• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:22
CEST 01:22
KST 08:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview19Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates6GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Cheeseadelphia 2025 - Open Bracket LAN! $25,000+ WardiTV 2025 Series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates BW General Discussion Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I made an ASL quiz
Tourneys
[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Monster Hunter Wilds Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Research study on team perfo…
TrAiDoS
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 19128 users

Worker splitting: Does it really matter? - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 17 Next All
Pwere
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1556 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 01:43:25
June 03 2010 01:40 GMT
#201
I just tested it with Zerg in all four spawn points on LT using the build tester.

It seems there is a bit more randomness with zerg, as I got a difference of up to 20 minerals using the exact same method after two minutes. I was always doing 9 OV, drone to 14, and here are my results at the 2 min mark:

- Best score: 770, with a perfect F1 split on slower, having the hatchery facing the mineral line, sending first two drones to empty spot, sending the 2nd drone after OV to a different spot.
- Worst score: 725, without split, having the hatchery the wrong way, letting drones go to a single rally point.
- Best score on faster: 760.
- Best score wrong way: 755, with a perfect split, always sending new drones to empty/favorable spots.
- Worst score right way: 750, sending all workers to the same spot, and all to the rally point.
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
June 03 2010 01:46 GMT
#202
I assumed it was basically nothing, I mean the auto-split is so fast anyway.
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 01:51:00
June 03 2010 01:50 GMT
#203
I don't understand how anyone could think this is a positive thing. Why eliminate a little micro trick that used to give a very slight advantage? Of course things like MBS make the game much more hospitable to new players that might struggle with the essential mechanics of the game, but decreasing auto-split efficiency is something casual players would not even notice.
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 02:41:56
June 03 2010 02:37 GMT
#204
i'm enjoying the bashing.

a lot of people don't understand how difficult and beneficial a perfect split was in BW
you could get to C and still not get consistent good splits, and when you didn't, you raged like a bitch.

but I apologize to that dude, been moving all day and i'm tired.

On June 03 2010 06:38 Meez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:
On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance!


and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing.

Fantastic.

this is like the saddest thing ever.



THIS JUST IN: SPENDING TIME TRAINING MUSCLE MEMORY TO SPLIT WORKERS IS ACTUALLY HIGHLY SKILLED.


you try it.

splitting properly is like working on leaving the blocks in a Track race. sure the guy who has the best block form coming out of the gate isn't necessarily the guy who will win
but I can guarantee that block form is a telltale sign of the degree of skill of the runner.

caps plz.
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Santriel
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium33 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 03:15:43
June 03 2010 03:13 GMT
#205
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:
and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing.

Fantastic.

this is like the saddest thing ever.


What's sad is thinking manually splitting a few probes after a loading time which even if done properly only makes you win a fifth of a second is "important".

You moved up in the wannabe ya-me-pr0-cannot be pwnt-micro-omgzuallnubs-noskillz tree at least...

How utterly pathetic is it to get so fired up about something as minor, uninteresting and borderline psychotic ? Get out to drink or get a girl dude.

By fire be purged !
Mellotron
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States329 Posts
June 03 2010 03:26 GMT
#206
Firstly, i personally really dont care if splitting workers precisely in SC2 matters economically or not. To be honest i barely care.

But, nothing pisses me off more than these new people who have literally ZERO respect for Broodwar, and flaunt it. Lets be honest. No one can tell you that you have to respect anything in life. In fact you can go through life disrespecting every single thing and there is no law or moral code that can touch you. But i ask you this, can you look at the long and deep history of BW and not at least have minimal respect for the game and its players? Seriously, if you are here on this site, and you are playing SC2 online, and still cant muster any respect for BW or its fans then i dont know what to say to you.

New people should also consider that its not really about what is lost strategically etc when Blizzard removes things like perfect splits etc. Its not really about gameplay at all sometimes. Sometimes its just a symbol for something else. When i see a perfect split in BW, or any of the other tricks that arent easy to do, i know that this player im watching knows the game. I know he has put in the time and effort. If the tiniest actions he takes he puts 150 percent of skill for trivial amount of gain i respect him as a player. I know he knows. You can tell these types of players just by how they move their units in BW. BW is not an easy game to control perfectly. Seeing someone do it right is a symbol of their dedication and familiarity, as well as their ability to turn something difficult to do into something they can control and use rather than whine about.

