EPTThe inefficiency of DT tech in PvP - Page 4
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Cheezy
Sweden112 Posts
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
It's the only unit with a melee weapon, and has 2 models, it's fucking bad ass. | ||
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SleepSheep
Canada344 Posts
On June 13 2010 21:11 Cheezy wrote: tl;dr - remove dark shrine i think "tl;dr" is one of the most frequent elements found in all temp banned user's offenses, and for good reason! use it wisely, my friend! | ||
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BADSMCGEE
United States94 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On June 13 2010 12:24 Percutio wrote: That doesn't seem entirely true. Void Rays, Dark Templar, Thors, and Mutas can all be rushed and used in order to win the game fast or at least get you a big advantage. If that fails then you will be behind. However, these units can also be used without being all-in strategies. The problem is that most players go all in with DTs. Void rays, dark templars, thors and mutas are not top tier units like DT's are.... Colossi, both kinds of templars, carriers, battlecruisers, ultras and broodlords are top tier units if you consider the amount of tech needed to get to them. (Zerg is special since their unit production structures are cheaper so they have more expensive tech) What you buy is the citadel of Adun, aka you go for gateway units, either chargelots or blink stalkers, then you might transition to DT's or HT's from that. As a comparison, how many do actually rush to colossi? And if they do aren't they royally screwed by any kind of stargate build? Why should DT's be the only endtech that is always viable to rush to? | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On June 13 2010 20:09 nEAnS wrote: I don't understand what your issue is with DTs are. You're basically saying that DTs should be more viable in pvp with 1base vs 1base and you're complaining about it? DTs are a harassing unit and are not necessarily a game ender just because you want it to be. That's like saying nukes should be more viable in TvT "JUST BECAUSE." There's a right time to use every unit. DTs are fine even with the tech tree. Aside from having templar and dt's using two different buildings if you think about it, it takes the same amount of buildings to get DTs as it did in Starcraft 1. People need to stop thinking about how they can win games using cheap gimmicky tricks because it won't work on a good player. Yeah, you don't understand, and all your babbling after you admit that was just nonsense =[ --he doesn't want DT to be a game ender --there's no useful analogy to nukes in TvT --same amount of buildings is arbitrary. cost of buildings and build time of buildings are two obvious differences. what you can get on the way and soon after DT's and what they can get on the way and soon after having a Robotics, and how all those things interact, are the most to-the-point facts --he doesn't want DT as a cheap gimmicky trick. that's exactly what he DOESN'T want --cheap gimmicky tricks have been winning games against good players for SC's entire life and SC2 isn't any different | ||
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OldSkuLL
Turkey34 Posts
 - If you 4 gate, u gotta attack before he can make up any tech. That follows dark templar rush too. Many ppl thinks dt rush is anti of 4 gate but what if 4 gate player attacks earlier ? Even he fails he can see you are up to dt due to amount of zealots uve made and he can get forge in time and ruin your base. -If you are sure your oppenent is DT or fast ROBO with little amount of units. U have to wait for your second observer to scout since the first one has wait in your ramp (if u send it to his base and meanwhile he comes with DT ur likely GG) -If u see enemy's observer is up before your dark templars are dead, dont try hard. Make them Archons and take expansion meanwhile. He cant risk to attack u before getting his base safe which would cost him some units and a second observer. In this time you can make an expansion and go for cannons if he is not massing immortals. This strat used to be better in BW because you can get high templar tech as well with dark templar. -Dark Templars can be deadly in late game as well. You have to find possible routes to his mineral lines. If he attacks just warp some dark templars and get them to his mineral line while he is attacking you. There is a high possibiltiy that he wouldnt notice before u get like 10 kills.(this possbility was higher in bw because one shot killing did not used to give u a signal from minimap) -Dark Templars are very good unit in every part of game if the amount of units of both players are little. Like after a huge combat with huge casulties, you can try to support your warped units with dt since they are one of the best 1v1 melee fighter in SC2. Thats all for now. | ||
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nimbim
Germany985 Posts
Maybe edit the OP to make your point clear and avoid further 4 pages of ppl complaining about your seemingly nooby complaint? | ||
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kxr1der
United States213 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
