EPTShould Infestors have Darkswarm Ability? - Page 2
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Bob123
Korea (North)259 Posts
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
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Tef
Sweden443 Posts
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
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Toun
Sweden59 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:03 Genesis128 wrote: I'm agreeing with this one. But I also very much agree that the infestor needs some redesign. I would most likely see some new more usefull spells in the infestor arsenal, but sadly I don't really know what to suggest (though I do believe that the forum is probably full of them). But if this is the case, then it should be a new ability, not an old sc1-ability. I was quite sad to see the protoss mothership just turned into a huge slow arbiter, since it's not really bringing any new abilities into the game anymore. As a bare minimum to fix the infestor as it is today I suggest buffing the infested marines. As opposed to most people I quite enjoy this spell (I have a personal love for summoned units). I think it can be useful in pitched battles as you could summon in more cannon-fodder as well as in some sneaky tactics. One of my favourites is burrowing 5-6 infestors, and sneaking them into an undefended enemy expansion. Then popping up and spamming infested marines. At the cost of 25 energy, you get up to 8 marines per infestor, which can be quite the sizable army. But this really isn't effective in high level play (but I highly encourage people to try it out in FFA's), since the marines do too little damage and have a redicilous short lifespan, to make it worthwhile. As you say it doesn't work that well in a game where people actually know that detectors are something mandatory. Besides that it's alot more cost-effective to just use 6-8 Roaches to get the same work done. Im not sure if I want Dark Swarm back but I really want some more range for FG and NP or durability for the Infestor in form of spells while burrowed or a smaller model+more HP or armor. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:04 Bob123 wrote: No. It would require major zerg nerfs across the board. Also, I'd like to see the game less spell dependent overall; less storm, less emp, less fungal growth. Indeed it would require an overall nerf to Zerg. I actually think it would be a positive change though, bringing more uniqueness to the race. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:19 valaki wrote: Actually this would benefit terran more than zerg, because hellions roflrape lings and then everything else in darkswarm. that could give ultras a bigger more defined role tho... yay theorycrafting! n_n | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12024 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:21 R0YAL wrote: that could give ultras a bigger more defined role tho... yay theorycrafting! n_n Ultras are so powerful, if you give them a swarm to sit in to take no damage, it would be heavily, heavily imbalanced. | ||
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dynamite
Germany33 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:03 Genesis128 wrote: But I also very much agree that the infestor needs some redesign. Why? A cloaked caster (move while burrow is the Zerg equivalent of cloaking) who can stop enemy troops from rearranging and forming a good concave isnt good enough? Everyone whines about the Marauder and his slow effect, but you get a much stronger and longer lasting effect and dont like it? More useful than that is hardly possible ... apart from any "Infestor spends 200 energy and Zerg wins the game"-spell. IMO the biggest "problem" with Infestors is that most Zerg pretty much "forget" to research burrow nowadays. During the first two weeks (?) of the beta everyone got burrow to heal up Roaches and attempt microing. Nowadays you simply build more of them, because they are dead cheap. So the poor Infestors dont have burrow to defend themselves and consequently suck. Also I dont think sticking Infestors in the back of your army and casting the Zerg version of "psi-storm" is the best way to use them. - drop them on a mineral line and harrass workers ... Fungal Growth plus an infested Terran - cast Fungal Growth on a group of Marines rushing up / down the ramp to have the Zerg version of Forcefield | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:26 Qikz wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 19 2010 20:21 R0YAL wrote: that could give ultras a bigger more defined role tho... yay theorycrafting! n_n Ultras are so powerful, if you give them a swarm to sit in to take no damage, it would be heavily, heavily imbalanced. ultras are super underused because BL are a much better choice | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
I saw this suggestion of yours and I thought that you are entitled to ask for such an ability as the zerg lack flavor (imo). However I was thinking about a variation of this ability which would be both new in Starcraft and complement the zerg in a good way, without straying to far from the original dark swam ability. Here it is: Creep Fog: Description: Creates an area of creep spores at around a target point reducing enemy visibility and augmenting the movement speed of zerg units in the area. Effects: Reduces all ranged and spell damage to units inside the fog by 50% and increases the movement speed of zerg units inside the area by 30%(edit: does not stack with creep movement speed bonus). Area of Effect: 5x5 Duration: 20 seconds Of course all the numbers can be tweaked. The idea behind it is to act like a weaker version of the darkswarm in terms of damage reduction, but at the same time to counter psionic storms and siege fire attacks. Furthermore, zerg will gain the same movement speed bonus, like they would have on creep. What do you think? | ||
