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OP! OP! OP! - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 2 3 Next All
ExecutioN
Profile Joined March 2010
Latvia52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-24 08:12:37
April 24 2010 08:12 GMT
#21
The game is still in beta.. they will tweek it if they find the need..
If I lack belief in God, why would he belive in me?
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
April 24 2010 10:30 GMT
#22
So they nurffed the queen movement off creep which puts a hamper on my proxy tumor attempts. Doesn't mean I won't stop trying! Never say OP and always keep testing till the end.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
Slugbreath
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden201 Posts
April 24 2010 12:07 GMT
#23
Nicely written article. I enjoyed the read.
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
April 24 2010 18:35 GMT
#24
For those of you who already mentioned - I am terribly sorry for causing such confusion with the terms "niche" and "role". It comes from my lack of proper writing skills so to help clear the message, ill define what I mean more clearly as per below and add this into the OP. Again, terribly sorry for that.

When I refer to role, I purposely mean that a selective unit (whether it be a reaper, immortal, etc..) has been implemented for one specific purpose in the game without much leeway into additional uses. As like I said, reaper was designed for the harassment role, but it cannot be easily seen as a main army composition due to its lack of HP and attack power. Same can be said for many other units like Immortal which was solely introduced as a counter unit to everything armored.

As for the term niche, I refer that to any unit that was made as being part of a 'grouping' that wasn't necessary made to counter any specific unit and can easily change roles. Such as the lurker, it can be a very strong defensive unit securing expos, or it can be a very powerful anti-infantry tool on aggression. Or to become more modernized, the sentry which can be a strong defensive, or extremely ideal for aggression as Protoss while not having any major bonus damage being attributed to the unit to make it good.

Yes, I know both words have the same dictionary value, but I was troubled in finding another type of term to replace the existing ones, something I'm very sorry for!
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
InfernoX
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden55 Posts
April 24 2010 18:39 GMT
#25
Very nice post.
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
April 24 2010 18:40 GMT
#26
On April 24 2010 16:23 Frozz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2010 16:14 DanceCommander wrote:
what a great post. really makes ya think haha, mothership rushing ;D

Mothership rushing is great
Just make sure your becaon's not late
Their black hole's amazing
To do some sweet razing
Zerg bases - I'm sure you'll relate.

Hahaha... Limericks are so awesome. Every time you read them it's like a song. A truly great beat for a poem structure.

And to the OP, I couldn't agree more. SC2 just doesn't give you quite as much freedom with how you want to use a unit.
LimeNade
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2125 Posts
April 24 2010 18:43 GMT
#27
umm the dude who got raped by banelings couldve just microed O_o that helps and attacked the banelings rather then let them get in close and blow him up, just a thought
JD, need I say more? :D
Puremiss
Profile Joined August 2008
United States232 Posts
April 24 2010 18:46 GMT
#28
good read! when i 1st read the title i thought this was some post about people's threads or something
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
April 24 2010 19:42 GMT
#29
haha cool post ^_^
snpnx
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany454 Posts
April 24 2010 19:46 GMT
#30
Well, the Hard Counter System isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it has the ability to shift focus a bit more on strategy (i.e. which unit when) than on micro.
Not to say I don't wanna see good micro, but good strategy is just as important, and I do think SC2 has a lot of potential for micro which has to be seen by players yet.
"Language is Freeware, in that it's free to use, but it's not Open Source, so you can't just change things how you like."
btlyger
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States470 Posts
April 24 2010 19:48 GMT
#31
Although there have already been a lot of posts about things being OP in starcraft 1 and how we should avoid it, I belive this is a great thread.

