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On May 27 2010 11:39 Mykill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:28 Lightwip wrote:
I have a feeling that KeSPA will eat them alive. At least for BW. No they won't KeSPA's got shit on Blizzard. BW is Blizzard's game so they can just not allow KeSPA to broadcast it.
Imagine BW without all of the players on the KeSPA rankings. What would we have then?
No more than a few mediocre players from the foreign scene and maybe a few aspiring progamers. A lot of the top progamers would most likely stick with KeSPA through anything, and their fans will follow. I wouldn't call that worthless. In fact, that's very significant.
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On May 27 2010 11:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:
I love how quickly Kespa goes from the villain banning celebrations and giving players losses for typing "ppp" to some sort of fallen hero just because BIG BAD BLIZZARD is pushing them around.
Did we forget all the crazy bullshit Kespa pulled during the years? Do you really think Kespa, a marketing organization made of some of the biggest, most powerful companies in Korea (and in Samsung's case, the world), gives a shit about the "integrity of esports" any more than what affects the bottom line?
No, but at least Kespa understands how the market works and has been there from the beginning. Has the Blizzard executives ever attended proleague matches?
Blizzard wants to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it according to their rules. What many of us here realizes is that this rebuilding process may not work, and everything will just be left in ruins, especially with someone as inexperienced as Blizzard in charge.
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United States3824 Posts
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On May 27 2010 11:12 Smikis wrote:
you all make it sound like pro teams just gonna disappear.. you make it sound like kespa actually owns anything, its those media, telecommunication and other giants like intel and so on, who really owns the team, licensed or not under kespa, do you think they will care
KeSPA IS the media companies and telecommunication giants that own the teams... -_- So yes, they do actually own everything from the teams to the channels to the facilities and yes, they will probably care. The horribly ironic thing here is that CJ (a member of KeSPA) owns GomTV so KeSPA to a certain extent owns GomTV too... -_-
On May 27 2010 11:12 Smikis wrote:
Nothing stops them from recreating, if they cant move, you guys make it sound like those commentators gonna disappear ( which 90% of you cant understand.. anyway ) they will get jobs at gom and so on, gom had 1 tourney, and you make it sound like it was terrible, ofcs when you compare it to 5 leagues.. what stops gom from making leagues and tourneys and all other stuff.. noone..
Well after removing all of the current teams (since they're owned by KeSPA), which teams do you think will be involved in GOM's tournaments? Will they just be amateur clans or will there be a consistent line-up of teams? If it's the latter, they're going to need to find new sponsors to create the new teams for their tournaments. It's certainly not impossible, but there really aren't a whole lot of companies out there with the resources to support a pro-gaming team on the level KeSPA currently has. There really isn't a whole lot of money in owning a pro-gaming team. It's not like owning a basketball team or something where you are getting money from the ticket and concession sales...
On May 27 2010 11:12 Smikis wrote:
change isnt a bad thing.. maybe you guys should grow up.. or half of you gonna have nightmares once you move out to live on your own..
No, change isn't necessarily a bad thing. It only becomes bad if it's a change for the worse and there's a lot of people that think it might very well be that.
On May 27 2010 11:12 Smikis wrote:
i personally welcome this.. gom tourney was awesome to watch
I think at this point there are still many questions left in the air to be answered before we can really look on this endeavor with any hope. I'm sure we will hear more details in the near future so we should probably wait until then before we can have any idea how it will turn out. As of right now, pretty much the only information is that a deal has been struck. We've got no information as to what kind of leagues, tournaments, etc. will come out of this.
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On May 27 2010 11:46 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:39 Mykill wrote:On May 27 2010 11:28 Lightwip wrote:
I have a feeling that KeSPA will eat them alive. At least for BW. No they won't KeSPA's got shit on Blizzard. BW is Blizzard's game so they can just not allow KeSPA to broadcast it. Imagine BW without all of the players on the KeSPA rankings. What would we have then? No more than a few mediocre players from the foreign scene and maybe a few aspiring progamers. A lot of the top progamers would most likely stick with KeSPA through anything, and their fans will follow. I wouldn't call that worthless. In fact, that's very significant.
Imagine the top players on the KeSPA rankings being unable to play BW because they're on KeSPA teams. They're going to jump ship if the game moves from KeSPA to a future league, simply because they don't have any other choice.
KeSPA tried to play hardball without a throwing arm.
