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I watch many commentaries and was a low Diamond player before the Beta went down. And I've noticed that although there is a general understanding that 'Gold Minerals mine faster!' there is also a lack of stated depth in the community concerning how desirable the Gold Minerals are and exactly why they are desirable. This post's purpose is to educate and clarify the precise effects of taking the Gold.
Rather the standard blue or the luxurious Gold all Mineral Patches have 1500 Minerals.
Your first base (the one you start with) will always have 8 Mineral Patches. That is 12000 Minerals. The optimal worker efficiency is approximately 2.5 workers per patch. With that presumption 20 workers is the optimal number for each main base.
-Net Worth of 8 Mineral Patches: 12000
-Net Worth of 7 Mineral Patches: 10500
-Net Worth of 6 Mineral Patches: 9000
After producing these workers that is 50 Minerals every 17 seconds (in Game Time) that can be spent on other things. Now of course it's generally best to continue production of workers even after reaching this economical critical mass to transfer to your Natural Expansion but for now I'm just talking about that single base's optimal harvesting.
-The Natural Expansion will have either 8 or 7 Mineral Patches depending on the map and how easy it is to defend.
-Other Expansions aside from your natural have 7 Mineral Patches.
-Island Expansions have 6 Mineral Patches.
-Gold Expansions have 6 Mineral Patches.
These facts may become false as map evolution changes and more or less Blizzard maps make up the professional scene. But for now these statements are accurate assessments of the state of the game.
It's plain to see that any other base except Island Expansions have higher net Mineral values than Gold Expansions. And if their color was the only difference to between a Gold Mineral Expansion than a standard blue one it would make much less sense to take it. Fortunately, however, color is not their only characteristic.
-Workers harvest Standard Minerals at 5 per trip .
-Workers harvest Gold Minerals at 7 per trip.
That is 40% faster.
And if for mathematical simplicities sake the optimal worker/mineral-patch ratio is 2.5:1 then 15 workers for a Gold Expansion is preferable.
In Game Time it takes 85 less seconds from beginning to end to saturate a Gold Expansion than a main base if you are building from one Hach/Nexus/CC.
Plainly put: Less Workers, Less Time, Faster Income.
However, because a Gold Expansion has 6 Mineral Patches compared to 8 for a standard base a fully saturated Gold Expansion does not produce a full 40% more income than a regular base, but rather less than 40%. To do the math:....
Summary:
Rate comparison:
assumptions: saturation ratio is 2.5 workers for 1 mineral patch.
8 mineral patches = 20 workers
7 mineral patches = 18 workers (rounded up)
6 mineral patches = 15 workers
Fully Saturated:
gold expansion (6 patches) VS 8 mineral patches
(6 x 1.4 = 8.4) VS 8
8.4 / 8 = 1.05
5% faster
Fully Saturated:
gold expansion (6 patches) VS 7 mineral patches
(6 x 1.4 = 8.4) VS 7
8.4 / 7 = 1.20
20% faster
Same Number of Workers:
saturated gold expansion (i.e. 15 workers) VS
(15 x 1.4 = 21) VS 15
21 / 15 = 1.4
40% faster
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Interesting, I usually save my mules, float a CC over to the old, call down the mules and even if i lose the gold ive made profit
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Hm, very informative. I always get a ridiculous amount of workers with a lot of expos but still it feels like my gas input is really slow with 3 workers on them. I usually have 3 to 1 ratio of workers to my army when playing just to get decent production going. In many cases its 4:1. Meh.
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Full saturated Gold produces 5% more income than a fullsaturated 8patch normal expansion, yet is mined out way faster. Mules are an exception here.
You can rarely take a gold as first as its too far away or blocked by a rock. So whenever you take a gold or any other expansions at that time you usually have enough wrokers left over to transfer them and instantly saturate them.
Also its 3 workers per patch.
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isnt this stuff we already know? take 1 scv and mine a patch, now mine a patch from a gold expo, extrapolate the results.
still, this is a good reminder to get gold expansions asap, as they are obviously very useful.
lets talk about mules on gold expansions, id test it myself but my sc2 computer is going in for repair
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On June 19 2010 23:39 Warri wrote:
Full saturated Gold produces 5% more income than a fullsaturated 8patch normal expansion, yet is mined out way faster. Mules are an exception here.
You can rarely take a gold as first as its too far away or blocked by a rock. So whenever you take a gold or any other expansions at that time you usually have enough wrokers left over to transfer them and instantly saturate them.
Also its 3 workers per patch.
Please. It's 2 workers per patch. Don't get this wrong anymore. Please.
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On June 20 2010 00:13 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 23:39 Warri wrote:
Full saturated Gold produces 5% more income than a fullsaturated 8patch normal expansion, yet is mined out way faster. Mules are an exception here.
You can rarely take a gold as first as its too far away or blocked by a rock. So whenever you take a gold or any other expansions at that time you usually have enough wrokers left over to transfer them and instantly saturate them.
