Worker splitting: Does it really matter? - Page 14

Misrah

United States1695 Posts

June 03 2010 14:26 GMT

#261

On June 03 2010 23:22 Goobahfish wrote:
Well, I personally hope it doesn't make a difference. What a retarded way to distinguish skill in a strategy game. It's like chess being decided by who can set up the pieces faster...

Anyway, if you want to do the test properly, you have to account for the minute mineral difference as it affects resource investment throughout the game. In simpler terms, does it affect the timing of the first probe built and if so does that affect the timing of the second probe. These things tend to snowball... realistically it should have a similar effect to delaying your mining by a 10th of a second or some minute number...

It's people like you that are slowly sucking all of the substance out of this game. Thanks. Hey goobahfish- should me make some auto macro? because clickling your buildings to build units is almost like seeing how fast you can set up the game in chess.... What a retarded way to distingush skill in a strategy game.

If you don't have good hand eye coordination, and can't move fast enough- don't play sc. Go play go, checkers, chess, ext.

+ Show Spoiler +

Now Watch dooooooooooooo
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me dooooooo
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Now Watch Me doooo
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me doooooo
Crank Dat Miner Split

Soulja Boy up in it (oh)
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Auto Mine
Then Super Man Dat Hoe
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me dooooooooo
Crank Dat Strategy

Soulja Boy up in it (oh)
Watch Me Lean And Watch Me Rock
Starcraft Two Dat Hoe
Then Watch Me Crank Dat Pro Status
Super Fresh, Now Watch Me Jock
Jocking On Them Haterz Man
When I Do Dat Auto Mine
I Lean To The Left And Crank Dat Drone
(Now Yuuuuuaaaaaa!)
I'm Jocking On Yo Bitch Ass
And If We Get The Fightin
Then I'm Cocking On Your Void Ray
You Catch My MBS At Yo Local Party
Yes I Crank It Everyday
Haterz Get Mad Cuz
I Got Me Some Skillz

[Chorus]
Soulja Boy up in it(oh)
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Auto Mine
Then Super Man Dat Noob
Now Watch Me Yuuuuuaaaaaa!
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS

Soulja Boy Off In This Game
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Worker Split
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Worker Split

[Verse 2
I'm Bouncin On My Pro
Watch Me Super Soak Dat Pro
I'ma Pass It To Arab
Then He Gon Crank It Up Fo Stalkers
Haterz Wanna Be Me
Soulja Boy, I'm The Man
They Be Lookin At Base
Sayin Its The Tactics Man (Man)
Watch Me Do It (Watch Me Do It)
Split (Split)
Let's Get To It (Let's Get To It)
Yep, You Can Do It Like Me
Don't, So Don't Try Do It Like Me
Folk, I See You Tryna Do It Like Me
Man That *Split* Was Ugly

[Chorus]
Soulja Boy Off In This Hoe
Watch Me Split it
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat High Ground
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Miner Split
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Mine
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Strategy

Soulja Boy Off In This Game
Watch Me Click it
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Strategy
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status

All to fresh up in it Pro
Watch me crank, watch me Split
Watch me crank that MBS
and super soak that Pro
Miner Split that Pro
Auto Split that Pro
MBS that Pro
Super soak that Pro
Super Soak that Pro
Super soak that Pro
Super soak that Pro
All to fresh up watch me do it
Watch me shuffle watch me do it
Watch me crank my shoulder and Auto Split
(super man do it)
Super man do it
(super man do it)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooobs!

Soulja Boy Off In This Game
Watch Me Crank It
Watch Me Roll
Watch Me Crank Dat Auto Mine
Then Super Man Dat Pro
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Strategy
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Mine
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
Now Watch Me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Pro Status

Soulja Boy off in this Game
watch me crank it
watch me roll
watch me crank dat Auto Mine
then super that Pro
now watch me noooooooooooooobs! crank dat Strategy
now watch me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat MBS
now watch me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Mine
now watch me noooooooooooooobs!
Crank Dat Auto Split

Nooooooooooooooooobs

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh
yuuuuuaa Nooooooooooooobs

Smu

Serbia164 Posts

June 03 2010 14:26 GMT

#262

Thanks for the tests, but from seeing how good ai splits them, it was kinda expected.

