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Worker splitting: Does it really matter? - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
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CCGaunt
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States417 Posts
June 03 2010 06:37 GMT
#241
Sigh.

Splitting was a commonly used technique in BW, to hear this seems a little depressing.
Take me to Korea
afiddy
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada108 Posts
June 03 2010 07:19 GMT
#242
What the hell? Are you guys serious (to the people complaining about how "lesser-skilled" players have a better edge now)? Do you people honestly think that the ability to split workers is a valid way to gauge whether or not a player is good? Really? Are you even listening to yourselves?
Alpha and Omega.
MrStorkie
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom697 Posts
June 03 2010 07:23 GMT
#243
I hope this isn't just one big rickroll.

1a2a3a4z5z6d7d8d9p0p
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 07:32:08
June 03 2010 07:27 GMT
#244
On June 03 2010 16:19 afiddy wrote:
What the hell? Are you guys serious (to the people complaining about how "lesser-skilled" players have a better edge now)? Do you people honestly think that the ability to split workers is a valid way to gauge whether or not a player is good? Really? Are you even listening to yourselves?


You could definitely tell if someone is bad if he couldn't split his workers consistently. It doesn't mean he's good if he splits them well, but it's a good indicator of someones experience, current shape and concentration. Good players almost never fuck their splits up.

And automated mining (and easier split) does give worse players a better edge vs someone decent, it's kind of obvious (not that they going to win because of that but an edge is an edge). Less shit to manage is definitely making things easier.

On June 03 2010 16:23 MrStorkie wrote:
I hope this isn't just one big rickroll.


It's good that you added a video to illustrate your point, we almost forgot what a rickroll was.
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
vuviper
Profile Joined June 2010
3 Posts
June 03 2010 07:55 GMT
#245
It makes perfect sense that the difference would be undetectable using this method. If hypothetically probes gather minerals at a rate of 5 minerals/4 seconds (I don't know if an actual number is out there somewhere) and we assumed that a perfect split of workers buys you an additional say .2 seconds on average for each of the five additional workers you commanded. That means the benefit is 5*.2sec*1.25mins/sec which equates to 1.25 minerals. Because you tested the difference by looking at the amount of minerals at the 1 and 2 minute mark (btw the benefit of a perfect split would not vary as time went) and minerals only are collected 5 at a time a difference of 1.25 minerals is undetectable.

A way for you to actually measure how much a split helps you is to see at precisely what time the different methods reach a certain mineral goal. The difference still would not be much, but at least you would see it.
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
June 03 2010 08:23 GMT
#246
On June 03 2010 06:02 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 05:48 Kultcher wrote:
On June 03 2010 05:36 Kyuki wrote:
lol people who think you skill is defined by splitting your workers.. haha


This. The elitism in this thread is just absurd. Do you really want the first 3 seconds of the game to be the measure of your skill as a player? Give me a break.

Ideally, every second of the game measures skill.

I can agree with this to some extent, but what's happening in this thread right now is that it's the end of the world not beeing able to get a Very small advantage because of how you split your workers - and it's not like it wasnt apparent from the beggining that splitting wasnt a huge part of the earlygame..

Regardless, I just dont think it's that big of a deal when it comes to This game, since there are plenty of other ways to meassure skill.
Mada Mada Dane
Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
June 03 2010 09:46 GMT
#247
For toss, I'm pretty sure that, no matter how you split, as long as you can get 50 mineral before your 7th probe finish, it doesn't matter that much. The rate of gather is the same throughout, except that your last probe or two might be a little "out of phase" in their cycle.

