EPTThe Archon - Page 12
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Grond
599 Posts
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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Scruff
Singapore509 Posts
I think the unit is fine as it is, or well if you want them to power up archon maybe it should cost energy for morphing. | ||
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UnburrowedLurker
United States41 Posts
And this isn't even to mention how dangerous they are to a Zerg army. | ||
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tarsier
United Kingdom223 Posts
by the way, EMP radius is only slightly larger than the archon hitbox, so 2-3 archons are the maximum you can hit with a single EMP. if you have archon's and a load of zealots then the terran EMP's the archon and doesn't have any energy to weaken the zealots. the real problem with archon's is that they're stupidly slow. they must be the slowest (almost) melee unit in the game. not even counting concussive shell, they're still too slow. they really need to be like upgraded zealot speed imo. people moan about every protoss unit versus EMP, it's quite pathetic. really, immortal is the only unit which the EMP totally cripples. EMP'd immortal becomes an expensive stalker that's slow and can't shoot air.... imo immortal shield should be immune to EMP, then TvP would be well balanced because a single ghost couldn't render the 'armor counter' horrifically useless. | ||
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x7i
United Kingdom122 Posts
- won and reinforcing/holding back in which case ht most likely can safely recharge energy for more storms - decimated the enemy and immediately pushing further, its safe to morph but you can win wo archons and you dont have to wait for morphing x), still its the best scenario - lost by a margin, slim chance of success with 12 second morph, even if morph completes rest of your forces have either died or retreated already... - got decimated, obviously no go there now, if morphing took some 3 seconds on faster... | ||
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TDC
United States197 Posts
archons are (practically) melee unit, and with its 2 range, it's weak against most ranged units. but what does most standard play based on? ranged units. MNM, Stalker+immortal, Roach Hydra. when archon will show its true power is when the opponent goes for some melee combination. Ultraling definitely would be great with archons, which any other protoss combination can't deal with efficiently. or if you're zealot heavy against a MnM ball, you could add the archon to take the damage so your chargelots wont die so easily. emp would only do 100 damage unlike in SC1 which took away all the shields. making them useful than 2 emped high templars. although if you're too low on HT, you won't have any storm at all after the emp, which would be bad. but yea i definitely think that archons can be useful, but not against ANY unit combination. people didn't go for mass archon against a terran mech which was fully ranged (and took full damage from all mech units) | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
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Jenslyn87
Denmark527 Posts
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fatduck
United States148 Posts
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dogen
Belgium108 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:51 Jarvs wrote: This is the reality as Blizzard have said this themselves. I feel that is poorly inspired design, frankly. You sound like Heimerdinger in LoL ^^ and on topic; archons are pretty good in pvz; they don't even have to be 'recycled' from templars (thats just sounds so bad). they are very good vs roach/ling with chargezeals, and are certainly fairly better vs hydras than in brood war, if they are paired with chargezeals; because of the better pathing and the chargeskill, chargezeals wont get in the archon's way too much so they can actually engage a clustered hydraball a lot easier. They also still absolutely rape mutalisks. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Archons would be a lot better if depleted gases still gave 1-2 gas instead of 0, like in SC1. This, and On June 02 2010 05:51 Jarvs wrote: This is the reality as Blizzard have said this themselves. I feel that is poorly inspired design, frankly. this. In the beginning of beta, I hated the Archon, especially considering there was no "Dark Archon". But once you come to accept the units place among everything else, it starts to make using that unit a lot easier. Archons serve the same purpose as a Zealot, they are there to eat up all that damage and EMP so your more important units won't have to. You can argue 'tanking' isn't the Zealots job also, but in all fictional reality, that's what it does best aside from cutting marauders in half. The tactful use of Archons hasn't really been explored, people will stand by Blizzards word's and say that the unit has no purpose except when you have low energy HT's. Against a bio army, or Zerg, this is already not true. Archons 'counter' bio. I have never seen a good player try to encounter a Protoss army directly when there are Archons in the front, why not make use of this scare tactic and use your 'useless' Archons to force your opponent to do something they wouldn't like. Archons probably have the fastest ground movement speed in SC2, and they do splash damage in a line. This being said, Archons are great with charge Zealots to flank and tank. There are a lot of uses for Archons, I could go on, I truthfully think they are fine as is, the only change I'd like to see is with the morphing or the HT/DT tech. When you are controlling your Archons, you can instantly kill lines of units. 3 to 4 Archons will 1 shot most units when focused, and if you focus your fire on a bio unit in the 4th row, most likely units from the first 3 rows are dieing too. Archons may look totally fucking awesome and feel like they should do more, but they are there to make use of 2 units you wouldn't be able to make use of, and give you 1 monstrous tank CAPABLE of terrible terrible damage. If you don't agree with 2 HT = 1 Archon, then don't morph it and complain about it, save your HT energy like you said is better. IMO, Archons kick many an ass, you just have to know when to use them. | ||