Only one variable remains though: whether you build the worker first or send in the starting workers to mine. Even moreso then in SC1 (seeing as you have 6 workers instead of just 4) it is absolutely the best idea to send the workers before building the new one. There is going to be a brief period of time when you hit max supply and can't up your workers for a few seconds with all the races anyways (altho for zerg, the larvae are just going to stack up, but for P and T it's wasted time) and sending 6 workers to mine puts you way more ahead on tempo then building 1 worker does. I've seen plenty of people do it wrong, so I'm just mentioning.

Misrah

United States1695 Posts

June 03 2010 14:28 GMT

#263

On June 03 2010 23:26 Smu wrote:
Thanks for the tests, but from seeing how good ai splits them, it was kinda expected. Only one variable remains though, whether you build the worker first or send in the workers. Even moreso then in SC1 (seeing as you have 6 workers instead of just 4) it is absolutely the best idea to send the workers before building the new one. There is going to be a small period when you hit max 10 or 11 supply with all the races anyways (altho for zerg, the larvae are just going to stack up) and sending 6 workers to mine puts you way moree ahead on tempo then building 1 worker does. I've seen plenty of people do it wrong, so
I'm just mentioning.

In SC1 you build your worker then send your drones to mine.

Smu

Serbia164 Posts

June 03 2010 14:30 GMT

#264

(sorry that I edited the post before you responded)

The best way to do it in SC1 is to send the workers, quickly build the worker and then split the workers. Requires fastest hand though.

Kletus

Canada580 Posts

June 03 2010 14:32 GMT

#265

And more people don't read anything but the first post to see that it actually DOES make a small difference...I vote to just close the thread please since there is no discussion going on here, just people saying the same ignorant thing over and over.

Iplaythings

Denmark9110 Posts

June 03 2010 14:34 GMT

#266

Oh well, no point trying then.

OT: For some reason i had a harder time splitting in sc2 instead of sc1, i feel that it didnt have anything to do with the increased amount of workers?
Anyone else had the same effect?

Goobahfish

Australia71 Posts

June 03 2010 14:37 GMT

#267

On June 03 2010 23:26 Misrah wrote:

sucking all of the substance

Really... the substance... that's the word you describe working splitting. Removing the substance of starcraft.

Every reply I get on this forum seems to make me die a little inside.

Yes, I would like a game where my chance of victory is based mostly on my strategic choices and less on my mastery of menial tasks which can be trivially removed by better programming.

Auto-macro button. I'm not sure how that would work. Can you explain your idea a bit better?

Orion_2kTC

United States80 Posts

June 03 2010 14:40 GMT

#268

I'm glad it doesn't matter but the purists will wave the "not enough micro" flag. I'd rather focus on army micro/macro than damn worker macro. First two workers I rally to an open patch, after that I rally to the middle and get back to more important tasks. While I respect the old school pros of BW, I remind you, this isn't BW. I'm sure if the AI and pathing capabilities existed 12 years ago, then the same mineral gathering mechanic would have been in place and we'd never have this conversation.

Misrah

United States1695 Posts

June 03 2010 14:44 GMT

#269

On June 03 2010 23:37 Goobahfish wrote:

Show nested quote +

Then go play chess kid. If you don't like the idea of having fast hands- then just get a computer to do everything for you. Why should you have to build your workers, and click your buildings. Such meaningless tasks. I mean a strategic mind should not have to waste time clicking on buildings and building units, when you could be making a strategical plan.

Why do i need to split my miners- i need to be doing something strategic in the first few seconds of game play. Why must i tell my units to move or attack, hold or patrol. I need to be thinking about strategy, units should be smart enough to figure this stuff on their own. I have strategy to think about.

Your the type of person that is sucking all of the substance from this game.

+ Show Spoiler +

Buddhist

United States658 Posts

June 03 2010 15:51 GMT

#270

On June 03 2010 23:32 Kletus wrote:
And more people don't read anything but the first post to see that it actually DOES make a small difference...I vote to just close the thread please since there is no discussion going on here, just people saying the same ignorant thing over and over.

I edited the OP to include your findings and a bit more.

XGDragon

Netherlands61 Posts

June 03 2010 16:10 GMT

#271

Huzzah. I hate splitting.

Excuse me for having fun elitists, I didn't mean to!

