Yesterdays Day9 Daily he showed him losing about 20 HT's to banelings over the course of the game, if he noticed the banelings he can't move away (slow HTs) he could have just archon morphed and absorbed ALL the baneling hits and been up units instead of down.

mskaa

Denmark155 Posts

June 03 2010 03:03 GMT

#142

yup pretty much.

melfice

Austria12 Posts

June 03 2010 12:20 GMT

#143

On June 03 2010 12:01 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yesterdays Day9 Daily he showed him losing about 20 HT's to banelings over the course of the game, if he noticed the banelings he can't move away (slow HTs) he could have just archon morphed and absorbed ALL the baneling hits and been up units instead of down.

I thought of the same thing. Since Archons are not "light" they would also gotten less damage per each baneling. Maybe I'll check out the math to see how many Archons you have to form to absorb a certain amount of banelings. It clearly is better not to sacrifice all HTs at once, only because to see some banelings rolling. Guarding your HTs with Zealot or Stalker wouldn't be ideal either.

pzea469

United States1520 Posts

June 03 2010 12:30 GMT

#144

i've played around with making archons. Ran into some problems....

One big problem is that they are too big. They are actually bigger than they look. Which makes it harder for them to get into the battle. They also block each other out which leads to another big problem. Their range. I swear if they had just a tiny bit more range they wouldn't be as bad. Still bad, but not BAD.

They're pathing size or whatever its called should be lowered and their range upped. Perhaps even speed increased so they don't die before they get into battle.

But one of the main things that should be changed is...... BRING THEIR SWEET SPLASH BACK!

Seltsam

United States343 Posts

June 03 2010 12:33 GMT

#145

I think another important note to make is that, while Archons are indisputably(?) less useful than they were in Starcraft and Broodwar, the new shield recharge rate helps them considerably. After a big battle, any Archon that remains alive will have a minimum of 350 health (health referring to shields + HP) by the time the next battle comes around. I'd also argue that Archons are incredibly cheap, since most of the time one High Templar doesn't live long enough to get more than 2-3 storms, and if your opponent knows anything at all about sniping them, you sometimes can't even get one.

I think a reasonable argument could be made that Archons are among the most cost-efficient units in the game.

Skee

Canada702 Posts

June 03 2010 12:42 GMT

#146

The problem with the Archon and Ultralisk are that they are large, easily target fired. Melee units that are useful are fast, and in large numbers (zealot, zergling) while large powerful melee units don't mass up and are usually support units.

Edit: im aware Archons aren't melee, but they still have to be damn close.

Doko

Argentina1737 Posts

June 03 2010 12:55 GMT

#147

I realize archons are not anywhere near as powerful in sc2 as in BW but I get the feeling a lot of people see one archon in their army and suddenly think its gonna kill an entire army by himself from the front line.

Their fire rate or range could use a buff but beyond that I find them awesome to deal with mass ling or mass mutas. Other than that yeah they are kind of lacking.

RedTerror

New Zealand742 Posts

June 03 2010 13:11 GMT

#148

I was playing some games where I went fast DTs into Archons, I got map control with DTs expand and then make archons when the get detection (this is mostly vs T) archons made from DTs are 250/250 which isn't too steep. The build was pretty powerful except when the archons had to attack up a ramp, man, they are as bad as sc:bw dragoons when attacking up a ramp.

refmac_cys.cys

United States177 Posts

June 04 2010 03:34 GMT

#149

I was just wondering about potential uses for Archons, and was thinking that they would be pretty good tanks against mech. Their size, in this case, would be an asset, as it would allow them to eat up siege tank splash and emp. And while these archons are getting pummeled by the terran mech ball, other units, (say chargelots) could be moving into melee to attack the siege tanks. And, since zealots don't cost gas, it would allow for slightly less draw on vespene supplies. I'm not saying that they should be massed, but two or so just to use as a giant meat shield would help other units engage the mech blob without being annihilated. I think.

