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brandonc
United States72 Posts
Still... When were Archons ever really used vs terran in sc1 anyway, so dont argue that in sc1 archons were better (vs terran). cant argue cost either, because they were the same in sc1 But yes, archons are still lacking, in sc1 you could get a few templars and archon them right out the gateway for quick muta defense. Now, without muta stack, smaller splash, crappy collision. They dont seem to be very useful against much. | ||
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Vip3ra
Norway13 Posts
They are not ment to be a main part of your army, they are there so HT without energy can do something. But they are a bit week even for that, but i think a slight range buff could fix that | ||
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Worm104
England28 Posts
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RailGuN
Singapore73 Posts
On June 02 2010 08:13 Vip3ra wrote: I say buff archon attack range from 2 to 3. Would make them more usefull. They are not ment to be a main part of your army, they are there so HT without energy can do something. But they are a bit week even for that, but i think a slight range buff could fix that Range buff would make them more useful as they really aren't fast enough to get up that close. Maybe even an attack speed buff, just a slight one. Maybe interesting stats: -Archons 1 shot zerglings and deal splash -Archons have barely enough range to attack over zealots (send in charge zealots first?) -Archons deal bonus damage against everything zerg has -With +2 weapons archons can 2 shot hydras and again plus splash damage -During an Archons attack cooldown, a hydra can attack 3 times >_> They seem kinda good on paper, but are still not all that useful =/ I'd really like to use them, cause they look really awesome DX | ||
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Rkie
United States1278 Posts
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
Unfortunately I haven't used the Archon much so I don't know anything about it, even though he's one of my favourite BW units. | ||
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RailGuN
Singapore73 Posts
On June 02 2010 08:24 scottyyy wrote: Does anyone know how big the splash damage is on the Archon? Say compared to a siege tank? Unfortunately I haven't used the Archon much so I don't know anything about it, even though he's one of my favourite BW units. I dunno about siege tanks, but Archon splash radius is like 1, so half their attack range. Edit: Apparently tank spalsh radius is 1.25 | ||
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puril
United States43 Posts
PvT, bad idea to get archons because bio builds and ghost emp are still very popular. ya it takes 4 emps, but who sends in one archon unit against a terran army? emping the archon will emp the units around it. PvZ, archons are decent to support zealots against lings and small numbers of roaches, but i haven't found it useful against any other unit. PvP, archons are useful but inefficient in this matchup, but the real killer is the introduction to good sentry forcefield placement. i want to add, since it is not a popular unit, there are less innovative strategies that incorporate the archon. so archon lovers be patient. i'm sure a year into the game, people will be doing creative stuff like dropping archons in mineral lines and such. archons kill workers pretty damn fast. as far as changing the unit, maybe shortening the morph time, but i disagree with buffing because it would upset balance against zerg. | ||
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Dekoth
United States527 Posts
Archon is a situational unit for me. I have and still do use it against Zerg going muta ling if I went templar and don't want to invest into a stargate. They are infact quite effective vs mutas, especially mixed in with stalkers and sentries. | ||
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Dawme
France58 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:09 UnburrowedLurker wrote: Archons take less damage from EMP than immortals do, and people seem to use them against Terran just fine. You should also remember that shields took 100% damage from all attacks in SC1, now nothing does bonus damage on Archons. While they could certainly be better, they are not the soft gas giants everyone thinks they are. This, it's kind of a big deal. I do think Archons need a point or two of armor, however, or possibly three range (or some sort of gliding shot so they don't bumble around clumsily). I would like to see the Frothing Ball of Psionic Energy side to Archons played up a bit. They ought to be immune to most spell effects (not EMP), and possibly phase through force fields and/or units. | ||
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KnowMe
Germany228 Posts
about the archon: i actually used it a bit in the early days of the beta as i had trouble to counter mutas in pvz. they arent bad against them but they were somehow countered by lings which was pretty weird. also they have low mobility. after canons are stronger and the splash works better now, i think that they could be pretty usefull in pvz. you obviously need storms against mass hydra then and you might have trouble with roaches. still definetly worth to try em out. additionally i dont think that they were useless before the patch. you have to feedback ghosts before deadly emps anyway and they work pretty well as meatshield and do at least some dmg to bioballs. so now you dont even need the amulet upgrade as fast in pvt as you can just feedback some ravens/ghosts/medivacs and create the archon pretty fast. i think thats actually pretty potent. storm drops with like 2 templars should be stronger now aswell as you might be able to finish some workers with the archon before help arrives. conclusion: pretty intersting change and archons were slightly underused before, not because they were way too weak. | ||
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KnowMe
Germany228 Posts
actually it could be pretty nice in pvp to counter 4/5 gate by feedbacking some sentrys and then morphing into archon. id love that actually  | ||
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SkCom
Canada229 Posts
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:46 oxxo wrote: Who knows, they might actually be good. Same way tanks were 'bad' in the beginning, but are now 'OP'... when all that's changed is 10 hp (and slight splash change). For some reason there are people that think tanks didn't have splash in the first place. Metagame is changing. Tank Splash was bugged. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Shuffleus
Australia764 Posts
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Mr.Eternity
United States143 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:48 TheAngelofDeath wrote: So wouldn't high templar castin feedback on the ghosts help solve the EMP issue? the EMP of the ghost directly counters hgh templar by completely raping their energy and then easily sniping them in 4 shots | ||
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Shuffleus
Australia764 Posts
On June 02 2010 08:30 puril wrote: PvZ, archons are decent to support zealots against lings and small numbers of roaches, but i haven't found it useful against any other unit. i want to add, since it is not a popular unit, there are less innovative strategies that incorporate the archon. so archon lovers be patient. i'm sure a year into the game, people will be doing creative stuff like dropping archons in mineral lines and such. archons kill workers pretty damn fast. as far as changing the unit, maybe shortening the morph time, but i disagree with buffing because it would upset balance against zerg. Sorry for double posting, but definate advice i would have for you in the PvZ matchup. Archons are amazing units against small hydra balls, but i'll concede they are pretty terrible against roaches. The good news however is with decent forcefields, one of the most devastating early game counters to roaches is zeal/sentry/dt, as with +1 Dt's 3hit roaches and forcefields prevent both the roaches microing away and multiple roaches stacking their damage up on the front units (out of range behind forcefield). This unit combination is rather effective and not as heavily mapped out as DT tech seems to be an afterthough to most Protoss' these days. Due to the DT/sentry/zeal > Roach and Archon/sentry/zeal > hydra dynamic, try going Dt's into Archons, rather than HT's into archons. Works wonders in the correct situations | ||
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Mr.Eternity
United States143 Posts
On June 02 2010 09:05 MooiSh wrote: Sorry for double posting, but definate advice i would have for you in the PvZ matchup. Archons are amazing units against small hydra balls, but i'll concede they are pretty terrible against roaches. The good news however is with decent forcefields, one of the most devastating early game counters to roaches is zeal/sentry/dt, as with +1 Dt's 3hit roaches and forcefields prevent both the roaches microing away and multiple roaches stacking their damage up on the front units (out of range behind forcefield). This unit combination is rather effective and not as heavily mapped out as DT tech seems to be an afterthough to most Protoss' these days. Due to the DT/sentry/zeal > Roach and Archon/sentry/zeal > hydra dynamic, try going Dt's into Archons, rather than HT's into archons. Works wonders in the correct situations when do you ever see a SMALL hydra ball by the time you have archons? | ||
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