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:38 okrane wrote: Hello everyone, first time poster here. I saw this suggestion of yours and I thought that you are entitled to ask for such an ability as the zerg lack flavor (imo). However I was thinking about a variation of this ability which would be both new in Starcraft and complement the zerg in a good way, without straying to far from the original dark swam ability. Here it is: Creep Fog: Description: Creates an area of creep spores at around a target point reducing enemy visibility and augmenting the movement speed of zerg units in the area. Effects: Reduces all ranged and spell damage to units inside the fog by 50% and increases the movement speed of zerg units inside the area by 30%. Area of Effect: 5x5 Duration: 20 seconds Of course all the numbers can be tweaked. The idea behind it is to act like a weaker version of the darkswarm in terms of damage reduction, but at the same time to counter psionic storms and siege fire attacks. Furthermore, zerg will gain the same movement speed bonus, like they would have on creep. What do you think? decent idea except the part where it reduces spell damage... nothing should reduce spell dmg and not too sure about the movement speed because creep already increases speed greatly. Dont think it would fit very well but u get an A for the effort  | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:55 R0YAL wrote: decent idea except the part where it reduces spell damage... nothing should reduce spell dmg and not too sure about the movement speed because creep already increases speed greatly. Dont think it would fit very well but u get an A for the effort About the movement speed: of course it should not stack with creep movement speed bonus (I'll clarify in my post). This ability is meant as an extra window of oportunity for the zerg to get in position(in melee range of tanks, faster surrounds, close in quicker on those sentries) - basically emphasizing mobility, that which the zerg are best at. So consider it as a spell which brings the creep where it is needed for the movement speed bonus coupled with a weaker version of the dark swarm. I figured I'd throw in some spell damage reduction in there to counter storms, but its not really the core of this ability. | ||
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Crissaegrim
2947 Posts
Think about it, point defense drone is like a darkswarm in that it negates ranged attacks. Not all, but enough that most units fall to it. However, the real imbalance is that terran itself is comprised of ranged units unlike the old zergs of sc1 whereby the hydralisk was the main ranged unit which is not commonly used in conjunction with darkswarm. Watching inka vs qxc just showed how imba the point defense drone is. Having a PDD on field negates stalkers and phoenixes. Then tell me just how is protoss supposed to deal with a mass of banshees or vikings? | ||
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wbz0rn
Germany29 Posts
On April 19 2010 19:37 k!llua wrote: SC2 needs more new abilities, not new units with old abilities. couldnt agree more. besides i dont really feel like there is much "new" stuff for zerg units anyway.. at least not if youre comparing it to the other races.. does zerg have a single thing that hasnt been seen in BW somewhere? and yes, i am ignoring queen/creep/vomit/tumors  | ||
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TrzystaDrzew
Poland72 Posts
On April 19 2010 21:29 Crissaegrim wrote: Whats funny is that they sorta gave this ability to the raven. Think about it, point defense drone is like a darkswarm in that it negates ranged attacks. Not all, but enough that most units fall to it. However, the real imbalance is that terran itself is comprised of ranged units unlike the old zergs of sc1 whereby the hydralisk was the main ranged unit which is not commonly used in conjunction with darkswarm. Watching inka vs qxc just showed how imba the point defense drone is. Having a PDD on field negates stalkers and phoenixes. Then tell me just how is protoss supposed to deal with a mass of banshees or vikings? I presume your imba as imbalance but you can't balance loss of creativity. I have seen Feedback working pretty well vs my units with energy and Terran get a lot of them for an example. However back to the topic: No for swarm returning. This is a new game and I would like to see more new possibilities rather than easy copy paste Brood War schematics. What is more I think current Infestor spells aren't so awful to be completely redesigned. | ||
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RiGun
Argentina155 Posts
I really liked Okrane's idea, but if we want a totally new spell I would go for something like this: Creep trap, you may only cast it on creep, all units moving into the creep trap area of spell get entangled on creep forming a cocoon, units can't attack or receive damage for the duration of the spell, duration 7 seconds, AoS 3x3. This spell main focus is defense against P&T but could be used combined with the new creep mechanics to make an ambush. A variant of this could be that you can cast it anywhere but it only affects biological units. | ||
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