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The Archon - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
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wankey
Profile Joined May 2010
98 Posts
July 21 2010 00:02 GMT
#261
Archons, my suggestion:

Make archons all shield (no hp)

Speed them up slightly. Give them +1 range boost. Make them massive.
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
July 21 2010 00:07 GMT
#262
On July 21 2010 07:59 palanq wrote:
King of the Beta, Huk vs. TLO, game 2: archons not all that strong against tanks and battlecruisers =/


This is what I wish happened in that game:

Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-21 00:13:33
July 21 2010 00:12 GMT
#263
On June 02 2010 05:45 theqat wrote:
to summarize: 100/300 for a unit with poor damage vs. non-bio that gets slowed by Marauders


More like a free unit with lots of HP, no modifiers, and good splash dmg vs bio balls.
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
July 21 2010 01:55 GMT
#264
On July 21 2010 07:54 Chronopolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2010 07:44 moopie wrote:
On July 21 2010 07:38 Chronopolis wrote:
On July 21 2010 07:02 Grond wrote:
On July 21 2010 04:52 andrewlt wrote:
Yeah, I don't get why people are bringing up all sorts of Terran counters in this thread. Marauder/EMP counters them but it's not like Archons were used in PvT in BW anyway.


I think its general frustration with the current state of Protoss vs Terran.




+1. Feed back is not as advertised (a spell which allows there to be spell tension between HT's and ghost).

On another note, I think a double archon drop would be killer on the mineral line, ESPECIALLY in the late game, where archons with the +3 upgrade 1shot scvs unless they have maxed armor. I have yet to see this in actual play, but on paper, it's looking pretty sweet.



Double archon drop (i.e. 4 HT's or 4 DT's worth of units) won't do much, at least outside copper leagues, since players will pull scvs within seconds and then demolish your 2 large target units. There's a reason why storm drops are king (which only need 1-2 HTs btw), since your storms can destroy most of the scvs before the player has much of a chance to react, not to mention the fact that you will storm on their 'exit' path, so there's really no getaway. 2 Archons (200/600 from 4 HTs, or 500/500 from 4 DTs) are a HUGE investment, and will not be worth the handful of scvs you will kill, not even on paper.


Storm drops don't exactly kill that many workers cause the splash radius is quite small. Storming on the exact path is rather dangerous because it usually puts you dead in the middle of thier base, hard to retreat. Also storms are rather valuable, where as archons are not so much (in a battle situation). It's similiar to an immortal drop. You are basically abusing the 2-6 seconds before the player can react and start sending units, I don't see how you could get around 4-8 worker kills in that time spawn. The most important thing is that the archon drop is repeatable, you threaten to come back any time, not just when you have gas/energy on your templars.



I think the key part of this post is storms are valuable and Archons are not and yet it takes 2 HT's to make an Archon.
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
July 21 2010 03:22 GMT
#265
On July 21 2010 10:55 Grond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2010 07:54 Chronopolis wrote:
On July 21 2010 07:44 moopie wrote:
On July 21 2010 07:38 Chronopolis wrote:
On July 21 2010 07:02 Grond wrote:
On July 21 2010 04:52 andrewlt wrote:
Yeah, I don't get why people are bringing up all sorts of Terran counters in this thread. Marauder/EMP counters them but it's not like Archons were used in PvT in BW anyway.


I think its general frustration with the current state of Protoss vs Terran.




+1. Feed back is not as advertised (a spell which allows there to be spell tension between HT's and ghost).

On another note, I think a double archon drop would be killer on the mineral line, ESPECIALLY in the late game, where archons with the +3 upgrade 1shot scvs unless they have maxed armor. I have yet to see this in actual play, but on paper, it's looking pretty sweet.



Double archon drop (i.e. 4 HT's or 4 DT's worth of units) won't do much, at least outside copper leagues, since players will pull scvs within seconds and then demolish your 2 large target units. There's a reason why storm drops are king (which only need 1-2 HTs btw), since your storms can destroy most of the scvs before the player has much of a chance to react, not to mention the fact that you will storm on their 'exit' path, so there's really no getaway. 2 Archons (200/600 from 4 HTs, or 500/500 from 4 DTs) are a HUGE investment, and will not be worth the handful of scvs you will kill, not even on paper.


Storm drops don't exactly kill that many workers cause the splash radius is quite small. Storming on the exact path is rather dangerous because it usually puts you dead in the middle of thier base, hard to retreat. Also storms are rather valuable, where as archons are not so much (in a battle situation). It's similiar to an immortal drop. You are basically abusing the 2-6 seconds before the player can react and start sending units, I don't see how you could get around 4-8 worker kills in that time spawn. The most important thing is that the archon drop is repeatable, you threaten to come back any time, not just when you have gas/energy on your templars.



I think the key part of this post is storms are valuable and Archons are not and yet it takes 2 HT's to make an Archon.