Don't try to complain to get something nerfed, figure out a way to counter it with use of micro and abilities.
"Minerals being mined. Minerals being mined. Minerals being mined." Learn how to post: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
April 24 2010 19:52 GMT
#32
you do know the game is in beta right?
it takes time to get shit fixed to where its balanced like sc:bw
its not gonna do it over night
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
briann
Profile Joined December 2009
United States121 Posts
April 24 2010 19:52 GMT
#33
i think that this really sums things up. Also the hard counter system is a large change but once you get used to it its not too bad
ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-24 20:15:34
April 24 2010 20:14 GMT
#34
On April 25 2010 03:35 Energizer wrote:
When I refer to role, I purposely mean that a selective unit (whether it be a reaper, immortal, etc..) has been implemented for one specific purpose in the game without much leeway into additional uses. As like I said, reaper was designed for the harassment role, but it cannot be easily seen as a main army composition due to its lack of HP and attack power.


I incorperate reapers into my main army all the time. They're fantastic! They deal a ton of damage to buildings and when in the middle of a blob they're really hard to pick out and snipe. Here's an example;

I open two-rax-techlab reaper and do some harass. Great! The reaper has fulfilled the purpose it was designed to do. After my harass, I add two more rax with reactors, a factory with a tech lab, and a starport with a reactor and start pumping marines tanks/thors and medivacs. With my original two techlab barracks I make a handful of marauders and maybe a ghost or two, but I also try to get in 4-6 reapers. Once I attack (Say, from the back-door on Incineration), my opponent sees what's happening and transfers his drones away from his main into his natural. My six reapers can now separate from the army and pick off drones easily now that they're (temporarily) out of the protection of spine crawlers at the mineral lines. Once they've picked off all they can, the reapers can rejoin the main army and be very effective building-razers, certainly much more effective than my mostly-marine army. And if he tries to counterattack with anything but roaches or marauders, the reapers do amazing DPS while comfortably in the protection of my ball of units. Also, any time I raze a building (Which should be often if this attack is to be successful), my reapers help clean up the broodling residue

Creative use extending the lifespan of the reaper beyond the first five minutes, ezpz.

On April 25 2010 04:52 briann wrote:
i think that this really sums things up. Also the hard counter system is a large change but once you get used to it its not too bad


Something tells me you don't know what you mean when you say "hard counter system". What's the difference between vultures doing 20 damage/half to large in Brood War and a port of them here doing 10 damage + 10 light?
Bring back 2v2s!
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
April 24 2010 20:17 GMT
#35
I think I see more threads telling people not to call something OP than I see threads actually calling something OP.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
April 24 2010 20:19 GMT
#36
Rather, they sought to take the initiative by building a unit around the specific role they wanted it to fill, instead of just developing a unit to each race that filled a niche then leaving it to the players to develop its aspect.


False. First, Blizzard's stated SC2 design philosophy was to come up with cool unit ideas and then try to balance them.

Second, most BW units were designed with a specific role in mind. Corsairs to solve the Mutalisk problem which had been the bane of all Protoss. Devourers and Valkyries to deal with mass air (this was before Scout and Wraith ground attacks were nerfed and when island maps were popular). Medics to rectify Terran's inherit inability to repair bio which made them terribly inefficient.
TL Android App Open Source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265090
oxxo
Profile Joined February 2010
988 Posts
April 24 2010 20:20 GMT
#37
SC1 almost the EXACT same 'hard counter' system that everyone complains about.
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-24 20:21:42
April 24 2010 20:21 GMT
#38
On April 25 2010 05:14 ComradeDover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 03:35 Energizer wrote:
When I refer to role, I purposely mean that a selective unit (whether it be a reaper, immortal, etc..) has been implemented for one specific purpose in the game without much leeway into additional uses. As like I said, reaper was designed for the harassment role, but it cannot be easily seen as a main army composition due to its lack of HP and attack power.