So depends on what time you stop to take a reading, you might be 5 minerals or 10 minerals or not behind at all, which translates to at most a second.
Soel
Profile Joined June 2010
90 Posts
June 03 2010 09:48 GMT
#248
I'm sorry to refute "hard evidence" but any sort of common sense would indicate that splitting your workers does make a difference.

you tell them to go to different nodes before they get to that first node. therefor they start mining quicker.

it's a small difference, but of course it is there.

there is some flaw in your research, I have no way of identifying it.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
June 03 2010 09:52 GMT
#249
99% of players are going to throw that .5 second bonus away before their barracks is out anyway
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
June 03 2010 10:47 GMT
#250
I have to laugh at the people who think your success at a game should be influenced by how fast you can click some stuff within a few seconds at the start of a game. You could train a monkey to do that. You can write a script to do it. Nobody cares that you can split workers quickly, it's not a valuable skill either in computer gaming or in life, it takes no thought, and is only a result of muscle memory and playing tons of games.

ffs, what a joke. Competitive gaming is about thinking, not splitting workers as fast as possible.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
Rashia
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden68 Posts
June 03 2010 10:57 GMT
#251
It's great that you don't have to sit and focus for something trivial as harvester micro.

The game should focus on strategy, timing and mind tricks.
Not harvester micro.

Good players will still be good, but this will help new gamers focus on the "real" stuff more.
Zenzou
Profile Joined March 2010
United States67 Posts
June 03 2010 11:44 GMT
#252
We've gotten to the point that all the relevant and useful data has been posted, and no real useful information is being added because no one is actually reading them. This thread as becomes a bunch of people whining. Can we please close this thread or get back on topic?
"Darkness is not the opposite of Light, it is the absence of Light."
Kletus
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada580 Posts
June 03 2010 13:46 GMT
#253
On June 03 2010 20:44 Zenzou wrote:
We've gotten to the point that all the relevant and useful data has been posted, and no real useful information is being added because no one is actually reading them. This thread as becomes a bunch of people whining. Can we please close this thread or get back on topic?


People are having trouble reading past the first post =(. Information posted later on shows proof that there is a difference between no split, half split, and F1 split and imo should be added to the OP.
Your resistance only serves to make my carapace harder.
Major
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Mexico539 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 14:01:20
June 03 2010 13:59 GMT
#254
On June 03 2010 18:48 Soel wrote:
I'm sorry to refute "hard evidence" but any sort of common sense would indicate that splitting your workers does make a difference.

you tell them to go to different nodes before they get to that first node. therefor they start mining quicker.

it's a small difference, but of course it is there.

there is some flaw in your research, I have no way of identifying it.


this is so true it also matters where u send ur first build scv to what exact mineral (the one who is closest to urs command center)


hell i even hate that theres automine in the game its just a removing skill from the game its almost impossible to dont have perfect economy unless u miss a supply depot or u miss building and scv and yes it does matter
Progamer
Major
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Mexico539 Posts
June 03 2010 14:01 GMT
#255
On June 03 2010 16:23 MrStorkie wrote:
I hope this isn't just one big rickroll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0








why ur in tl.net what the hell is ur problem? why u post that
Progamer
slowmanrunning
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada285 Posts
June 03 2010 14:02 GMT
#256
I don't think I'm going to stop splitting though, just because it's so fundamentally starcraft like, and what else am I going to do in the beginning? Why do people box select their workers, only to do nothing? It's simply spam to keep you fingers warm (although in bw it served a purpose)
I aim to become a hydralisk and then stop posting, cause I don't wanna be a queen...
Daedie
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium160 Posts
June 03 2010 14:08 GMT
#257
@OP: Your test is not accurate, because you are assuming continuous samples while mining happens at discrete intervals. Even though your money is the same at the 2 min mark, doesn't garuantee it's the same at the 2:00:01 mark (arbitrary example). From my experience, having played around with some splits in the build order map, there's a noticable difference between splitting and not splitting, but it's nowhere near being a full mining cycle ahead or anything, it's quite minor.
I like turtles
FreeZEternal
Profile Joined January 2003
Korea (South)3396 Posts
June 03 2010 14:10 GMT
#258
Since day 1 i have never bother splitting. I notice the AI of the probes going to the minerals was just too good so why bother.
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
June 03 2010 14:20 GMT
#259
+ Show Spoiler +
Now Watch dooooooooooooo
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me dooooooo
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me doooo
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me doooooo
Crank Dat Miner Split

