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Should Infestors have Darkswarm Ability?
From recent polls from the TL community we can all say zerg was not the best designed race in starcraft2. Zerg has a unit that has the most potential which is the infestor. Right now Fungal Growth is the only commonly used spell from this unit since the other spells, such as Infested Terrans and Neural Parasite, aren’t that viable or worth the energy when it comes down to the actual battle. You would need perfect positioning for neural parasite, but focus firing kills this unit amazingly fast since the HP nerf a few patches back. If you were able to cast the spell underground like back in battle report 3 then I think that spell would be extremely powerful for zerg. With that said, Infested Terrans is another spell that I haven’t felt the need of using because of the energy cost is not worth it.
Recently in interviews Dustin Browder said they wanted to rework infestors to be used more in the core gameplay for zerg. I thought of different ways to make them useful such as making them cheaper, but I think Infestors need another spell such as the “Dark Swarm”. The old starcraft 1 spell from the defiler which did the following:
“A buzzing, orange cloud appears on the battlefield, encompassing a 6x6 matrix area in which ground units take no damage from ranged weapons. Only units melee attacks, splash damage, or special weaponry are able to affect a unit underneath a Dark Swarm. Swarm will only protect units: Any buildings in the cloud are still vulnerable to attacks by ranged weapons. Note that all ground units (including enemy units) are protected.”
I think the stats from sc1 would work fine in sc2. The reason I feel Dark Swarm would be so viable to zerg is because we know colossus just dominates zergs ground army with that range upgrade. I think this would allow zerg to put up a fight against an army of mass colossus and what not. Plus I think it fits the infestors theme quite well.
So I wanted to know as a community, as a whole do you think Infestors should get the Dark Swarm Ability?
Poll: Should Infestors Have Darkswarm Ability?No (299) 68% Yes (116) 26% Undecided (27) 6% 442 total votes Your vote: Should Infestors Have Darkswarm Ability? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Undecided
Sources:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119839
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120200
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Dark_Swarm
PS: My first real thoughout post and I hope I get some nice feedback  .
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
I went to vote no but missclicked.
Darkswarm I personally feel isn't needed in this game. When a zerg got Dark Swarm in Brood War it pretty much meant they could do anything they wanted against terran if the terran didn't kill the defiler. It forced you to constantly move back and put you at a massive dissadvantage if you couldn't snipe the defiler fast enough, and if ever you had a defiler outside of your nat, yeah it was GG as there was no way you could actually push back out with anything bar mass firebats if you got incredibly lucky.
Darkswarm is one of those abilities that I personally feel shouldn't have a place in SC2. The infestor already has a plaguu style move which stops the terran or protoss balls from actually moving, while slowly losing life. They can mindcontrol a tank, thor or collosus and do some deadly damage on a protoss or terran ball if micro'd around correctly to allow them to get the MC off on whatever unit they need without dying instantly, why do you seriously need a swarm which means your units take no damage from ranged? It's not as if you can't just pump units out massively fast anyway.
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SC2 needs more new abilities, not new units with old abilities.
Voted no.
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it's such a powerful spell... terran doesn't even have a melee unit aside from the scv do they? would the hellion's attack work in swarm? you'd have to move infestors to tier 3 or make it a tier 3 research or both maybe... the only melee units that aren't zerg in sc2 are zealots and dts... what special attacks would work through swam? maybe make archon attack go through swarm so people have a reason to get them again? terran would just be completely fucked even worse than in sc1 as soon as zerg had swarm out. banelings under swarm? ewwwwwwwwww...
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On April 19 2010 19:27 G4MR wrote:
The reason I feel Dark Swarm would be so viable to zerg is because we know colossus just dominates zergs ground army with that range upgrade.
Dark Swarm would not protect from Colossi, since they do some kind of splashdamage.
So P could still work with Colossi, Zealots and Storm under Dark Swarm while Terran without Vessels is completely screwed.
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Dark swarm would break the game. Terran has no counter. end of story
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On April 19 2010 19:43 Chen wrote:
Dark swarm would break the game. Terran has no counter. end of story
Hellion... Siege Tanks.... Yeah they have splash.
Anyway. I don't feel right having Dark Swarm on Infestor.
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It was a great ability, but no, darkswarm doesn't fit in into sc2, the game is to different to just port over an ability like that.
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well... if it needs to be new...:
a cloud to remove any secondary damage, including tank-, baneling- or archon splash, colossus multizap, muta glaive etc - only the targeted unit would get hit
edit: nuke defense o.O
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imo, currently sc2 lacks of micro-intensive spells and moves anyways
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50208 Posts
while we are wishing...lets wish for lurkers too...
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Dark Swarm would fit in, Lurkers not so much.
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Infesters need new abilities but Blizzard shouldn't necessarily solve this with dark swarm. Dark swarm's not a bad ability, but I'd rather see something fresh.
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Zerg lacks interesting abilities in general. Yes to the return of DarkSwarm.
And I really don't see how it would "break the game" like some others put it. First of all DarkSwarm was only really powerful because it comboed with consume for infinite energy, and second you really cannot claim melee is even reasonably powerful mid-late game. Lings are only good as harass or part of a Baneling bust, and let's not even get into Ultras...
