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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Toss rolls Maka with a great zealot/ht push. Hts merge into archons, archons are fat enough that they pretty much absorb the entire emp. Toss actually uses multiple hotkeys so his hts aren't grouped with his zealots, so terran has to either emp the zealots or the archon (ht are too far in back) The archons do some damage, but not enough that they're really worth focusing. So they work out to be pretty annoying. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
 )Considering Blizzard's intention for the archon is an emergency unit for if your high templar are out of energy and you need units right away, I don't think its design to have so many shields is very in line with that.After all, having mainly shields ensures the following two things: first, the unit has very high regeneration, and second, the unit will be hard-countered by EMP. I don't understand why an emergency unit needs to have high regeneration since its very purpose is to help right away, not to be a unit that you just 'have' in your army and keep with you from battle to battle. As far as the second part goes, one of the reasons for templars to go out of energy is to be EMP'd, and trying to counter that by turning two expensive high templar into an archon will most likely be less effective since another EMP will counter that unit. Of course, ghosts don't have infinite EMP's, but it's still a weakness for the archon. Given these inconsistencies in the archon I would propose for Blizzard to either tweak them to better serve their current role as emergency fighters, or make them a valid unit to transition to from templar tech that has its own uses besides just a few niche cases. | ||
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zifoon
Australia4 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:53 pyr0ma5ta wrote: Yes, when that unit has 10 HP after doing so. Wouldn't you? I wouldn't. Archon doesn't deal that much damage to your army and has a pitiful AOE. Why waste 300 Energy on Archons? If you do use EMP 4 times on the Archon, then the Archon has done his job. | ||
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bubusls
Romania61 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:51 FrozenArbiter wrote: Archons would be a lot better if depleted gases still gave 1-2 gas instead of 0, like in SC1. Yeah, they'd be good crisis units. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
Against zerg they make little sense because of their bad pathing and because for some reason hydra/roach compositions always take out archons first, so even if you have like 5-6 archons most of them won't be able to shoot even once. Archons would be quite nice if zerg would go for ling/ultra like in bw, but this is not the case. | ||
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
People here (and on the official forums) are always studying these units in a vacuum... Try to think of units as part of a plan. Or better yet, if you think a unit is useless, try to think up a plan or scenario where that unit is the core and you might surprise yourself. A unit's value is not necessarily derived from what it would do when you put it in massive army A and throw it up against massive army B. | ||
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Wonderballs
Canada253 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:51 FrozenArbiter wrote: Archons would be a lot better if depleted gases still gave 1-2 gas instead of 0, like in SC1. I don't think that makes them better, It makes entire games go longer than needed or promotes mad turt-lin. ...and archons could be WORSE! | ||
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OffResonance
Germany10 Posts
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Drogith
United States1350 Posts
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Failsafe
United States1298 Posts
It's at best partially retarded for Archons' primary to be as a contingency once High Templar are out of energy. Stuff dies when it goes to fight. When High Templar go into battle, they die first of all. Everyone knows they have low HP and do enormous damage, so any player who cares to win, makes a point of killing High Templar first of all. If High Templar are expected to expend all their energy in battle before merging into an Archon, then you're just not gonna have Archons. Either you morph an Archon before a battle or you don't morph an Archon. Balance the unit appropriately. I don't know what this thread is on about but the Archon isn't viable. It sucks. It is the worst possible use of a lot of Vespene, possibly even worse than mass Observers. On June 02 2010 23:08 Drogith wrote: I played a few 3v3 games last night using the clot-> DT-> archon approach and I have to say it worked quite effectively. They are definitely complimentary units to have in your army and great to have in quick situations. In PvP your opponent has carriers and you have DTs. You spot the carriers and morph some archons. Your archons now rip apart the carriers as they're splash damage hits the interceptors. What seems to help a lot is to tech ground attack and shield upgrades instead of armor. Even just 1 point in each one makes the archons bigger tanks and better AoE damage, just make sure to keep them behind you clots and in front of your stalkers and watch the pain. Nope On June 02 2010 19:34 Sylvr wrote: When I think of Archons, what I see is a Warp Prism dropping 2-4 HTs near someone's mineral line, dropping 2-4 storms, morphing while the Warp Prism goes into Phase Mode, calls in 3-4 Zealots and finishes whatever the HTs started and possibly takes a chunk out of the player's army when they come running in to repel the harass (Either the Zealots tank for the Archon to get behind them and deal splash, or the Archon tanks for the Zealots to get in close and rip into stuff). If nothing else, you will force your opponent to send stuff back, cause an Archon is just powerful enough that he probably can't just swat it down with whatever he happened to have sitting back at base (like a Reaper, or maybe even a Banshee). People here (and on the official forums) are always studying these units in a vacuum... Try to think of units as part of a plan. Or better yet, if you think a unit is useless, try to think up a plan or scenario where that unit is the core and you might surprise yourself. A unit's value is not necessarily derived from what it would do when you put it in massive army A and throw it up against massive army B. Yeah, and we should design nukes around the premise that they're really good in 2v2 if use them in conjunction with a Mothership's Vortex. Context is one thing but why are you so happy to relegate the Archon to post-drop-kamikaze-support? | ||
funk100
United Kingdom172 Posts
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Shuffleus
Australia764 Posts
On June 02 2010 23:25 Failsafe wrote: Blizzard should stop with their fucking intentions. They didn't intend most of what made SCBW the great game that it is. Blizzard should create units and let us decide what to do with them... ...I don't know what this thread is on about but the Archon isn't viable. It sucks. It is the worst possible use of a lot of Vespene, possibly even worse than mass Observers. Yeah, and we should design nukes around the premise that they're really good in 2v2 if use them in conjunction with a Mothership's Vortex. Context is one thing but why are you so happy to relegate the Archon to post-drop-kamikaze-support? To be honest i don't understand where you get this overly negitive attitude in respect to this unit from and in addition you have completely exaggerated his argument to an obscenity. Slyvr is correctly stating that the archon is regulated to much more of a nieche than other units, and that it's correct uses can only truely be observed in sufficient contextual situations. It is not simply enough to judge a unit by it's stats but observe it's relationship with other units within a realistic game situation, the post - storm drop pressure example he gives is an excellent case of this. I can't force you to like the archon or believe that it has incredible potential and wide contextual uses but i strongly suggest you observe it's interactions in high level games and consider the positional requirements ingame for when they would be highly effective. It is far from a waste of gas but in many cases extremely cost effective when you consider it as a by-product of HT's or DT's. | ||
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Drogith
United States1350 Posts
On June 02 2010 23:25 Failsafe wrote: Nope Because that sums everything up I'll just have to take your word for it and ignore what I saw with my own eyes. | ||
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melfice
Austria12 Posts
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orthopod
United States3 Posts
archons have the real potential to be a great part of the toss army as the only real ground to air unit that the toss relies on is the stalker. sentries...meh. i say, all it needs is a nice bump to range, rate of fire, and better collision pathing and i wouldn't feel too bad if i morphed 2 of my hts into an archon right out of the gate. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
I really want to see some bigger archon buffs! | ||
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Bidu
United States29 Posts
Possibly incorporate some new fancy mechanic where it uses shields instead of energy as a resource. But what do i know, im just a little noob  | ||
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
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CrunkOwns
United States138 Posts
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mskaa
Denmark155 Posts
When Archons are done merging they are really just meh.. | ||
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