I incorperate reapers into my main army all the time. They're fantastic! They deal a ton of damage to buildings and when in the middle of a blob they're really hard to pick out and snipe. Here's an example;

I open two-rax-techlab reaper and do some harass. Great! The reaper has fulfilled the purpose it was designed to do. After my harass, I add two more rax with reactors, a factory with a tech lab, and a starport with a reactor and start pumping marines tanks/thors and medivacs. With my original two techlab barracks I make a handful of marauders and maybe a ghost or two, but I also try to get in 4-6 reapers. Once I attack (Say, from the back-door on Incineration), my opponent sees what's happening and transfers his drones away from his main into his natural. My six reapers can now separate from the army and pick off drones easily now that they're (temporarily) out of the protection of spine crawlers at the mineral lines. Once they've picked off all they can, the reapers can rejoin the main army and be very effective building-razers, certainly much more effective than my mostly-marine army. And if he tries to counterattack with anything but roaches or marauders, the reapers do amazing DPS while comfortably in the protection of my ball of units. Also, any time I raze a building (Which should be often if this attack is to be successful), my reapers help clean up the broodling residue

Creative use extending the lifespan of the reaper beyond the first five minutes, ezpz.

Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 04:52 briann wrote:
i think that this really sums things up. Also the hard counter system is a large change but once you get used to it its not too bad


Something tells me you don't know what you mean when you say "hard counter system". What's the difference between vultures doing 20 damage/half to large in Brood War and a port of them here doing 10 damage + 10 light?



Vultures did 25% to large units, and the difference between the damage systems in BW and SC2 is that damage is scaled down in BW and up in SC2.
ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
April 24 2010 20:22 GMT
#39
On April 25 2010 05:17 Archerofaiur wrote:
I think I see more threads telling people not to call something OP than I see threads actually calling something OP.


The patch 9 notes has about twenty threads worth of bitching condensed.

Truth be told, you can probably attribute your experience due to the responsive moderation in this forum. Threads calling things overpowered quickly end up Closed.
Bring back 2v2s!
ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
April 24 2010 20:25 GMT
#40
On April 25 2010 05:21 TieN.nS) wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 05:14 ComradeDover wrote:
On April 25 2010 03:35 Energizer wrote:
When I refer to role, I purposely mean that a selective unit (whether it be a reaper, immortal, etc..) has been implemented for one specific purpose in the game without much leeway into additional uses. As like I said, reaper was designed for the harassment role, but it cannot be easily seen as a main army composition due to its lack of HP and attack power.


I incorperate reapers into my main army all the time. They're fantastic! They deal a ton of damage to buildings and when in the middle of a blob they're really hard to pick out and snipe. Here's an example;

I open two-rax-techlab reaper and do some harass. Great! The reaper has fulfilled the purpose it was designed to do. After my harass, I add two more rax with reactors, a factory with a tech lab, and a starport with a reactor and start pumping marines tanks/thors and medivacs. With my original two techlab barracks I make a handful of marauders and maybe a ghost or two, but I also try to get in 4-6 reapers. Once I attack (Say, from the back-door on Incineration), my opponent sees what's happening and transfers his drones away from his main into his natural. My six reapers can now separate from the army and pick off drones easily now that they're (temporarily) out of the protection of spine crawlers at the mineral lines. Once they've picked off all they can, the reapers can rejoin the main army and be very effective building-razers, certainly much more effective than my mostly-marine army. And if he tries to counterattack with anything but roaches or marauders, the reapers do amazing DPS while comfortably in the protection of my ball of units. Also, any time I raze a building (Which should be often if this attack is to be successful), my reapers help clean up the broodling residue

Creative use extending the lifespan of the reaper beyond the first five minutes, ezpz.

On April 25 2010 04:52 briann wrote:
i think that this really sums things up. Also the hard counter system is a large change but once you get used to it its not too bad


Something tells me you don't know what you mean when you say "hard counter system". What's the difference between vultures doing 20 damage/half to large in Brood War and a port of them here doing 10 damage + 10 light?



Vultures did 25% to large units, and the difference between the damage systems in BW and SC2 is that damage is scaled down in BW and up in SC2.


But the end result is the same. Unless you have a problem with plus signs, I don't see the issue. 10+10small or 20/half to small gives you the exact same result. They're different ways of writing the same thing.

The only real difference is that it's now very clear which unit deals how much damage to what. In Brood War the only way to figure out vultures aren't good against large targets is to build a bunch and try attacking ultralisks with them, and that's not good for anybody.
Bring back 2v2s!
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