New people shouldnt try to undermine a game they never really took seriously or played. Im all for moving on to SC2 with all its updated UI and fancy shit, and i do believe in time it will take an unreal level of skill to be the best at. But being purposely ignorant of the depth of BW for forum amusement is just trashy.

And the people saying that all the skills learned in overcoming the UI in BW are now "useless" in SC2 are wrong. The attitude and mindset carries over. Ill take the BW style "it doesnt matter how hard it is, i can learn to do it" approach over the SC2 "thank god i dont have to click anymore" approach any day.
Starcraft player since 1999
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
June 03 2010 03:33 GMT
#207
On June 03 2010 12:26 Mellotron wrote:
Firstly, i personally really dont care if splitting workers precisely in SC2 matters economically or not. To be honest i barely care.

But, nothing pisses me off more than these new people who have literally ZERO respect for Broodwar, and flaunt it. Lets be honest. No one can tell you that you have to respect anything in life. In fact you can go through life disrespecting every single thing and there is no law or moral code that can touch you. But i ask you this, can you look at the long and deep history of BW and not at least have minimal respect for the game and its players? Seriously, if you are here on this site, and you are playing SC2 online, and still cant muster any respect for BW or its fans then i dont know what to say to you.

New people should also consider that its not really about what is lost strategically etc when Blizzard removes things like perfect splits etc. Its not really about gameplay at all sometimes. Sometimes its just a symbol for something else. When i see a perfect split in BW, or any of the other tricks that arent easy to do, i know that this player im watching knows the game. I know he has put in the time and effort. If the tiniest actions he takes he puts 150 percent of skill for trivial amount of gain i respect him as a player. I know he knows. You can tell these types of players just by how they move their units in BW. BW is not an easy game to control perfectly. Seeing someone do it right is a symbol of their dedication and familiarity, as well as their ability to turn something difficult to do into something they can control and use rather than whine about.

New people shouldnt try to undermine a game they never really took seriously or played. Im all for moving on to SC2 with all its updated UI and fancy shit, and i do believe in time it will take an unreal level of skill to be the best at. But being purposely ignorant of the depth of BW for forum amusement is just trashy.

And the people saying that all the skills learned in overcoming the UI in BW are now "useless" in SC2 are wrong. The attitude and mindset carries over. Ill take the BW style "it doesnt matter how hard it is, i can learn to do it" approach over the SC2 "thank god i dont have to click anymore" approach any day.


Tell me, is worker splitting the ONE THING that REALLY has to be defended, of all things? =/

What's the difference between spending some time perfecting your splitting, then becoming equals with everybody else, and spending less time perfecting your splitting, then becoming equals with everybody else who spent the same amount of time? Are you saying that the person who spends 5 minutes practicing his split is superior to the one who spends 5 minutes practicing his macro?

It's all subjective. Personally, I don't find splitting significant to the point where I would waste my time practicing it.
Mellotron
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States329 Posts
June 03 2010 03:37 GMT
#208
On June 03 2010 12:13 Santriel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:
and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing.

Fantastic.

this is like the saddest thing ever.


What's sad is thinking manually splitting a few probes after a loading time which even if done properly only makes you win a fifth of a second is "important".

You moved up in the wannabe ya-me-pr0-cannot be pwnt-micro-omgzuallnubs-noskillz tree at least...

How utterly pathetic is it to get so fired up about something as minor, uninteresting and borderline psychotic ? Get out to drink or get a girl dude.



The dude wrote like a handful of lines, i dont know if id call that "fired up". Also, define "minor". Define "uninteresting". What are you even doing on a SC forum reading this topic if caring about the topic is for losers? Seriously, i am suddenly more interested in how someone could come to a SC website, browse forum topics, select "worker splitting" as his topic of choice, then come in and start braggin about how he isnt a nerd because somewhere out there, there is a beer and a female.

Starcraft player since 1999
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 03:41:48
June 03 2010 03:38 GMT
#209
On June 03 2010 06:11 Buddhist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 06:00 BlasiuS wrote:
I see no split, half split, and F1 split , but what about a Full (i.e. Perfect) Split? Has anyone tested that? Can anyone even do that?