LolnoobInsanity

United States183 Posts

June 03 2010 16:18 GMT

#272

These tests are very interesting. However, I would like to see a test based on time, since mineral count only goes up during certain intervals of time, and by multiples of 5.

If you instead did these tests and recorded how long it took in milliseconds to get to a certain amount of minerals (say 150) then you would get more interesting results. Your tests show that splitting does absolutely nothing, but the other test would show precisely how much time you would gain. Which, IMO is a more interesting number.

rredtooth

5464 Posts

June 03 2010 18:07 GMT

#273

On June 03 2010 05:36 bias- wrote:

Show nested quote +

Agreed. Sarcastic or not, watching new, probably just SC2, posters in this thread is even more dejecting.

Show nested quote +

you're just bi-est.

gdroxor

United States639 Posts

June 03 2010 18:09 GMT

#274

I practiced to get good at splitting

vuviper

3 Posts

June 03 2010 21:54 GMT

#275

On June 03 2010 18:48 Soel wrote:
I'm sorry to refute "hard evidence" but any sort of common sense would indicate that splitting your workers does make a difference.

you tell them to go to different nodes before they get to that first node. therefor they start mining quicker.

it's a small difference, but of course it is there.

there is some flaw in your research, I have no way of identifying it.

The benefit of splitting is that you'll get to a certain mineral count a fraction of a second before someone who didn't. The only way for us to measure this difference is measuring
what that time is and would be undetectable by looking at the minerals gathered at a certain time because it only translate to <5 minerals.

Dubo

United States161 Posts

June 03 2010 22:08 GMT

#276

On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:

Show nested quote +

and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing.

Fantastic.

this is like the saddest thing ever.

He thinks it makes that much of a difference!^
IMO your first 6 workers should auto harvest.

Prefix

Canada8 Posts

June 03 2010 22:48 GMT

#277

On June 03 2010 23:26 Misrah wrote:
It's people like you that are slowly sucking all of the substance out of this game. Thanks. Hey goobahfish- should me make some auto macro? because clickling your buildings to build units is almost like seeing how fast you can set up the game in chess.... What a retarded way to distingush skill in a strategy game.

If you don't have good hand eye coordination, and can't move fast enough- don't play sc. Go play go, checkers, chess, ext.

.....

With the initial shock of getting into the game after the loading screen.. differences in machine hardware and such.. I dunno. This is such a super small part of the game I don't see how it's relevant at all.

You seem to contradict yourself. Good hand/eye and pracitce and some serious mouse skills is clearly required in most of this game... but you point out this is supposed to be a strategy game? Yes. Yes it is. Micro'ing my minors right out the gate.. totally irrelevant imo.

Disastorm

United States922 Posts

June 03 2010 22:55 GMT

#278

can someone check if 9 overlord, 10 overlord extractor trick, or 10 overlord, or even 10 drone extractor trick overlord make any difference, and if so which one is the best?

vuviper

3 Posts

June 03 2010 23:15 GMT

#279

Your tests are still an inaccurate representation of the difference between the splitting methods. you're trying to measure something a few centimeters by rounding up to the nearest decimeter. Yes at the time you measure F1 had 140 vs 135, but just a few milliseconds later the results would be 140 for f1 and half split and 135 for autosplit. then a few milliseconds after that the mineral count would be 140 140 140. The only actual meaningful data would be the values of the milliseconds between each split.

Primordial

United States2 Posts

June 03 2010 23:18 GMT

#280

On June 03 2010 03:19 Tone_ wrote:
If the split is fast enough (maybe the key component) it must make a different. Just logically?

Shouldn't knowing how to spell the word "difference" in a sentence properly make a difference?
"Just logically?"

Anyways, Loooong time reader first time poster and considering what I quoted It was well worth it, (to me).

And no, I don't believe that the worker split (only taking .5 milliseconds of a difference) matter unless both players are of equal skill and they play accordingly to .5 milliseconds and that will effect the game later on.

It was never important, but in bw you can cleary test it properly with 2 players. Both players are the same race because other races first building is different in money, I.e. Zerg 200 spawing pool, Terran and Protoss 150 for a Barracks and Gateway. The player that splits and each worker goes to each patch will have enough money for their first building. This is a face palm (falm) obvious. You didn't need to do all sorts of tests to find this out.

Anyways, I vote B.net 2.0 is crap and will not buy the game until they make it they way it was intended. A socialable game.

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