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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:07 rei wrote: http://www.starcraft-replay.com/replays/chill-kennigit-vs-rei-ivyhae-1271690985.php There you go Man, I bet you masturbate to the memory of this every single night. | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
Under the condition of you pick the match up and map for all 7 games and allow to turn on your map hack. I will be allow to give you a 50% or 60% handicap depend on the match up and map. | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:10 kajeus wrote: Man, I bet you masturbate to the memory of this every single night.  | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
People claiming that PvP is so boring and one-dimensional because you can't fast-tech to one unit in the game effectively. Seems to me like its one-dimensional because you're thinking one-dimensionally. Stop bitching about a BW strat that doesn't work anymore and come up with something new. The reason there are so many different strats in BW is BECAUSE it is 12 years old. This game hasn't even been released yet. How many times did the "standard" strategies change in Brood War without any patch changes? The game evolves all the time, and people change the way they play. We've seen this in beta even without patches making a difference. Just give it some time, find something else to do, a different way to play. Stop moaning because your years-old BW strat isn't working for you anymore. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
all i hear are cries for things to be similar to SC1 | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:19 awu25 wrote: why cant people wait and see if some new transition will be discovered? all i hear are cries for things to be similar to SC1 then listen more carefully! | ||
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faction123
Australia949 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:07 rei wrote: http://www.starcraft-replay.com/replays/chill-kennigit-vs-rei-ivyhae-1271690985.php There you go so what does a 2v2 replay have to do with dt tech in pvp? | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:19 awu25 wrote: why cant people wait and see if some new transition will be discovered? all i hear are cries for things to be similar to SC1 I doubt its from lack of trying. The DT opener is weaker than SCBW, because A) Observers are more accesible B) HTs require an additional structure before they're accessible C) HTs pretty much suck in PvP even if they WERE accessible D) Archons aren't all that great either I don't see any way to fix all of that. If you make Observers less accessible, you really screw up Protoss newfound dependence on scouting and reacting to their opponent's composition (rather than relying entirely on timing pushes and simple brute force). You could merge the HT and DT lines, for what? HTs are still gonna suck against Blinkers, Collossi, Immortals, Void Rays and/or Phoenix combinations. All they can do is instagib Sentries before they cast Force Fields. Whoopadeedoo. The list of changes needed to bring this line into an opener that isn't All-In, and not just a late-game harassment tool, is extensive and I think, unrealistic. I have more concerns in PvP about the VERY delicate nature of 2-Gate pushes vs building an Assimilator/Cyber Core in the first 4 minutes of the game. Lost a lot of PvP games because you spot the 'lack' of Gateways in your opponent's base too late, and didn't start 2 Gateways of your own in time to match his Zealot count. | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:28 faction123 wrote: so what does a 2v2 replay have to do with dt tech in pvp? Wrong this is a 2v1 replay, watch it. | ||
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Infiltrator
Montenegro80 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:28 Bibdy wrote: I doubt its from lack of trying. The DT opener is weaker than SCBW, because A) Observers are more accesible B) HTs require an additional structure before they're accessible C) HTs pretty much suck in PvP even if they WERE accessible D) Archons aren't all that great either I don't see any way to fix all of that. If you make Observers less accessible, you really screw up Protoss newfound dependence on scouting and reacting to their opponent's composition (rather than relying entirely on timing pushes and simple brute force). You could merge the HT and DT lines, for what? HTs are still gonna suck against Blinkers, Collossi, Immortals, Void Rays and/or Phoenix combinations. All they can do is instagib Sentries before they cast Force Fields. Whoopadeedoo. The list of changes needed to bring this line into an opener that isn't All-In, and not just a late-game harassment tool, is extensive and I think, unrealistic. I have more concerns in PvP about the VERY delicate nature of 2-Gate pushes vs building an Assimilator/Cyber Core in the first 4 minutes of the game. Lost a lot of PvP games because you spot the 'lack' of Gateways in your opponent's base too late, and didn't start 2 Gateways of your own in time to match his Zealot count. I disagree on C)! HTs are pretty solid against robo tech. I think you exaggerate. they are not great but good against immortals/colossi. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:28 Bibdy wrote: I have more concerns in PvP about the VERY delicate nature of 2-Gate pushes vs building an Assimilator/Cyber Core in the first 4 minutes of the game. Lost a lot of PvP games because you spot the 'lack' of Gateways in your opponent's base too late, and didn't start 2 Gateways of your own in time to match his Zealot count. This I full-on agree with, especially on a 4-player map where they happen to scout the right way and you don't. To be honest, in the last days of Beta I was almost exclusively 2-gate opening in PvP because it's so risky if you don't. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:52 yarkO wrote: This I full-on agree with, especially on a 4-player map where they happen to scout the right way and you don't. You could just drop a second gateway to be safe... two gateways with your core isn't going to ruin you. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:54 Severedevil wrote: You could just drop a second gateway to be safe... two gateways with your core isn't going to ruin you. actually this confuses me because I build a second gateway after core anyways in a DT opening. | ||
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 15 2010 10:03 yarkO wrote: Was going to post the same thing, since I rarely 1-gate tech to anything. Lots of extra minerals with a DT opening to spend on Zealots. yeah. at least that is what we do normaly. maybe this is exactly the problem? I definitely try something out with cannons, since the DTs do their job on their own anyway. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:18 Subversion wrote: This thread is so frustrating. People claiming that PvP is so boring and one-dimensional because you can't fast-tech to one unit in the game effectively. Seems to me like its one-dimensional because you're thinking one-dimensionally. Stop bitching about a BW strat that doesn't work anymore and come up with something new. The reason there are so many different strats in BW is BECAUSE it is 12 years old. This game hasn't even been released yet. How many times did the "standard" strategies change in Brood War without any patch changes? The game evolves all the time, and people change the way they play. We've seen this in beta even without patches making a difference. Just give it some time, find something else to do, a different way to play. Stop moaning because your years-old BW strat isn't working for you anymore. You just taken the words out of my mouth. I would have said it with a bit more dignity of course. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On June 15 2010 09:54 Severedevil wrote: You could just drop a second gateway to be safe... two gateways with your core isn't going to ruin you. You can't drop the second gateway in time to match the Zealot count if you do it reactively. Of course you want to drop a second gateway. That's a no-brainer, so I don't know why you would even bother saying it. Its suicide to sit around waiting for Stalkers or Sentries when he's just going to bust through a weak Zealot-wall. The problem is it takes 65 seconds for that Gateway to finish. If you went GW->CC, and he went double-GW very early, there's a very large window where he can push with about 3-4 Zealots (he Chrono Boosted them, when you probably Chrono'd Probes up until you noticed what he's doing) when you've still only got the one, maybe two, soon to be three, sitting at your artificial choke. You have to sit there, watching him batter down Pylons or Gateways while you try and build up a similar number of Zealots to compete. But, he just keeps pumping the fuckers and overwhelms you. It doesn't really matter if you make the perfect choke with buildings and there's a magic spot where two of your Zealots can hit his one. He'll just batter down a Gateway or Pylon and beat you in production. I haven't tried GW->Forge openings. I've seen a few people do it, but I've utterly demolished those with Warp Gate pushes, warping in units to a pylon in the back of his base. Without a Stalker or Sentry, you can't kill the scouting Probe in time before he can drop Pylons back there and start Warping shit in when his Warp Gate tech is ready. Its definitely the aggressor's game in PvP. Whoever wants to play more defensive/reactively is going to get his butt whooped, which is ironic since playing Zerg or Terran is the complete opposite of that. You have to play reactive to their composition or you're going to end up doing something stupid like throwing Immortals at Hydras or Banshees | ||
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
On June 13 2010 20:09 nEAnS wrote: I don't understand what your issue is with DTs are. You're basically saying that DTs should be more viable in pvp with 1base vs 1base and you're complaining about it? DTs are a harassing unit and are not necessarily a game ender just because you want it to be. That's like saying nukes should be more viable in TvT "JUST BECAUSE." There's a right time to use every unit. DTs are fine even with the tech tree. Aside from having templar and dt's using two different buildings if you think about it, it takes the same amount of buildings to get DTs as it did in Starcraft 1. People need to stop thinking about how they can win games using cheap gimmicky tricks because it won't work on a good player. Cheap gimmicky tricks working on a good player It was already uploaded, so I just had to. | ||
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