That's what an F1 split is, lol.


I was under the impression that F1 split is where you repeatedly F1-click each worker one at a time (I don't ever use F1 to split my workers). That's NOT the same as a perfect split.

Perfect split is selecting all 6 workers, tell them to mine, then through whatever way you choose, getting each worker to a separate mineral patch before any of the workers start mining.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Mellotron
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States329 Posts
June 03 2010 03:39 GMT
#210
-"Tell me, is worker splitting the ONE THING that REALLY has to be defended, of all things?"

It quite possibly could be in a forum topic titled "Worker splitting: does it matter?"
Starcraft player since 1999
baconbits
Profile Joined April 2010
United States419 Posts
June 03 2010 03:48 GMT
#211
I don't see F1 splitting being effectively better at normal (eg, "faster") game speed. That is simply too much idle time even if you can F1+click six times in the fraction of a second (and even if it was f1 click, 6 times in 1 second, isnt that something inhuman like 720 apm?)

And as others mentioned, it really doesn't matter that much to most players. But to someone who has very clean, well thought out play, having 5 minerals 3 seconds earlier means to move that probe out 3 seconds earlier to start that pylon on exact 100 minerals-- not 105, or 110, or 100 but the probe has to shift 2 gridspaces to start it. So while being a minute and small detail, it can also be extremely important to know these things for clean play-- especially once this game leaves its infancy.
boesthius
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States11637 Posts
June 03 2010 03:48 GMT
#212
--- Nuked ---
RoMarX
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina189 Posts
June 03 2010 03:51 GMT
#213
On June 03 2010 10:50 3clipse wrote:
I don't understand how anyone could think this is a positive thing. Why eliminate a little micro trick that used to give a very slight advantage? Of course things like MBS make the game much more hospitable to new players that might struggle with the essential mechanics of the game, but decreasing auto-split efficiency is something casual players would not even notice.


so i ll exagerate a little to see if people like you can understand.
imagine if in sc1 you need to press 20 keys to make a single building, then the sc nerds would look amazed at how the pros who can do it fast, etc. but... is that skill a thing you really want in a Real Time Strategy game?? or just another pathetic brainless skill that need to be trained?? it isnt macro, it isnt micro, its just stupid old engines of an old game. its 100 % perfect and necessary to remove that kind of things.
Hellooo!!!!!!!
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
June 03 2010 03:55 GMT
#214
What the fuck are people discussing BW split for. This thread isn't about how important splitting in BW is. It's about weather or not its worth doing in SC2.
#1 Kwanro Fan
prog.ress
Profile Joined April 2010
United States142 Posts
June 03 2010 04:07 GMT
#215
On June 03 2010 12:55 Bosu wrote:
What the fuck are people discussing BW split for. This thread isn't about how important splitting in BW is. It's about weather or not its worth doing in SC2.


This. All due respect to BW and the little things that set aside the pros from the amateurs, but I'm just curious as to whether or not this has been completely nerfed or just less efficient.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland
Kletus
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada580 Posts
June 03 2010 04:13 GMT
#216
On June 03 2010 13:07 prog.ress wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 12:55 Bosu wrote:
What the fuck are people discussing BW split for. This thread isn't about how important splitting in BW is. It's about weather or not its worth doing in SC2.


This. All due respect to BW and the little things that set aside the pros from the amateurs, but I'm just curious as to whether or not this has been completely nerfed or just less efficient.


Page 9 for my analysis. That's the problem with 11page threads, no one reads anything but the OP. Can't say I blame em though.
Your resistance only serves to make my carapace harder.
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
June 03 2010 04:25 GMT
#217
i prefer doing a 3/3 split and getting my workers to the outside minerals first, just so there's less bouncing around when i rally my workers on the center minerals. i could care less about the mining efficiency honestly, but i like having all my workers on individual patches at the start
MeruFM
Profile Joined February 2010
United States167 Posts
June 03 2010 04:29 GMT
#218
On June 03 2010 12:48 boesthius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 12:26 Mellotron wrote:
Firstly, i personally really dont care if splitting workers precisely in SC2 matters economically or not. To be honest i barely care.