Also its 3 workers per patch. Please. It's 2 workers per patch. Don't get this wrong anymore. Please.
You are in fact both wrong (or right) as it depends on the distance between the patch and the Cc/nex/hatch - the farthest benefits from having 3 and the closest not so much. 2.5 is therefor a pretty good estimation.
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Gold:
6 x 7 = 42 per trip
9000 minerals
Regular expansion:
8 x 5 = 40 per trip
12000 minerals.
Ignoring mules is 2 minerals a cycle worth a 1/3 smaller over all income.
I honestly dont know.
Also 7 instead of 5 may be 40% faster, but over all 42/40 isnt much.
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On June 20 2010 01:27 Barnabas wrote:
Gold:
6 x 7 = 42 per trip
9000 minerals
Regular expansion:
8 x 5 = 40 per trip
12000 minerals.
Ignoring mules is 2 minerals a cycle worth a 1/3 smaller over all income.
I honestly dont know.
Also 7 instead of 5 may be 40% faster, but over all 42/40 isnt much.
you must remember barnabas that it takes alot fewer scvs to saturate the minerals.
say 2.5 per mineral. thats roughly 5 scvs, thats 250 minerals. sure in the lategame its not huge,but in the mid game when your deciding whether to take the risky gold or the safer blue, you can have 250 more minerals for defenses for that expansion / for your army.
or perhaps your thinking of your first expansion and you only have 20 drones mining,perhaps u want both to be saturated asap. it may be a possiblity to take the gold as by the time it is made you may have 30 scvs so you may prefer to take that gold expansion instead to get the saturation up asap. just something to consider.
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On June 20 2010 01:42 Airdraken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2010 01:27 Barnabas wrote:
Gold:
6 x 7 = 42 per trip
9000 minerals
Regular expansion:
8 x 5 = 40 per trip
12000 minerals.
Ignoring mules is 2 minerals a cycle worth a 1/3 smaller over all income.
I honestly dont know.
Also 7 instead of 5 may be 40% faster, but over all 42/40 isnt much. you must remember barnabas that it takes alot fewer scvs to saturate the minerals. say 2.5 per mineral. thats roughly 5 scvs, thats 250 minerals. sure in the lategame its not huge,but in the mid game when your deciding whether to take the risky gold or the safer blue, you can have 250 more minerals for defenses for that expansion / for your army. or perhaps your thinking of your first expansion and you only have 20 drones mining,perhaps u want both to be saturated asap. it may be a possiblity to take the gold as by the time it is made you may have 30 scvs so you may prefer to take that gold expansion instead to get the saturation up asap. just something to consider.
So 6 x 2.5 = 15 scvs
And 8 x 2.5 = 20
Agreed 250 minerals. But if ur replaceing an existing expansion or ur main ull already have those 5 workers
Also, 12000 vs 9000 total minerals lifetime ur getting less of an over all investment in ur defenses. That 250 doesnt equal much long term. But lets add it to the short term list.
Recap:
Gold/regular
42/40 income per trip
9000/12000 total minerals
250 less saturation cost if entirely new base, also if new base 40% faster while building up to saturation, so its up cheaper and faster to set up, less life, slightly higher max yield rate (42/40).
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On June 19 2010 23:39 Warri wrote:
Full saturated Gold produces 5% more income than a fullsaturated 8patch normal expansion, yet is mined out way faster.
That is true.
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this thread should have a little bit of plus minus of taking gold patches. risk, reward, situations etc... Really nice mathematical analysis, can't argue with numbers
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On June 19 2010 23:25 Perdition wrote:
I watch many commentaries and was a low Diamond player before the Beta went down. And I've noticed that although there is a general understanding that 'Gold Minerals mine faster!' there is also a lack of stated depth in the community concerning how desirable the Gold Minerals are and exactly why they are desirable. This post's purpose is to educate and clarify the precise effects of taking the Gold.
Rather the standard blue or the luxurious Gold all Mineral Patches have 1500 Minerals.
Your first base (the one you start with) will always have 8 Mineral Patches. That is 12000 Minerals. The optimal worker efficiency is approximately 2.5 workers per patch. With that presumption 20 workers is the optimal number for each main base.
-Net Worth of 8 Mineral Patches: 12000
-Net Worth of 7 Mineral Patches: 10500
-Net Worth of 6 Mineral Patches: 9000
After producing these workers that is 50 Minerals every 17 seconds (in Game Time) that can be spent on other things. Now of course you it's generally best to continue production of workers even after reaching this economical critical mass to transfer to your Natural Expansion but for now I'm just talking about that single base's optimal harvesting.
-The Natural Expansion will have either 8 or 7 Mineral Patches depending on the map and how easy it is to defend.
-Other Expansions aside from your natural have 7 Mineral Patches.
-Island Expansions have 6 Mineral Patches.
-Gold Expansions have 6 Mineral Patches.
These facts may become false as map evolution changes and more or less Blizzard maps make up the professional scene when the game actually comes out. But for now these statements are accurate assessments of the state of the game.
