Sweden348 Posts
On July 19 2010 20:38 Chaosvuistje wrote: Having that said, Zerg has a whole different mechanic compared to Terran and protoss. This is why most people play Terran or protoss in the beginning. Because it is more like the games they have played earlier. Or that's the very same reason they chose Zerg, because it's unlike anything they've played before? ^^ And they're utterly bored with those same thing? That's why I chose it anyway, can't fathom that I'd be alone here. On July 19 2010 20:35 tarsier wrote: this list changes every 10 minutes? huk was #1 a minute ago, now it's a zerg guy. Still HuK, has been the entire time. Maybe you switched to Euro by mistake? | ||
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sk`
Japan442 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
ppl testing new stuff, ppl being inactive, internal practice really amazing information but i dont think anyone should use it for arguments which race is best l<o<l actual important event games say 10 times more than this | ||
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Bubbadub
United States156 Posts
This would skew win % if you look at it straight up matchup vs matchup. In my experience, it hasn't affected my ZvT win % nearly as much as my ZvP win %, however just looking at the statistics would skew it even more in favor of "zerg is balanced / OP". I like the data you threw together overall, I have been looking for a way to compare the statistics just to see what blizzard sees when they try to buff / nerf races again, so thanks for this!  | ||
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