But, nothing pisses me off more than these new people who have literally ZERO respect for Broodwar, and flaunt it. Lets be honest. No one can tell you that you have to respect anything in life. In fact you can go through life disrespecting every single thing and there is no law or moral code that can touch you. But i ask you this, can you look at the long and deep history of BW and not at least have minimal respect for the game and its players? Seriously, if you are here on this site, and you are playing SC2 online, and still cant muster any respect for BW or its fans then i dont know what to say to you.

New people should also consider that its not really about what is lost strategically etc when Blizzard removes things like perfect splits etc. Its not really about gameplay at all sometimes. Sometimes its just a symbol for something else. When i see a perfect split in BW, or any of the other tricks that arent easy to do, i know that this player im watching knows the game. I know he has put in the time and effort. If the tiniest actions he takes he puts 150 percent of skill for trivial amount of gain i respect him as a player. I know he knows. You can tell these types of players just by how they move their units in BW. BW is not an easy game to control perfectly. Seeing someone do it right is a symbol of their dedication and familiarity, as well as their ability to turn something difficult to do into something they can control and use rather than whine about.

New people shouldnt try to undermine a game they never really took seriously or played. Im all for moving on to SC2 with all its updated UI and fancy shit, and i do believe in time it will take an unreal level of skill to be the best at. But being purposely ignorant of the depth of BW for forum amusement is just trashy.

And the people saying that all the skills learned in overcoming the UI in BW are now "useless" in SC2 are wrong. The attitude and mindset carries over. Ill take the BW style "it doesnt matter how hard it is, i can learn to do it" approach over the SC2 "thank god i dont have to click anymore" approach any day.

This guy's post is spot on, and a lot of new posters need to realize this and stop flaming like complete dickheads =/. Even through the melodrama of us BW veterans, this is a pretty big deal in high-level competitive play. There's nothing more that I can say that wouldn't be reiterating what the post I'm quoting has said.


Actually it's a TINY deal in high-level play. Anyone D+ or higher could split nearly perfectly every time in broodwars anyways.

What I'm interested in is the effect of clicking the different mineral patches for a non-split.
And then after that, microing your first workers to move to the FOUR CLOSER PATCHES. And then after that making sure the closer patches get double saturated before the farther patches.

I think that's much more rewarding micro than who can click their initial 5 or 6 workers fastest to the different minerals.
prog.ress
Profile Joined April 2010
United States142 Posts
June 03 2010 04:31 GMT
#219
On June 03 2010 13:13 Kletus wrote:
Page 9 for my analysis. That's the problem with 11page threads, no one reads anything but the OP. Can't say I blame em though.


LOL, I quit a page too soon! But you're right, it is tiring reading the same thing over and over again, especially when it gets flamed up. Thanks!
Adventure without risk is Disneyland
BigDatez
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada434 Posts
June 03 2010 04:32 GMT
#220
It's a matter of a second or so, so alot of people say "Oh no, its only a second off of mineral timing" But in reality, if you say that about so many things, they all add up.
Video games > sex (Proven fact)
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 160
ForJumy 53
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 697
Backho 22
910 15
NaDa 15
Dota 2
PGG 205
League of Legends
JimRising 407
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1658
flusha309
Foxcn263
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0590
Other Games
summit1g9779
Grubby3349
shahzam975
FrodaN845
hungrybox489
ViBE225
JuggernautJason86
KnowMe40
PPMD20
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream908
Other Games
gamesdonequick543
BasetradeTV40
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH215
• RyuSc2 54
• davetesta29
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 18
• Diggity2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22463
League of Legends
• Doublelift5211
Other Games
• imaqtpie1373
• Scarra1174
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
38m
OSC
38m
Bellum Gens Elite
10h 38m
WardiTV Invitational
14h 38m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague
19h 38m
Replay Cast
1d
CranKy Ducklings
1d 10h
SC Evo League
1d 12h
Bellum Gens Elite
1d 13h
Fire Grow Cup
1d 15h
[ Show More ]
CSO Contender
1d 17h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 18h
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
Replay Cast
2 days
SOOP Global
2 days
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
SOOP
2 days
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
AllThingsProtoss
2 days
Fire Grow Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL Code S
6 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
NC Random Cup
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.