It's plain to see that any other base except Island Expansions have higher net Mineral values than Gold Expansions. And if their color was the only difference to between a Gold Mineral Expansion than a standard blue one it would make much less sense to take it. Fortunately, however, color is not their only characteristic.
-Workers harvest Standard Minerals at 5 per trip .
-Workers harvest Gold Minerals at 7 per trip.
That is 40% faster.
And if for mathematical simplicities sake the optimal worker/mineral-patch ratio is 2.5:1 then 15 workers for a Gold Expansion is preferable. In Game Time it takes 85 less seconds from beginning to end to saturate a Gold Expansion. Plainly put: Less Workers, Less Time, Faster Income.
However, because a Gold Expansion has 6 Mineral Patches compared to 8 for a standard base a fully saturated Gold Expansion does not produce 40% more income than a regular base. Granted, it takes more more workers to saturate a regular base. But once it is saturated because it has more minerals it produces not 40% less income.
-Fully saturated with 15 workers a Gold Expansion produces 5% more income than a fully saturated base with 8 Mineral Patches.
-15 workers at a Gold Expansion harvest 40% faster than 15 workers at a base with 8 Mineral Patches.
EDIT: Revised post. Much of my math was blatantly incorrect.
Thanks for reading, I hope my post was helpfully informative. Please comment with criticism.
To sum that up very neatly:
Expansion at blue minerals good; Expansion at gold minerals better.
Now what does that mean now that you did all the mathcraft? Should you just expand to the gold right away? Well the answer to that is depends.
General rule of thumb about expanding is that if you can't keep an expansion up for 3 minutes fully saturated then it is not cost effective (correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I remember reading somewhere on TL). In terms of a Gold expo I'm sure the time for that is slightly less.
So when should you actually expand to a Gold expansion instead of a normal one? There are several situations:
1) Sneaking an expansion at the gold
You take the gold expansion and hope your opponent doesn't find it. However, this works on some maps better than others and also depends on your spawn location. For example, If you are on the same side of the map on Kulas Ravine directly North or South, sneaking a gold expansion on the other side of the map early/mid game would be easier then say Metapolis,
2) Gold expansion is logical course with map
Lost Temple is a perfect example of this (depending if its inbetween you and your opponent). Your 3rd would be close by to your main so its very safe to expand there.
3) Aggressive play
The age old tactic of being aggressive towards your opponent while expanding. In some cases, being aggressive can make you look like you are doing some kind of an all in build which your opponent needs to defend. If you make it look like you're pushing instead while expanding at the gold then you set yourself up for a more macro intensive game. Remember that the best defense is offense.
Hopefully this adds to the post! These types of timings are more for early/mid game as you should have already have mass expos should you enter into late game.
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That is a interesting find. I would have thought a gold expansion was at least 50 % better than a regular expansion.
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Hmm...so you can get access to gold minerals more quickly, but return less in the long run, since it only has 6 rocks (1500 ea) and other expos have 7-8 (usually) rocks, also at 1500 ea. There must be some long-term intersection between the amount of minerals you can spend (more you can spend, the better gold mineral expo-taking becomes) and the amount you want to save up for later...
Not all of that might make sense...but instead of deleting it all and trying to re-explain my thoughts---
TL;DR: Getting gold minerals might not be worth it early if you don't plan on spending it asap (or the risk of expanding to it might not be worth it if there's another, safer, expansion).
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Unless you have a ton of drones at the main base a gold will pay off faster because as you try to saturate the expansion the drones will be more efficient during those vital first couple minutes. Gold expansions also have a psychological effect, players do not want to allow an opponent a gold and you can count on a gold expansion drawing firepower and can use that to your advantage in unit positioning.
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Interesting stuff...I really don't have much to add, just that the Gas intake is not accounted for. Often in TvT, the gold Expansion is not really worth the trouble (Steppes of War, Blistering Sands, Gay Lava Map), and would only risk SCVs and forcing the army to be spread too thin, as the entire match up is about gas.
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On June 20 2010 13:20 Myv382 wrote:
Interesting stuff...I really don't have much to add, just that the Gas intake is not accounted for. Often in TvT, the gold Expansion is not really worth the trouble (Steppes of War, Blistering Sands, Gay Lava Map), and would only risk SCVs and forcing the army to be spread too thin, as the entire match up is about gas.
My post isn't supposed to support or devalue taking the Gold. It was to explain exactly what the Gold does.
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u guys dont take into account risk and drone count !!!!!!
edit:
Like if you over saturate, that is in theory wasting minerals because all those workers couldve been moola. If your going for gold, perhaps u can bring a portion of ur perfectly saturated natural into the gold and since the natural is nearly worn out, it may be perfect.
So especailly for zerg it gives u options to build other stuff stead of drones.
Just my $0.02
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okay, so if theoretically you float to a gold expo early, you come out ahead as long as you take <85 seconds to float there, and are able to get enough defenses to prevent an early attack?
also on desert oasis the high yields have high yield gas in addition to minerals, making those expos very desirable.
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EPT