Ah, I see your point, I was unawaringly carrying over the fact that archon zealot pushes are pefectly good in PvZ, but not so much in PvT bio ball army. But perhaps against a PvT meching army, where storm is not so great, and archons way be preferable. Maybe you won't merge HT's specifically to drop them, but if you have them left over from a previous push or circumstance (to defend a push or some point, storm is too late), this could be a way to get additional ultility out of archons.
Kratisto
Profile Joined June 2008
United States199 Posts
July 21 2010 03:31 GMT
#266
It would be interesting if you could un-warp an Archon into its constituent templar.
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
July 21 2010 05:17 GMT
#267
On July 21 2010 09:02 wankey wrote:
Speed them up slightly. Give them +1 range boost. Make them massive.



this.

User was warned for this post
Zombo Joe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada850 Posts
July 21 2010 06:11 GMT
#268
On July 21 2010 12:31 Kratisto wrote:
It would be interesting if you could un-warp an Archon into its constituent templar.


That would create a lot of interesting gameplay.

I am Terranfying.
zhul4nder
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States189 Posts
July 21 2010 06:35 GMT
#269
what would the benefit be by making archons massive?
beat me. hard.
pileopoop
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada317 Posts
July 21 2010 06:37 GMT
#270
On July 21 2010 15:35 zhul4nder wrote:
what would the benefit be by making archons massive?


Not slowed by marauders.
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
July 21 2010 06:53 GMT
#271
I think range 4 would be the absolute minimum to make them competitive and 5 or 6 isn't out of the question. The Thor has range 7 vs ground and range 10 vs air and does about triple the damage of the Archon for 100 less gas.
Pocketokun
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada74 Posts
July 21 2010 07:07 GMT
#272
On June 02 2010 05:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Archons would be a lot better if depleted gases still gave 1-2 gas instead of 0, like in SC1.

Jinro just hit the spot... many heavy gas builds arent viable on just the idea of the fully depletion of the gas and thus forcing you to expand if you want more gas....
If you gotta do something, DO IT
OPSavioR
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1465 Posts
July 21 2010 07:13 GMT
#273
Archons are good vs muta....
i dunno lol
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-21 07:25:17
July 21 2010 07:24 GMT
#274
On July 21 2010 16:13 OPSavioR wrote:
Archons are good vs muta....

Not with proper micro, since mutas outrange archons and are faster. Also, sentry/stalker are more cost effective and are also useful in your army outside of mutas, where as archons are situational depending on your opponent's army composition and positioning.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
BabyFarkMcgeeZax
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada47 Posts
July 21 2010 07:29 GMT
#275
On June 02 2010 05:46 oxxo wrote:
Who knows, they might actually be good.

Same way tanks were 'bad' in the beginning, but are now 'OP'... when all that's changed is 10 hp (and slight splash change).


So true!

Same deal with the Archon's. Watch, when the game is released someone will have found a way to make Archon's look "OP".
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. yrtlmafdwnd
SmoKe93
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany162 Posts
July 21 2010 07:31 GMT
#276
Yesterday i bought an audi for 5 thousand dollars it came with a nice jacket on it.

Did i seriously just spend 5 thousand dollars on a jacket?
Percutio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1672 Posts
July 21 2010 07:37 GMT
#277
On July 21 2010 16:31 Paradox_92 wrote:
Yesterday i bought an audi for 5 thousand dollars it came with a nice jacket on it.

Did i seriously just spend 5 thousand dollars on a jacket?

If you turned the audi into the jacket after it ran out of gas then yes you spent 5 thousand dollars on a jacket.
What does it matter how I loose it?
SmoKe93
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany162 Posts
July 21 2010 07:42 GMT
#278
On July 21 2010 16:37 Percutio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2010 16:31 Paradox_92 wrote:
Yesterday i bought an audi for 5 thousand dollars it came with a nice jacket on it.

Did i seriously just spend 5 thousand dollars on a jacket?

If you turned the audi into the jacket after it ran out of gas then yes you spent 5 thousand dollars on a jacket.


Not really, if that was the case, i would have recycled my >useless< audi into a jacket
Percutio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1672 Posts
July 21 2010 07:44 GMT
#279
On July 21 2010 16:42 Paradox_92 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2010 16:37 Percutio wrote:
On July 21 2010 16:31 Paradox_92 wrote:
Yesterday i bought an audi for 5 thousand dollars it came with a nice jacket on it.

Did i seriously just spend 5 thousand dollars on a jacket?

If you turned the audi into the jacket after it ran out of gas then yes you spent 5 thousand dollars on a jacket.


Not really, if that was the case, i would have recycled my >useless< audi into a jacket

Yes, because you totally turn your audi into a jacket rather than refuel it.

That makes perfect sense which is why I see audi's at gas stations and not at the tailor's.
What does it matter how I loose it?
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
July 21 2010 08:22 GMT
#280
Give archons cloaking and detection.
Turn off the radio
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