• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:20
CEST 12:20
KST 19:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage1Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage Gypsy to Korea Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10144 users

OP! OP! OP! - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
shieldbreak
Profile Joined February 2010
United States406 Posts
April 24 2010 20:26 GMT
#41
good point. i've seen few streamers experimenting with units except delita. If they all experimented with units, something magical might occur (like the awesome infestor micro). =D
Many a sleepless nights were spent doing absolutely nothing.
LordLastDay
Profile Joined February 2008
34 Posts
April 24 2010 21:18 GMT
#42
Well a Reaper costs less than a scan (consider mules) or any flying Terran unit, so I'm guessing they make pretty decent suicide scouts, depending on the map layout.

Also on one map a Reaper can activate a Xel'Naga watchtower on the low ground and keep it activated while standing on the high ground next to it.

It's also funny to see a offensive bunker with Reapers, they throw their explosives right out of the bunker at buildings.
Gr33ned
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada22 Posts
April 24 2010 21:21 GMT
#43
Awesome post, a pleasure to read
Agree 100%
ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
April 24 2010 21:26 GMT
#44
On April 25 2010 05:26 shieldbreak wrote:
good point. i've seen few streamers experimenting with units except delita. If they all experimented with units, something magical might occur (like the awesome infestor micro). =D


Just because it isn't being stream doesn't mean it isn't happening. Like Protoss victories, for example. If you watched -orb-'s stream, you'd think that Protoss were the worst race in the game, when really it's just orb, and Protoss has the highest win rate by a significant margin.
Bring back 2v2s!
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
April 24 2010 21:42 GMT
#45
On April 25 2010 06:26 ComradeDover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 05:26 shieldbreak wrote:
good point. i've seen few streamers experimenting with units except delita. If they all experimented with units, something magical might occur (like the awesome infestor micro). =D


Just because it isn't being stream doesn't mean it isn't happening. Like Protoss victories, for example. If you watched -orb-'s stream, you'd think that Protoss were the worst race in the game, when really it's just orb, and Protoss has the highest win rate by a significant margin.


While I won't disagree with you on orbs nerdrage being pretty riddic, I would some numbers to support this claim...
ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 04:19:27
April 25 2010 04:18 GMT
#46
On April 25 2010 06:42 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 06:26 ComradeDover wrote:
On April 25 2010 05:26 shieldbreak wrote:
good point. i've seen few streamers experimenting with units except delita. If they all experimented with units, something magical might occur (like the awesome infestor micro). =D


Just because it isn't being stream doesn't mean it isn't happening. Like Protoss victories, for example. If you watched -orb-'s stream, you'd think that Protoss were the worst race in the game, when really it's just orb, and Protoss has the highest win rate by a significant margin.


While I won't disagree with you on orbs nerdrage being pretty riddic, I would some numbers to support this claim...


Some DB interview where he said that most matchups are within 1% winrate of each other, except PvT is 55-45 in favor of the Protoss.
Bring back 2v2s!
roemy
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany432 Posts
April 25 2010 06:07 GMT
#47
sry, i've just had it with this "hard counter" hoax. who came up with it anyways?

there's basically only "armored", "anything but armored" or "air unit" that really matters, and mostly these units counter each other and almost always counter themselves.

all TLO does is find some obvious power the self declared elitists have dismissed with their standard builds. to whom was his recent infestor game really a surprise?
the latter is also the reason why there's such a discrepancy between the servers. zergs rule on asia, huh?

too bad goat queues one game after another - he'd really have the potential to come up with something new if he'd focus on finding it. but alas he's just making stuff up as he goes... i wish i had his feeling for timings... 8[
rock is fine.. paper could need a buff, but scissors have to be nerfed
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
April 25 2010 08:40 GMT
#48
This is amazing.
Pure and simple.

Also, lol at Frozz. Trozz wannabe?
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
imbecile
Profile Joined October 2009
563 Posts
April 25 2010 17:05 GMT
#49
I think he is seeing the past too rosy. Considering all the barely used units in Brood War, from Queen to Scout. or all the units that almost exclusively got used in one match up (medics). Or the many many strategies that used only one quick batch of specific unit (most wraith builds).

Strategies will evolve.
cgerrr
Profile Joined April 2010
Ukraine47 Posts
April 26 2010 11:10 GMT
#50
Brood War doesn’t emphasize on hard counters as StarCraft 2 does or so I wanted to say at first. But after a second thought SC1 has similar flaws as WoL has actually – it can be summarized by one simple definition:

Partial or complete Unit/Strategy denial.

As mentioned above both games have it:
Look at the Tanks/Reavers/PsiStorm against Medic/Marin in BW and compare it to Immortals versus any armored Terran’s “mech” unit in SC2; or Irradiate/Corsair versus Mutas in SC1 compared to Colossi vs Marines in SC2: apparently in both games one certain Unit/Strategy completely (or partially) denies the other one, which is what hard counters is all about.

Is it a bad thing for the game? Looking at 11 years of BW’s success it can be said with confidence that advantages of the implemented balance model outweigh its flaws.

But the main question is:
Does SC2 balance model have enough potential to represent enough game quality from the players’ and observers’ perspective as SC1 has?
As it is now my opinion on the matter is somewhat negative: SC2 in most cases is boring to watch (rarely I see something as inspiring as SC1 can ‘produce’) and doesn’t have the same ‘make believe’ feel when playing it as SC1 has.
GoDannY
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany442 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-26 11:34:13
April 26 2010 11:33 GMT
#51
On April 24 2010 09:25 Energizer wrote:

Carriers : Making facepalms since 1998.



made my day :D
Team LifeStyle - it's more than a game
preaCor
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany80 Posts
April 26 2010 11:41 GMT
#52
great post - I agree people should try out as many new things as possible. However, I think the fact that you can't easily play an unranked game (must use custom game) stops many people from doing so.
Pity is free, envy must be earned.
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
April 26 2010 15:39 GMT
#53
Great post except for the whole problem that this exact same thing has been posted/articled/front paged just about constantly since beta released.

Seriously it was a good read, unfortunately I have already read the same thing a few..dozen..times.
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
Grim(Reaper)
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada58 Posts
April 26 2010 15:42 GMT
#54
great read. i agree with the whol bneling ithng
you call down the thunder?
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #126
TKL 51
CranKy Ducklings43
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech120
SortOf 107
IndyStarCraft 53
Codebar 52
TKL 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4309
Calm 2561
Horang2 1878
Jaedong 1057
Bisu 1016
Aegong 564
Hyuk 469
Mini 225
Larva 210
actioN 195
[ Show more ]
Stork 164
EffOrt 144
Killer 83
sorry 73
ZerO 65
Rush 59
Soulkey 54
HiyA 51
sSak 51
Backho 36
Shinee 34
Sharp 33
soO 29
Hm[arnc] 28
zelot 23
Free 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Light 15
Noble 14
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
XaKoH 418
XcaliburYe302
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2617
shoxiejesuss706
zeus369
edward51
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi786
ceh9544
Happy151
Pyrionflax90
crisheroes85
Mew2King69
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL9401
Other Games
gamesdonequick822
BasetradeTV421
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 34
• StrangeGG 24
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt1026
• HappyZerGling81
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
13h 40m
Replay Cast
22h 40m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
The PondCast
1d 23h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
uThermal 2v2 Last Chance Qualifiers 2026
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.