EPTIt would be so much better if we even at least knew the percentile range for each league instead of being left to guess what a #XY rank in league Z means for your overall standing
An Open Letter to Blizzard Regarding Divisions - Page 14
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Stargazer
United States10 Posts
It would be so much better if we even at least knew the percentile range for each league instead of being left to guess what a #XY rank in league Z means for your overall standing | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
"you are the most handsome, smartest boy in the world  you are great "It's ok mom, you can let me know how bad i am at SC2. I'm not as stupid as those kids in the playground (xbox live). The hundreds of thousands of players that took part in Iccup/wgtour at their primes should be evidence that yes in fact players CAN handle the knowledge that they aren't as good as others. Would i rather be shown that im not good, or have information hidden to protect me from quitting cause im so mad....Some rethinking really needs to happen with this one. | ||
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Bro
Canada16 Posts
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KCrazy
United States278 Posts
I find it much more motivating when I have a tangible target in mind.. right now I have no sense of where I stand. | ||
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Phayze
Canada2029 Posts
blizzard simply does not understand what the majority of the starcraft community wants. They didnt have a problem moving up the iCCup ladder as a low C- player, They knew that every game they were learning. Now, however, you're giving everyone a sense of entitlement, nerd rage will ensue as all players will think that they are awesome. Please blizzard, implement a global ranking. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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shieldbreak
United States406 Posts
Couldn't agree with you more. | ||
TrueRedemption
United States313 Posts
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MeruFM
United States167 Posts
The Pro ranking match replays will also be public use? I think if that tier is a single conglomerate, then I'll be fine with it. I'm more worried about how they're going to consolidate the different regions and reduce the lag. | ||
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PREWTAHS
Armenia24 Posts
Some food for thought: Lets look at the many tasks Blizzard has in front of them and what their main objectives are. One of the most prominent of these is to bring in as many players as possible. The way Blizzard has gone about accomplishing this goal is (from what I can currently assess) quite fantastic, and believe it or not, good for the competitive scene. Having less cut-throat, black and white statistics and ranking system allow for newer players to slowly integrate themselves into the competitive scene. This means more players, and more competition. Drawing from WC3 as an example, many new players became quickly discouraged when they couldn't keep a 50% winning rate. As a result, many of these players soon abandoned the competitive heart of Blizzard's RTSes (1v1) and permanently migrated to the realm of UMS and 4v4. Having a fan-made fringe site which aggregates the global rankings instead of official integration into BNet allows the best of both worlds: the pros get what they want, and new players will stick around because they'll be having more fun. I want as many people as possible to enjoy Starcraft, and in the long run, a more transparent ranking system would (in my opinion, and depending on method) hinder the community more than help it. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard did integrate this though, as nearly all of TL wants it (and understandably so). In a selfish way, I'd prefer to have global rankings. But I also am heavily concerned with SC2's accessibility. I don't want all the newer players solely playing UMS because they see they're rank 10,000. I want them to have a chance to experience the true essence of Starcraft and continue to have enough incentive to stick around. I think it's important to have this discussion, and express the community's yearn for this feature, but I would hope if Blizzard decides to listen, they integrate it in a fashion that doesn't hinder SC2's already abysmal accessibility to new comers. P.S. I love your site and use it all the time! | ||
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mcneebs
Canada391 Posts
Often times you'd get little messages saying "You killed more players than your previous best!" The messages ridiculous after a while though with things like "You almost dominated more players as an engineer than your previous best!" It's been said a thousand times over, but this is not what starcraft needs. We want a global ladder, we want cold hard facts. That's what SC players like. Raw data. This is coming from a silver league player. I don't mind the ELO system, but again, who cares if I'm ranked 7th in Silver division #34. I can then lose a few games, and get PROMOTED to rank 25 in Gold league division 14. I have no idea if it's just the kinks in the system, or if I'm getting better or worse. It's quite foolish. | ||
HaN-
France1921 Posts
But come on Blizzard, on this one follow us... | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
+1 bump w/e it takes. I agree with this a million times over. I don't care if I'm only ranked 31846 or 63937 in the world. It's still nice to know. Hide it or make it not so obvious if you need to, but at least make it accessible. Or maybe not a truly "universal" rankings that puts diamond players in the same rankings as copper players. Make separate global rankings for them if you wish, but I WANT MY RANK DAMMIT. PS: That figgernaggot guy from the bnet forums is hilarious. | ||
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oo_xerox
United States852 Posts
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
On May 23 2010 12:43 PREWTAHS wrote: (edited for tone and clarification) Some food for thought: Lets look at the many tasks Blizzard has in front of them and what their main objectives are. One of the most prominent of these is to bring in as many players as possible. The way Blizzard has gone about accomplishing this goal is (from what I can currently assess) quite fantastic, and believe it or not, good for the competitive scene. Having less cut-throat, black and white statistics and ranking system allow for newer players to slowly integrate themselves into the competitive scene. This means more players, and more competition. Drawing from WC3 as an example, many new players became quickly discouraged when they couldn't keep a 50% winning rate. As a result, many of these players soon abandoned the competitive heart of Blizzard's RTSes (1v1) and permanently migrated to the realm of UMS and 4v4. Having a fan-made fringe site which aggregates the global rankings instead of official integration into BNet allows the best of both worlds: the pros get what they want, and new players will stick around because they'll be having more fun. I want as many people as possible to enjoy Starcraft, and in the long run, a more transparent ranking system would (in my opinion, and depending on method) hinder the community more than help it. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard did integrate this though, as nearly all of TL wants it (and understandably so). In a selfish way, I'd prefer to have global rankings. But I also am heavily concerned with SC2's accessibility. I don't want all the newer players solely playing UMS because they see they're rank 10,000. I want them to have a chance to experience the true essence of Starcraft and continue to have enough incentive to stick around. I think it's important to have this discussion, and express the community's yearn for this feature, but I would hope if Blizzard decides to listen, they integrate it in a fashion that doesn't hinder SC2's already abysmal accessibility to new comers. P.S. I love your site and use it all the time! This is a great point on integrating new players, which is why i suggest, instead of us having to create this content, blizzard could do something to help it out, like create a global ladder separate from the regular b net ladder. Because the issue as it stands is, who knows what division is good and what divisions not, there are far to many random players who simply dont get to play eachother because the isolation that blizzard is creating, and simply dont have the information about who else is good besides the more famous players. Also I want to point out to this "business" standpoint is this, 10 years of starcraft was not done by casual gamers. A ladder with 3000 players at any given time playing hundreds of thousands of games, was not done by the casual gamers. An e-sport that has taken over crashed every livestream type website by sheer numbers of people watching players "explain" or stream live games, was not created by casual gamers. And millions of dollars in tournament prizes, advertisement space, and television networks was not created by casual gamers. So the idea that it is the smartest thing from a business perspective to cater to casual gamers always sounds so ludicrous to me, because the money is in completion. Not to mention I dont think any casual gamer is going to go, oh shucks im not on the top of my ladder I hate this game, because if they did, theyd probably try to get to the top of their ladder, in which case theyd literally seise to exist as "casual gamers." So plz blizzard your sparing no one. | ||
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
On May 23 2010 14:49 gk_ender wrote: This is a great point on integrating new players, which is why i suggest, instead of us having to create this content, blizzard could do something to help it out, like create a global ladder separate from the regular b net ladder. Because the issue as it stands is, who knows what division is good and what divisions not, there are far to many random players who simply dont get to play eachother because the isolation that blizzard is creating, and simply dont have the information about who else is good besides the more famous players. Also I want to point out to this "business" standpoint is this, 10 years of starcraft was not done by casual gamers. A ladder with 3000 players at any given time playing hundreds of thousands of games, was not done by the casual gamers. An e-sport that has taken over crashed every livestream type website by sheer numbers of people watching players "explain" or stream live games, was not created by casual gamers. And millions of dollars in tournament prizes, advertisement space, and television networks was not created by casual gamers. So the idea that it is the smartest thing from a business perspective to cater to casual gamers always sounds so ludicrous to me, because the money is in completion. Not to mention I dont think any casual gamer is going to go, oh shucks im not on the top of my ladder I hate this game, because if they did, theyd probably try to get to the top of their ladder, in which case theyd literally seise to exist as "casual gamers." So plz blizzard your sparing no one. I dont want to sound like the standard omg I'm a competitive gamer wtf are you doing, but instead I want to suggest that casual gamers are underestimated. In the year 2010, I do not beleive that anyone looks at a large scale competitive ladder as alien, and matter of fact, you get a lot of players thinking its cool and wanting to play on it. To essentially tear down (exaggeration) and hinder competitive play, in hopes well simply do it ourselves, and create websites like the one in the letter, makes the community jaded, and we begin to stop believing in blizzard having our best interest, and the need for associations like kespa. That is all thank you | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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ForTheSwarm
United States556 Posts
Thanks for putting this argument in concise, but mature terms. | ||
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LiquidDeth
United States18 Posts
My understanding is that rankings aren't only based on a win/loss ratio. It is also heavily based on your relative score. This score only has meaning within the context of the league system. Let's say I'm at the top of my division in the silver league and I lose to a gold ranked player - but our scores are very close. The system will bump me up to gold. I am now competing with people of similar skills. What does this process reveal about Blizzard's motives? They are more concerned with creating a matchmaking system that will supply a player a mix of even matches and challenging matches. These challenging matches are all within reach though. What you are proposing completely undermines what I assume Blizzard has spent at least a year, if not more, and thousands upon thousands of dollars developing - its matchmaking system. who knows what division is good and what divisions not I believe this statement reveals you are missing the point of Blizzard's system. It doesn't matter what division is good and what division is bad. It is random. For 95% of players on Battle.net, the league system and division system supplies tangible goals and ideas of where they stand. 95% of players on the ladder will always be able to move up in the rankings. The only players who need to know if their division is good or not are those standing at the tip of the iceberg in the diamond league. And from my understanding Blizzard will be supplying them with an invite only Pro League. And before we all freak out and demand that Blizzard rip apart what they have spent years developing consider Pro League. This will most likely supply you with a global ladder. So what does this mean for the 95% of us not in the pro league? It gives us the ability to slowly climb the ladder. And, sorry for the cliche metaphor, but sometimes it's easier to climb something when you can't see how far you have to climb. Sometimes its best to focus on one step at a time as opposed to the 2000 steps leading to the top of the empire state building. It's so everyone can be competitive and everyone can have the chance to make it to the top. And for those at the top, they will be able to see where they stand. | ||
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