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Archons are quite effective in pvz because they work very well with zealots to bust down hydra spine crawler defenses. If you think about it, a archon does 35 damage, almost comparable to an immortal, but much more effective at killing hydras and zerglings. Alternatively they can fend off mutas together with stalkers, although mobility is the protoss player's biggest problem.
In pvt, the archon is good against bio balls on paper, but in-game, they suffer from getting kited almost as badly as slow lots, and get focus'd fired pretty easily. They do see some usage in later game pvt's when hts have finished storming.
PvP, the most common use is if a player is going for dts, after harrassing, or to add muscle to an army (sentries are the other "gas" unit) for some kind of push. However, later game, the archon seems to get no use, because battles tend to be collosi stalker vs zealot immortal blink stalker.
Archons are used only occasionally, you only use them when they're useful. I don't see why 65% of this thread is arguing the point of the archon's value against a bio ghost army.
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On June 02 2010 05:53 pyr0ma5ta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:50 tarsier wrote:
they get roflstomped by emp... because emping the same unit 4 times is made of win? Yes, when that unit has 10 HP after doing so. Wouldn't you?
4 EMPs are at least as expensive as an Archon :>
Seems pretty good if you use the Templar first, HT/Archon would be ridiculous if Archons were good for their cost.
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Archons are only bad relative to their cost. They could be a decent unit if they didn't cost 300 gas.
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On June 02 2010 05:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Archons would be a lot better if depleted gases still gave 1-2 gas instead of 0, like in SC1.
Very true. I really miss this change. It also REALLY hurts zerg who needs to mass expand for gas - lategame zerg has no gas at all and can't do anything but spam lings.
I think Archons are a very niche unit in this game. You are only going to make them as a way to recycle templar or as a counter to muta/ling. They actually do very well vs broodlords if they can get to them, and they tank ultras well for your other units.
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archons will most likely never be built "because you want archons" and will only ever be built in case of emergency (need AA fast or something) or just for the hell of it after a big battle and you got some templar leftover. blizzard claims that this is intentional but I cant help but feel that they barely touched protoss all beta and just decided to say it was intentional (archons sucking) while they tried to fix the terran and zerg more (who saw far far more changes in the beta). it would also explain why blizzard is content with carriers and motherships also being pretty useless.
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to be honest, Archon should be immune to all stun and slows like the Ultralisk.
It is not even a "physical" unit, it is suppose to be a ball of psi energy, it is very absurd to think that you can "slow down" an energy ball with a grenade. Lore-wise, balance-wise Archon should be immune to all harmful spells.
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well archons are fine vs t, they are pretty damn tanky, no armor weaknesses, and just rape the shit outa mnm. only problem is that they get slowed, i think they are a good substitude to collosus.
i'd say wait before we make any rash decisions, the game seems pretty balanced. i have beef with banshees and how abusable they are, but meh build orders will probably gear to a faster lair tech later if that shit keeps happening
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On July 19 2010 08:41 Ideas wrote:
archons will most likely never be built "because you want archons" and will only ever be built in case of emergency (need AA fast or something) or just for the hell of it after a big battle and you got some templar leftover. blizzard claims that this is intentional but I cant help but feel that they barely touched protoss all beta and just decided to say it was intentional (archons sucking) while they tried to fix the terran and zerg more (who saw far far more changes in the beta). it would also explain why blizzard is content with carriers and motherships also being pretty useless.
Watch the replay, I'd say both archons and mothership is very viable!
http://www.starcraftcheese.site90.com/replays.php?DL=52
Tho I guess a emp would stop the vortex, but u could feedback the ghosts first or sneak in with the mothership after engage. Donno wich has longer range, the feedback or the vortex?
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On July 18 2010 14:50 SpiritAshura wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 14:35 jacen wrote:On June 02 2010 05:48 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
So wouldn't high templar casting feedback on the ghosts help solve the EMP issue? i ALWAYS have trouble doing this for 2 reasons. 1) EMP has range 10, not to mention the 2 (or just 1.5) range AE. Feedback has range 9. 2) ghosts don't stick out in a marine marauder ball ... templars stick out alot, whatever you have as tossit seems emp'ing is magnitudes easier than feedbacking ghosts. i have yet to find a way to effectively avoid getting emp'ed the shit out of me  Seriously, this is one of the things I've struggled with as well...I just can't find them.
Just show health bars when encountering the ball. Their energy bar will stick out like a sore thumb.
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everyone complains about EMP , but in SC1 EMP was way more effective to archons than in SC2 where it only takes like 100 shields.
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On June 02 2010 05:47 pyr0ma5ta wrote:
They cost a zillion gas, and get roflstomped by EMP?
Also, their range and size is hilaribad.
how do they get roflstomped by emp? you need 4 EMPs to clear an archons shield..
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The archon is useful in a handful of situations, just not as a standalone unit. They really are just something to make templar somewhat useful when they're out of energy. I have had them tip the scales for me in close battles where we both wipe out one another's main army and I have maybe half a dozen gateway units and a bunch of empty HTs in the back . This is especially true against zerg because of the fact that everything is bio and move in clumps. When that close battle is over and 3-4 archons with a half a dozen gate units continue pushing they are super effective at cleaning up the smaller numbers of reinforcing units.
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On June 02 2010 05:48 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
So wouldn't high templar castin feedback on the ghosts help solve the EMP issue?
EMP has longer range and Ghosts can cloak. Feedback effects 1 target, EMP is AoE.
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On July 19 2010 14:47 Meatloaf wrote:
everyone complains about EMP , but in SC1 EMP was way more effective to archons than in SC2 where it only takes like 100 shields.
EMP in SC2 is cheap barracks tech instead of expensive high tier SC1 EMP/
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Well Huk showed some nice archon play in the Day9 tournament, they make a nice addition to immortals against siege tanks, though I think they need just a tiny buff, because the cost just isn't worth it.
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in the 2. game TLO vs. HuK , HuK warps in 3 high templer (before getting the khaydarian amulet)
and imminently warps 2 of them into an archon.
isn't that a waist of gas? because he had the dark shrine up in the back of his base and he could have warped in two DTs instead of the ht...
i dont see the point a lot of people a afraid aof going mass archons because of the amount of gas
2 dt = 250/250 = 1 archon
2 ht = 100/300 = 1 archon
the fact that his gas was high at that point in the game might be the reason for that but in the late game he has like 10 archons and the 500 gas, he could have saved there, could have been very useful..
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I can't see any reason to make Archons vs Terran other than having absolutely no use for your gas at all which can certainly be the case. If the Terran has decent numbers of Ghosts and Vikings gas units are pretty much nullifed but that certainly includes Archons as well.
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Honestly, I now respect the archon as a viable unit after watching some replay in which archons zapped everything in sight. Come release I plan on using them more often, possibly even getting ht's and skipping the storm tech and just getting archons
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Shortly thereafter you will watch your 900 gas worth of Archons get roflstomped by 300 gas worth of Marauders, assuming he just doesn't EMP you. I think Archons will need a range of 4 and immunity to slow before it's a worthwhile unit.
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On July 20 2010 16:14 Grond wrote:
Shortly thereafter you will watch your 900 gas worth of Archons get roflstomped by 300 gas worth of Marauders, assuming he just doesn't EMP you. I think Archons will need a range of 4 and immunity to slow before it's a worthwhile unit.
I don't see this happening as blizzard has already stated that they don't intend archons to be a staple in armies like it was in sc1, but rather a clutch move to make when HT's run out of energy
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EPT