Soulja Boy up in it (oh)
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Auto Mine
Then Super Man Dat Hoe
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy


Soulja Boy up in it (oh)
Watch Me Lean And Watch Me Rock
Starcraft Two Dat Hoe
Then Watch Me Crank Dat Pro Status
Super Fresh, Now Watch Me Jock
Jocking On Them Haterz Man
When I Do Dat Auto Mine
I Lean To The Left And Crank Dat Drone
(Now Yuuuuuaaaaaa!)
I'm Jocking On Yo Bitch Ass
And If We Get The Fightin
Then I'm Cocking On Your Void Ray
You Catch My MBS At Yo Local Party
Yes I Crank It Everyday
Haterz Get Mad Cuz
I Got Me Some Skillz

[Chorus]
Soulja Boy up in it(oh)
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Auto Mine
Then Super Man Dat Noob
Now Watch Me Yuuuuuaaaaaa!
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS

Soulja Boy Off In This Game
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Worker Split
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split

[Verse 2
I'm Bouncin On My Pro
Watch Me Super Soak Dat Pro
I'ma Pass It To Arab
Then He Gon Crank It Up Fo Stalkers
Haterz Wanna Be Me
Soulja Boy, I'm The Man
They Be Lookin At Base
Sayin Its The Tactics Man (Man)
Watch Me Do It (Watch Me Do It)
Split (Split)
Let's Get To It (Let's Get To It)
Yep, You Can Do It Like Me
Don't, So Don't Try Do It Like Me
Folk, I See You Tryna Do It Like Me
Man That *Split* Was Ugly

[Chorus]
Soulja Boy Off In This Hoe
Watch Me Split it
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat High Ground
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Mine
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Strategy

Soulja Boy Off In This Game
Watch Me Click it
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Strategy
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status

All to fresh up in it Pro
Watch me crank, watch me Split
Watch me crank that MBS
and super soak that Pro
Miner Split that Pro
Auto Split that Pro
MBS that Pro
Super soak that Pro
Super Soak that Pro
Super soak that Pro
Super soak that Pro
All to fresh up watch me do it
Watch me shuffle watch me do it
Watch me crank my shoulder and Auto Split
(super man do it)
Super man do it
(super man do it)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooobs!

Soulja Boy Off In This Game
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Auto Mine
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Mine
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status

Soulja Boy off in this Game
watch me crank it
watch me roll
watch me crank dat Auto Mine
then super that Pro
now watch me noooooooooooooobs! crank dat Strategy
now watch me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
now watch me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Mine
now watch me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Split


Nooooooooooooooooobs


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh
yuuuuuaa Nooooooooooooobs


Long story short- anyone that likes auto split, you have no idea what you are talking about. anyone that thinks that the split was not a cool part of the game, you have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone that thinks that you can not look at the skill of a player through the split, has no idea what you are talking about.

Please stop trying to make excuses about how SC2 has a smaller and smaller skill gap. Half of the people in this thread are trying to say- focus more on strategy... lol You all sound just like the kids that yell at startcraft speed settings on fastest. Most of you are young, and have come to this site after learning about sc2. Half of you prob could not walk when SC came out. But hey thanks for all of the input about how a competitive game should play.

SC2 is a joke. I have said it again.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
Goobahfish
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia71 Posts
June 03 2010 14:22 GMT
#260
Well, I personally hope it doesn't make a difference. What a retarded way to distinguish skill in a strategy game. It's like chess being decided by who can set up the pieces faster...

Anyway, if you want to do the test properly, you have to account for the minute mineral difference as it affects resource investment throughout the game. In simpler terms, does it affect the timing of the first probe built and if so does that affect the timing of the second probe. These things tend to snowball... realistically it should have a similar effect to delaying your mining by a 10th of a second or some minute number...
The body cannot live without the mind.
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