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On May 27 2010 11:52 Sc1pio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:46 Lightwip wrote:On May 27 2010 11:39 Mykill wrote:On May 27 2010 11:28 Lightwip wrote:
I have a feeling that KeSPA will eat them alive. At least for BW. No they won't KeSPA's got shit on Blizzard. BW is Blizzard's game so they can just not allow KeSPA to broadcast it. Imagine BW without all of the players on the KeSPA rankings. What would we have then? No more than a few mediocre players from the foreign scene and maybe a few aspiring progamers. A lot of the top progamers would most likely stick with KeSPA through anything, and their fans will follow. I wouldn't call that worthless. In fact, that's very significant. Imagine the top players on the KeSPA rankings being unable to play BW because they're on KeSPA teams. They're going to jump ship if the game moves from KeSPA to a future league, simply because they don't have any other choice. KeSPA tried to play hardball without a throwing arm.
And who's going to pay the salaries?
Blizzard hardly spends a hundredth (in e-Sports) of what a single team does.
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I think this will turn out really bad for blizzard....
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You act like good starcraft players wouldn't be around without KeSPA. They'd just be somewhere else.
I just don't see how eSports can continue to grow in its current format. What current sport relies on sponsorship alone?
You want everything from blizzard, but you want to give them nothing.
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On May 27 2010 11:49 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:
I love how quickly Kespa goes from the villain banning celebrations and giving players losses for typing "ppp" to some sort of fallen hero just because BIG BAD BLIZZARD is pushing them around.
Did we forget all the crazy bullshit Kespa pulled during the years? Do you really think Kespa, a marketing organization made of some of the biggest, most powerful companies in Korea (and in Samsung's case, the world), gives a shit about the "integrity of esports" any more than what affects the bottom line? No, but at least Kespa understands how the market works and has been there from the beginning. Has the Blizzard executives ever attended proleague matches? Blizzard wants to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it according to their rules. What many of us here realizes is that this rebuilding process may not work, and everything will just be left in ruins, especially with someone as inexperienced as Blizzard in charge.
They were helping sponsor Gom Invitationals until Kespa nut-shotted those....
so yes, probably.
Right now, can e-sports really be damaged any more than the match fixing scandal? Nothing worse could happen than that, and it seems like it will rebound. I'm not worried about Blizzard "killing" e-sports. The Gom TV invitationals were great
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On May 27 2010 11:56 Geolemon wrote:
You act like good starcraft players wouldn't be around without KeSPA. They'd just be somewhere else.
I just don't see how eSports can continue to grow in its current format. What current sport relies on sponsorship alone?
Well in the case of eSports, what would you recommend? It's not like anyone is going to pay money to go and watch people play Starcraft or something like that... Currently eSports in Korea is running on sponsorship, advertising, and some limited product sales. Yes, it's incredibly weak, but we have to keep in mind we're talking about watching people play video games. There's not enough of a culture or developed history around it to do much more than that...
On May 27 2010 11:56 Geolemon wrote:
You want everything from blizzard, but you want to give them nothing.
That's not true. We buy their games and they get free advertising when those games are played competitively. In my opinion, that's all they should be entitled to. Of course there are people will stronger views about intellectual property and whatnot, but I'm not one of them.
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this is not going to turn out well. ogn and mbc are completely destroyed, and they've done a lot.
i'm expecting sc2 clones and bw clones to start popping out of the woodwork >.>
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Personally I'm just glad something has finally happened. Watching this endless back and forth between Blizzard and Kespa was getting annoying.
We can speculate all we want, but nobody truly knows how this will turn out. We only have the beta SC2 to go by, and that's guaranteed to change dramatically between now and the second expansion. It could start off bad and get better later, or be a success from the start. Whatever happens, either Blizzard or Kespa is going to learn a very big lesson in humility. Can't wait to see what happens.
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On May 27 2010 11:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:49 bearbuddy wrote:On May 27 2010 11:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:
I love how quickly Kespa goes from the villain banning celebrations and giving players losses for typing "ppp" to some sort of fallen hero just because BIG BAD BLIZZARD is pushing them around.
Did we forget all the crazy bullshit Kespa pulled during the years? Do you really think Kespa, a marketing organization made of some of the biggest, most powerful companies in Korea (and in Samsung's case, the world), gives a shit about the "integrity of esports" any more than what affects the bottom line? No, but at least Kespa understands how the market works and has been there from the beginning. Has the Blizzard executives ever attended proleague matches? Blizzard wants to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it according to their rules. What many of us here realizes is that this rebuilding process may not work, and everything will just be left in ruins, especially with someone as inexperienced as Blizzard in charge. They were helping sponsor Gom Invitationals until Kespa nut-shotted those.... so yes, probably. Right now, can e-sports really be damaged any more than the match fixing scandal? Nothing worse could happen than that, and it seems like it will rebound. I'm not worried about Blizzard "killing" e-sports. The Gom TV invitationals were great
Kespa didn't kill the gom games, teams decided not to play because it was less prestigious, the commentators (korean ones) were shitty, the games were all one-sided 3-0s because nobody cared too much, and players needed more practice time.