If I where blizzard I would make the following changes ASAP: - remove Feedback from HTs and give it to DTs. make it a darkshrine upgrade. decrease the range to 3/4. - give HTs the SCBW feedback from the darkarchons(and name it differently). It was an AoE stun that scaled proportionaly to the numbers of enemy units it hits (stunningtime/enemyunits). the more units it hits the less is the duration. result: DTs could snipe unprotected casters and (T/Z) detectors. they would have a much stronger role. It could also improve pvp where phoenixes, sentries, HT's are being used. | ||
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DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
Mostly, I'd like a short reduction to dark shrine build time, so it doesn't feel like you're investing so much in dark templars. Merging DTs with with templar archives is also a commonly suggested idea, not sure how that'd pan out balance wise, though. So back to the OP: I think that if robotics tech becomes less popular, DTs will become that much stronger. Just at the moment, fast observer is way too popular. If a DT can deal sufficient damage, say, to workers or the opponent's army, then, like some other posters have suggested, it's easy enough to back tech to blink stalkers or chargelots. | ||
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slowmanrunning
Canada285 Posts
 I wish people would put a little more though into new topics, this topic in general doesn't have much stand point at all. Not to mention lots of people are going to read it, you could bother to spell out 'you' instead of shortening a 3 letter word, how hard can it be? I'm not even sure if 'oppo' was ever short for opponent.This OP is painful to try and read. Not to mention to people defending this guy saying he's complaining about the viability of dt harass, he directly complains about how dt rushes don't work the entire post | ||
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slowmanrunning
Canada285 Posts
On June 14 2010 00:42 clickrush wrote: btw... If I where blizzard I would make the following changes ASAP: - remove Feedback from HTs and give it to DTs. make it a darkshrine upgrade. decrease the range to 3/4. - give HTs the SCBW feedback from the darkarchons(and name it differently). It was an AoE stun that scaled proportionaly to the numbers of enemy units it hits (stunningtime/enemyunits). the more units it hits the less is the duration. result: DTs could snipe unprotected casters and (T/Z) detectors. they would have a much stronger role. It could also improve pvp where phoenixes, sentries, HT's are being used. I think you have some misconceptions, dark archons feedback does exactly what the ht's one does, you're thinking of maelstrom which stuns in an AoE. Plus having a permenantly stealthed spellcaster? NO | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 14 2010 01:14 slowmanrunning wrote: I think you have some misconceptions, dark archons feedback does exactly what the ht's one does, you're thinking of maelstrom which stuns in an AoE. Plus having a permenantly stealthed spellcaster? NO why? | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On June 14 2010 00:42 clickrush wrote: btw... If I where blizzard I would make the following changes ASAP: - remove Feedback from HTs and give it to DTs. make it a darkshrine upgrade. decrease the range to 3/4. - give HTs the SCBW feedback from the darkarchons(and name it differently). It was an AoE stun that scaled proportionaly to the numbers of enemy units it hits (stunningtime/enemyunits). the more units it hits the less is the duration. result: DTs could snipe unprotected casters and (T/Z) detectors. they would have a much stronger role. It could also improve pvp where phoenixes, sentries, HT's are being used. That would fuck up balance in so many ways. I think DTs are fine the way they are. Sure, PvP still is the most boring matchup in the game (even worse than ZvZ lol) and i would love to see their making Protoss mid and late game stronger, so it doesnt have to rely on 1-base-agression so much. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 14 2010 01:20 ChickenLips wrote: That would fuck up balance in so many ways. I think DTs are fine the way they are. Sure, PvP still is the most boring matchup in the game (even worse than ZvZ lol) and i would love to see their making Protoss mid and late game stronger, so it doesnt have to rely on 1-base-agression so much. why would it fuck up balance? and in what ways? | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
DTs are still fantastically useful for mid-late harass. They're either going to cause massive damage or make your opponent overcommit with cannons/obs everywhere. | ||
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Rabbet
Canada404 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 14 2010 01:30 Offhand wrote: I think the situation the OP is outlying is a complete catch-22. Of course you need to get a robo before going down to DT tech, otherwise, your lack of detectors leaves you wide open to the aforementioned DT attacks. DTs aren't particularly safe as an early harass unit and I'm okay with that. DTs are still fantastically useful for mid-late harass. They're either going to cause massive damage or make your opponent overcommit with cannons/obs everywhere. exactly. the problem with the DT tech is not that its not a good option in pvp. the problem is that its too specific/cost in general. the other high tech units that have this tech structure: 1tech building->1unit. are more versatile. | ||
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