EPTVoid Rays - Totally awesome tricks. - Page 10
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
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Cryptic
Canada44 Posts
Basically, any void ray rush is going to destroy with this method. If two void rays can kill 3 queens, Zerg basically has to rush evo and drop 4+ spore crawlers at main/expo to defend. Same thing with Terran, they have to either rush for turrets or get a fast ghost since one void ray can kill 4 marines with shield and stim. Like I said though, I haven't tested this and it might very well not be imba, but its equally possible that it can end up winning free games for noobs who know how to A-click different things. Personally, I think it is fine in the late game, it's just the early game i'm worried about. If it turns out to be completely balanced and a little micro will hold it off i'm completely fine with leaving it in. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On July 06 2010 03:59 Batch wrote: Your solution is to this is to move your units around? As far as I know only the phoenix can shoot while moving... I don't think this technique will be any bigger deal when the Battle.net 2.0 latency kicks in. You spread the marines and it becomes much more difficult to alternate between targets thus limiting the effectiveness of the fast fire. edit: People this is not imbalanced. The number of situations where this is effective is very limited and can be dealt with pretty easily. On July 06 2010 05:34 Cryptic wrote: I think it's a neat trick which could be used effectively to boost micro output, but I think there are a few situations where this might be imba... Basically, any void ray rush is going to destroy with this method. If two void rays can kill 3 queens, Zerg basically has to rush evo and drop 4+ spore crawlers at main/expo to defend. Same thing with Terran, they have to either rush for turrets or get a fast ghost since one void ray can kill 4 marines with shield and stim. Like I said though, I haven't tested this and it might very well not be imba, but its equally possible that it can end up winning free games for noobs who know how to A-click different things. Personally, I think it is fine in the late game, it's just the early game i'm worried about. If it turns out to be completely balanced and a little micro will hold it off i'm completely fine with leaving it in. 3 queens with a transfuse will win easily so if you are that worried, make a 3rd queen early for the energy and don't drop an extra creep tumor. No one said anything about stim. Which strategies are now ruined by the fact that 4 marines lose to a microed void ray? 1/1/1 still gets a viking to kite and marine ghost will still severely outnumbers voids. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 06 2010 05:23 Playguuu wrote: Yes, this is because the voidray damage is front loaded. I expect this to change though, like they did with the colossus micro. Collosus now deal damage the second the sound (and beams) appear, all they did with the collosus is make the damage happen at the same time as the visuals, unlike previously where units would take damage, THEN be hit by the beams. which everyone can agree makes no sense. Man random micro is awesome. :D Brood Lords are the only air unit that can truly hold position micro to fire while never stopping. mutas are a close 2nd and banshees come in third with a half second delay. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
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.Soul
Canada81 Posts
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
No way should it work like this. | ||
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bongjwa
United States199 Posts
you guys are forgetting that when people first started stacking mutas, everyone screamed OP. same with hold lurkers and other micro tricks.. blizzard won't take this out it was on purpose | ||
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Puremiss
United States232 Posts
and all the T's and Z's are like "holy shit... all my workers shift queued to death in 10 seconds how is that fair? and toss got obs so they can prepare the queue beforehand and just watch the destruction T.T fix pleaseeeeee" im in the T/Z camp | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 05 2010 18:50 UnburrowedLurker wrote: Cool. I kind of hope they don't patch it. In a way, its actually balanced. You need at least two units to do it, and they wont charge up if you faze, as opposed to if you just leave them focusing. ...they wont charge, right? o_O What... your explanation on needing to units or whatever has little to relevance on whether it's balanced or not. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On July 06 2010 05:51 Puremiss wrote: i bet all the toss players are like "leave it blizz, its cool ppl will find a way to deal w/ it eventually... thats part of the game guys comon." and all the T's and Z's are like "holy shit... all my workers shift queued to death in 10 seconds how is that fair? and toss got obs so they can prepare the queue beforehand and just watch the destruction T.T fix pleaseeeeee" im in the T/Z camp Why do they need to find ways to deal with it? The current strategies already can beat microed void rays just fine. TvP: Marine ghost will still severely outnumber void rays. Having only 4 marines against a void ray build even before this trick was a recipe for loss. 1/1/1 will still get a viking to kite and marines to clean up. It is also easy to pick out the marines being shot and run back if you really feel the need. Woot defeating micro with micro ZvP: Extra queen slightly earlier for transfusion energy. Again just continue queens until you get hydralisks like you did before. For the later game concerns, how many games have you played where protoss has 8 void rays running around? You run workers away at the sight of the voids just like before. If he could spare the attention to queue attack a ton of workers then you should be attentive enough to grab them all and right click away. | ||
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Lucius2
Germany548 Posts
On July 06 2010 05:51 Puremiss wrote: i bet all the toss players are like "leave it blizz, its cool ppl will find a way to deal w/ it eventually... thats part of the game guys comon." and all the T's and Z's are like "holy shit... all my workers shift queued to death in 10 seconds how is that fair? and toss got obs so they can prepare the queue beforehand and just watch the destruction T.T fix pleaseeeeee" im in the T/Z camp when u let someone get 8 voids to oneshot your wokers, its your own fault when u couldnt finish him so far. and ye just spend 200 more gas on getting an obs... sure i never read more bs srsly, what about this: OMG HE DROPPED 4 TEMPLAR IN MY MINERAL LINE AND ALL WORKERS DEAD IN 3 SECS!111111111111 EVEN BETTER THAN 8 VOIDS | ||
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andeh
United States904 Posts
but how come protoss gets all the cool micro tricks  | ||
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
Just by watching the first video, 2 hydras aren't supposed to go down that quickly against 2 void rays....thus this ability/exploit pretty much make void ray rushes/proxy void rays almost unstoppable. *Edit: "Unstoppable" was a poor choice in wording...but hopefully you get the point....However the micro'ing will be tedius for the toss player. | ||
Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:30 Lucius2 wrote: JUST TEST IT. IT DOES FUCKIN NOT WORK WITH CHARGED VOID RAYS I think it doesn't work either, but this all-caps response is unacceptable. Better would be posting a replay / video of you testing it, or simply saying that you tested it yourself and it didn't work. Regardless, do not post like this on Teamliquid. | ||
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[RB]Black
United States55 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:56 Calamity wrote: You need to remember that this "fazing" is a TRICK like you said. Tricks don't win you games, strategies do. Also, void rays are quite easy to kill. Coming from a Terran player, stimmed marines will murder voids rays. Ghosts will make it way easier as well. If they mass void rays, you mass marines. I've done several tests using marines vs void rays where both armies have the same mineral count, but the void ray army needs a lot more gas. If you ever get surprised by a mass void ray army, you're not scouting properly. You'll have ample time to build a mass marine army with your reactored raxs unless the toss has like 8 stargates pumping out voids. Not to mention that getting armor for marines will cut the Voids damage output by a lot. According to liquipedia, they do 5 dmg in 13 attacks over 7.2 secs until they reach level three beams. (5 x 13 = 65) Having 2 armor will almost cut their damage in half. (5 - 2 = 3 x 13 = 36) btw, I am not trying to target you're post scojac but i just wanted to point out that void rays doesn't equal win. voids no longer have 3 chargeups.. i thought this was cut to two in one of the earliest patches | ||
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My5tiC4L
United States13 Posts
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adi1133
Romania109 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 06 2010 06:17 [RB]Black wrote: voids no longer have 3 chargeups.. i thought this was cut to two in one of the earliest patches they still have 3 forms, but the first 2 forms deal the same amount of damage. | ||
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Shigure
United States215 Posts
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