And no, blizzard doesn't know shit about e-sports. And from their actions so far regarding the sc2 multiplayer, I would be very surprised if they didn't end up damaging the esports scene in some way
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United States33597 Posts
well, looks like brood war is dead
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On May 27 2010 11:46 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:39 Mykill wrote:On May 27 2010 11:28 Lightwip wrote:
I have a feeling that KeSPA will eat them alive. At least for BW. No they won't KeSPA's got shit on Blizzard. BW is Blizzard's game so they can just not allow KeSPA to broadcast it. Imagine BW without all of the players on the KeSPA rankings. What would we have then? No more than a few mediocre players from the foreign scene and maybe a few aspiring progamers. A lot of the top progamers would most likely stick with KeSPA through anything, and their fans will follow. I wouldn't call that worthless. In fact, that's very significant.
Ehm, on what planet would this be a likely scenario? You know what I think? I think that pro gamers are kind of making their living as gamers and they are not doing it for some cause. I am sure they may stick with KeSPA through some things, like how they stuck with them in the whole standoff around this deal before KeSPA blew the deal. You know what I don't think they will stand by KeSPA through though? Not having a job and not being able to play.
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Owning a pro-gaming team is advertising. They get their company name out there, and they get money from ads on the broadcasting. They probably don't make a profit, but they don't spend all that much when you think just how big companies like Samsung, CJ, SKT1, etc are. B teamers don't even get paid and A-teamers that aren't the tip-top are getting paid like, a living wage.
As long as there are viewers, and there will be, there will be companies willing to use it as advertising.
I love how we're worrying about "oh no we might have to pay" when we've all basically been stealing broadcasts from OGN/MBC (then illegally uploading them to Youtube!) for years.
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I'm kinda curious and anxious to see how this will turn out for BW :\
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On May 27 2010 12:02 iamho wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 11:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:On May 27 2010 11:49 bearbuddy wrote:On May 27 2010 11:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:
I love how quickly Kespa goes from the villain banning celebrations and giving players losses for typing "ppp" to some sort of fallen hero just because BIG BAD BLIZZARD is pushing them around.
Did we forget all the crazy bullshit Kespa pulled during the years? Do you really think Kespa, a marketing organization made of some of the biggest, most powerful companies in Korea (and in Samsung's case, the world), gives a shit about the "integrity of esports" any more than what affects the bottom line? No, but at least Kespa understands how the market works and has been there from the beginning. Has the Blizzard executives ever attended proleague matches? Blizzard wants to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it according to their rules. What many of us here realizes is that this rebuilding process may not work, and everything will just be left in ruins, especially with someone as inexperienced as Blizzard in charge. They were helping sponsor Gom Invitationals until Kespa nut-shotted those.... so yes, probably. Right now, can e-sports really be damaged any more than the match fixing scandal? Nothing worse could happen than that, and it seems like it will rebound. I'm not worried about Blizzard "killing" e-sports. The Gom TV invitationals were great Kespa didn't kill the gom games, teams decided not to play because it was less prestigious, the commentators (korean ones) were shitty, the games were all one-sided 3-0s because nobody cared too much, and players needed more practice time. And no, blizzard doesn't know shit about e-sports. And from their actions so far regarding the sc2 multiplayer, I would be very surprised if they didn't end up damaging the esports scene in some way
lol at the selective memory.
SKT1 told its players they COULDNT play. Then the next season, every Kespa team did the same.
If you don't think that was a maneuver to kill it, you need to stop drinking the kespa koolaid
BTW, SC2 as a game is great. Its just Bnet 2 that blows. So "actions regarding SC2" sorta falls on deaf ears/
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Let's however keep this in mind, the alternatives were not KeSPA or Gom. Obviously if that was the two choices then you would stick with KeSPA.
But Blizzard did give KeSPA an offer, they graciously declined. The alternative was between Gom and NOTHING or some other even more inexperienced actor. For whatever difference it makes now, KeSPA chose this, not Blizzard. The deal was not unreasonable, it was only unreasonable in a world where KeSPA imagined that they had the monopoly and were the only possible candidate. Which is probably what they were betting on when they tried to play it the stubborn way.
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EPT