Pjonkan

Sweden9 Posts

July 18 2010 03:30 GMT

#150

Well they are way expensive but they have a couple of uses for sure. The dps of an archon is really really high if the units are clumped up enough, you can literary kill an whole army in one second.
I will give you an example:

http://www.starcraftcheese.site90.com/replays.php?DL=52

Its a PvT Diamond
30 min long but no need to watch the whole game, the archons makes their mark in the last min!

Archerofaiur

United States4101 Posts

July 18 2010 03:39 GMT

#151

On June 02 2010 05:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Archons would be a lot better if depleted gases still gave 1-2 gas instead of 0, like in SC1.

But instead they decided to make gas "green minerals that are just harder to get"

ToxNub

Canada805 Posts

July 18 2010 04:51 GMT

#152

On June 02 2010 10:37 indczn wrote:
Ill fess up, I use archons just about every pvt and pvz. They are really good bridge while researching storm/energy upgrade. Zealot/Archon/sentry holds off most annoying terran bio attacks, is a good followup after 10gate pressure on a zerg xp. Archons are definitely useful, tanky, do good damage to bio, and are available before storm, and open up the templar tech tree, which in other threads, people are conflicted on which is better. Being cheap on minerals allows for more XP, more zealots, more warpgates.

I think archon/zealot is the hardest counter to the roach in the game. It is stupid how effective archon + zealot is at killing roaches. They are also THE best damage absorber in the game if you are able to micro them since they can regenerate their entire enormous health pool, and they are quite fast.

A raiding party with a couple of archons that never overcommits is a very strong force. But it's cool, none of you have to use them, I'll make it my signature build :p

Back

Canada505 Posts

July 18 2010 04:56 GMT

#153

What makes the Archon so clunky, though? I wanted to try chargelot+archons but I get so frustrated. They get caught in each other and get stuck on ramps. Is it just the size? Are other big units like that? Or maybe it's the short range yet not quite melee.

bLuR

Canada625 Posts

July 18 2010 04:58 GMT

#154

People forget that archons are made after your templars have used all their Mana for storms or feedback? How is it too expensive when you get 3 units for 100/300? (2 high temps/storm/emp and an Archon with 300+ hp) ... Archons are not underpowered at all. It MIGHT make it more balanced if they were considered massive units

Skee

Canada702 Posts

July 18 2010 05:26 GMT

#155

Archons do alot of extra damage after storms are used up. They have saved me before, they also morph quick enough to sometimes even help with storm drops.

Backpack

United States1776 Posts

July 18 2010 05:30 GMT

#156

Just throwing it out there, but don't forget that if you make archons with DTs than they only cost 250 gas

jacen

Austria3644 Posts

July 18 2010 05:35 GMT

#157

On June 02 2010 05:48 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
So wouldn't high templar casting feedback on the ghosts help solve the EMP issue?

i ALWAYS have trouble doing this for 2 reasons.

1) EMP has range 10, not to mention the 2 (or just 1.5) range AE.
Feedback has range 9.
2) ghosts don't stick out in a marine marauder ball ... templars stick out alot, whatever you have as toss

it seems emp'ing is magnitudes easier than feedbacking ghosts.
i have yet to find a way to effectively avoid getting emp'ed the shit out of me

SpiritAshura

United States1271 Posts

July 18 2010 05:50 GMT

#158

On July 18 2010 14:35 jacen wrote:

Show nested quote +

i ALWAYS have trouble doing this for 2 reasons.

1) EMP has range 10, not to mention the 2 (or just 1.5) range AE.
Feedback has range 9.
2) ghosts don't stick out in a marine marauder ball ... templars stick out alot, whatever you have as toss

it seems emp'ing is magnitudes easier than feedbacking ghosts.
i have yet to find a way to effectively avoid getting emp'ed the shit out of me

Seriously, this is one of the things I've struggled with as well...I just can't find them.

PhiliBiRD

United States2643 Posts

July 18 2010 05:52 GMT

#159

rofl stomped by EMP?

you realize it takes 4 emps to completely remove an archons shield.

sjschmidt93

United States2518 Posts

July 18 2010 05:54 GMT

#160

Everyone is saying EMP.

Okay, why do they suck in PvZ and PvP?