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brandonc
United States72 Posts
Everyone is saying, HT oom = archon, or why would u morph HTs into archons before the battle because you could storm and morph instantly, why take away the potential (even though u may be emped) to do great AE damage. But in sc2, DTs morph into archons (not news to anyone) but no one has discussed how that could be useful? DTs into base kill few scvs morph? or sneak into back and morph? its like an insta archon somewhere random. This also means you do not have to build a Templar archives (since dts, unlike in bw, come out a diff building) Yes the argument is if you want an archon you would build a HT because its cheaper as opposed to spending more to get the same unit. but just saying, anyone thought of this? | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
On July 21 2010 02:46 brandonc wrote: Here is a question/discussion starter! Everyone is saying, HT oom = archon, or why would u morph HTs into archons before the battle because you could storm and morph instantly, why take away the potential (even though u may be emped) to do great AE damage. But in sc2, DTs morph into archons (not news to anyone) but no one has discussed how that could be useful? DTs into base kill few scvs morph? or sneak into back and morph? its like an insta archon somewhere random. This also means you do not have to build a Templar archives (since dts, unlike in bw, come out a diff building) Yes the argument is if you want an archon you would build a HT because its cheaper as opposed to spending more to get the same unit. but just saying, anyone thought of this? Eh, when it comes to Archons from DT's it really is hard to find a use that is efficient or as efficient. If you are going to use the Archon to harass, why not just use the Dark Templar? DT's do 50damage a swing, are invisible, are smaller, are as fast/almost as an Archon, they just can't hit air. DT's will force detection, scans, and unit relocation. The only use I can see morphing 2 DT to a Archon is if you have too many DT's, or extra/non active DT's and needed more tanks/AA. Also, I can see DT's being used to make Archons if your opponent has mobile detection and you don't want your DT's in your army to be owned immediately, but that seems like a preference. In all though, I think nobody makes Archons from DT's because going DT is pretty specific, and you want the DT's, not an Archon, the HT seem way more suited to be morphed to an Archon, as they have a state in which they are useless, plus HT's are slow as shit. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
The archons won me the game right then and there because I used my zealots to prevent my HT from getting sniped, cleaned up most of his army with mass serial storms and used my archons to kill the remainder of his army. Archons are incredibly good use of expended templar becuase a templar heavy army typically lacks direct firepower to finish up enemy units and press your advantage - archons do exactly this. When my opponent seems those archon balls warping in they should be going "OH SHIT WHERE IS MY ARMY" not "dohohoh I have a giant army anyways, it wouldn't matter if those were battlecruisers warping in" | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On July 20 2010 18:38 tarsier wrote: so much bull**** in this thread. who seriously thinks that a terran would make mass ghost just to EMP an archon 4 times. by the way, EMP radius is only slightly larger than the archon hitbox, so 2-3 archons are the maximum you can hit with a single EMP. if you have archon's and a load of zealots then the terran EMP's the archon and doesn't have any energy to weaken the zealots. the real problem with archon's is that they're stupidly slow. they must be the slowest (almost) melee unit in the game. not even counting concussive shell, they're still too slow. they really need to be like upgraded zealot speed imo. people moan about every protoss unit versus EMP, it's quite pathetic. really, immortal is the only unit which the EMP totally cripples. EMP'd immortal becomes an expensive stalker that's slow and can't shoot air.... imo immortal shield should be immune to EMP, then TvP would be well balanced because a single ghost couldn't render the 'armor counter' horrifically useless. I don't see why you wouldn't get Ghosts vs Protoss. They nullify HTs and Immortals which puts him at a severe disadvantage and are still quite useful against everything else. | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
On July 21 2010 04:28 revy wrote: I like how 90% of posts say "they get owned by emp". As if that matters vs zerg or is any different than in SC1. it is different then sc1, they actually dont get owned nearly as bad by emp as they used to | ||
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