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GooseBoy
United States66 Posts
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote: and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever. Yeah because a good split will guarantee you are a good player. Dumbass. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:36 GooseBoy wrote: Yeah because a good split will guarantee you are a good player. Dumbass. Well, it was a strong indicator in BW. I regularly studied replays of B+ level players who couldn't consistently do a perfect split, and B and lower players missed a worker most of the time it seemed :| | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5543 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
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Equalizer
Canada115 Posts
I'm fairly certain if your force your workers to collect from the nearest 4 you can out collect auto split by a small margin (~5-15 minerals). I'll try to run some tests and see what I come up with. edit Are your times in real time or game time? This depends on what version of the build order tester you used. (nevermind with enough tests I could prove it has to be real time) Also did you build more probes up to supply cap or just leave only 6 mining? (nevermind only read your description you state your probe usage in your table titles.) Finally did you do multiple tests of each type and average them to account for resource arrival times? (I really doubt multiple tests were run as all data is divisable by 5 suggesting no averaging was done) | ||
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OptimoPeach
United States137 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:38 Louder wrote: Well, it was a strong indicator in BW. I regularly studied replays of B+ level players who couldn't consistently do a perfect split, and B and lower players missed a worker most of the time it seemed :| Yeah, but correlation does not imply causation. I was only a C- player in my short SC:BW career, and my splits were perfect -- but that's because I sat there restarting games for literally hours at a time until I got it right. The thing was, that didn't do anything to improve my play. The reason higher level players can regularly do a perfect split in BW is because the skills required to compete at that level are much greater than that which is required to do something as simple as a worker split. Get good and the perfect worker splits will follow. For that reason I really think this is being blown out of proportion. That idiot saying B-B-BUT NOW THE BADDIES ARE GONNA GET A FREE PASS is making something out of nothing. Players will rank up because they improve their micro, macro, builds, strategies, etc -- NOT because something as trivial as splitting workers might suddenly be insignificant. | ||
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Zenzou
United States67 Posts
The problem I'm seeing with these kinds of tests, is that the data that is collected is of, and therefore only relevant to, that player. This is why I purpose that those who are actually interested help turn this into a kind of research project. We would need samples from different people, of different skills levels, and of course different maps. This would help prevent misconceptions and one set of findings suddenly becoming fact. | ||
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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Equalizer
Canada115 Posts
Also I can't seem to replicate Buddhist's data so I'm temped to question it. | ||
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Zenzou
United States67 Posts
On June 03 2010 14:37 condoriano wrote: You weren't "behind" by sending 2 drones to 1 patch...Even if it created 8 mineral difference... You contradict yourself with the following statement: ...because it all comes down to when you place your next building/make ovie... You then go on to say ...8 minerals never mattered even the slightest. not having the correct amount of minerals determined when you could or could not build something. So having 8 minerals sooner meant you could build stuff sooner, and therefore execute your plan sooner. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
On June 03 2010 14:46 darmousseh wrote: In the end, I really doubt it matters. If you send your scout out 1 second too early then it basically negates the insignificant potential bonus that you could have gained from doing a perfect split. Exactly, in bw doing 9 drone scout vs 12 drone scout was infinitely bigger blow to your economy compared to a slight delay of 8 minerals which wasn't even offsetting anything (because you received either 16 or 24 minerals within 1 second while you were placing your first building, so 8 minerals being slightly late didn't affect the timing) On June 03 2010 14:54 Zenzou wrote: You contradict yourself with the following statement: You then go on to say not having the correct amount of minerals determined when you could or could not build something. So having 8 minerals sooner meant you could build stuff sooner, and therefore execute your plan sooner. Read my post above, you can test it for yourself. If you split at least 3 drones to different patches you will get over a 100 with no delay, because 4th drone carrying 8 minerals being slightly delayed wasn't needed to make your overlord/pool( obviously it has to arrive before the new mining cycle of the first 3 drones ends, which always happens unless you sent your drone behind minerals) | ||
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ChApFoU
France2984 Posts
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote: and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever. Yeah because worker splitting made such a fucking huge difference in BW.Cry me a river buddy. You're probably the kind of guy that spends the rest of his free time practicing pencil tricks. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
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ChApFoU
France2984 Posts
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Zenzou
United States67 Posts
Condoriano, I'll concede that point about scouting. | ||
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dobbersp
United States94 Posts
SC:BW was exciting because it had two major gameplay aspects: 1) Strategy 2) Skill The first of which is shared by almost all RTS games, turn based games, board games, and many games of the like. A portion of Starcraft's gameplay is rooted in this (which is great!) but Starcraft is not a game that requires only a good strategy. I've heard many an "rts" gamer gripe about Starcraft because they don't think a player should be able to do better in a game because they can click faster. Well, like most hobbies, Starcraft is something that requires mechanical skill to execute properly; skill which can only be gotten with time and practice. This is why I appreciate the game more than I would appreciate a "normal" game. Mechanisms such as the auto-split and mass unit selection simplify the feats of the game and make what used to be spectacular things just ordinary. True, there are still difficult things that can be accomplished and hopefully many more to be discovered in the future, but the issue that auto-splitting points to is that the reward for accomplishing spectacular things has been marginalized in SC2. | ||
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Equalizer
Canada115 Posts
Using qxc's build order test it is possible using the six original probes and building only one and then stopping probe production to have collected 380 minerals by 1 minute real time Also since all the data is perfectly divisable by 5 it seems that the original poster only ran the tests once and did not do averaging of multiple tests making the data have a level of error. | ||
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