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Voted no because I don't want a SC1 spell to fix zerg. Besides, if you added something this powerful the entire race would have to be redesigned weaker.
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I dont like how infestor comes with all three spells, and the upgrades for him is really bad. Never really seen anyone use infestor burrow move yet. Would like to see infested terran get removed, and give them a spell they can upgrade.
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They already took dark swam and gave it to terrans.
Point Defense Drone
I'm all for more abilities and diversity for Zerg, but dark swam to Zerg won't cut it for SC2.
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dark swarm is a terrible spell and infestors are already very good. if you want to mess with z fix the fact that roaches are too strong and hydras are too weak.
not terrible as in bad, terrible as in makes for shitty games
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Dark Swarm is already in game.
It's been renamed to 'Point Defense Drone'.
The removal of Dark Swarm is, personally, why I think that Ultras are so weak now. The lack of it removes any viability the unit might've had.
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SC2 needs more new abilities, not new units with old abilities.
I'm agreeing with this one.
But I also very much agree that the infestor needs some redesign. I would most likely see some new more usefull spells in the infestor arsenal, but sadly I don't really know what to suggest (though I do believe that the forum is probably full of them). But if this is the case, then it should be a new ability, not an old sc1-ability. I was quite sad to see the protoss mothership just turned into a huge slow arbiter, since it's not really bringing any new abilities into the game anymore.
As a bare minimum to fix the infestor as it is today I suggest buffing the infested marines. As opposed to most people I quite enjoy this spell (I have a personal love for summoned units). I think it can be useful in pitched battles as you could summon in more cannon-fodder as well as in some sneaky tactics. One of my favourites is burrowing 5-6 infestors, and sneaking them into an undefended enemy expansion. Then popping up and spamming infested marines. At the cost of 25 energy, you get up to 8 marines per infestor, which can be quite the sizable army. But this really isn't effective in high level play (but I highly encourage people to try it out in FFA's), since the marines do too little damage and have a redicilous short lifespan, to make it worthwhile.
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No. It would require major zerg nerfs across the board. Also, I'd like to see the game less spell dependent overall; less storm, less emp, less fungal growth.
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hmm... im not really sure about this one... if they did add Darkswarm then it would have to work a bit differently i think. Maybe the infestor releases an orange gas (Darkswarm) around it so it and it has to channel it so it can not move and if the infestor dies the darkswarm goes away or until the duration ends or even have the infestor lose energy per second while channeling... it would probably need hive tech to research at infestor pit as well... voted undecided
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I play zerg and I like the infestor as it is.
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also: would rather have the cannibalize thingy back - paired with the option to consume changelings
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On April 19 2010 20:03 Genesis128 wrote:I'm agreeing with this one. But I also very much agree that the infestor needs some redesign. I would most likely see some new more usefull spells in the infestor arsenal, but sadly I don't really know what to suggest (though I do believe that the forum is probably full of them). But if this is the case, then it should be a new ability, not an old sc1-ability. I was quite sad to see the protoss mothership just turned into a huge slow arbiter, since it's not really bringing any new abilities into the game anymore. As a bare minimum to fix the infestor as it is today I suggest buffing the infested marines. As opposed to most people I quite enjoy this spell (I have a personal love for summoned units). I think it can be useful in pitched battles as you could summon in more cannon-fodder as well as in some sneaky tactics. One of my favourites is burrowing 5-6 infestors, and sneaking them into an undefended enemy expansion. Then popping up and spamming infested marines. At the cost of 25 energy, you get up to 8 marines per infestor, which can be quite the sizable army. But this really isn't effective in high level play (but I highly encourage people to try it out in FFA's), since the marines do too little damage and have a redicilous short lifespan, to make it worthwhile.
As you say it doesn't work that well in a game where people actually know that detectors are something mandatory. Besides that it's alot more cost-effective to just use 6-8 Roaches to get the same work done.
Im not sure if I want Dark Swarm back but I really want some more range for FG and NP or durability for the Infestor in form of spells while burrowed or a smaller model+more HP or armor.
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On April 19 2010 20:04 Bob123 wrote:
No. It would require major zerg nerfs across the board. Also, I'd like to see the game less spell dependent overall; less storm, less emp, less fungal growth.
Indeed it would require an overall nerf to Zerg. I actually think it would be a positive change though, bringing more uniqueness to the race.
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Actually this would benefit terran more than zerg, because hellions roflrape lings and then everything else in darkswarm.
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On April 19 2010 20:19 valaki wrote:
Actually this would benefit terran more than zerg, because hellions roflrape lings and then everything else in darkswarm.
that could give ultras a bigger more defined role tho...
yay theorycrafting! n_n
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 19 2010 20:21 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 20:19 valaki wrote:
Actually this would benefit terran more than zerg, because hellions roflrape lings and then everything else in darkswarm. that could give ultras a bigger more defined role tho... yay theorycrafting! n_n
Ultras are so powerful, if you give them a swarm to sit in to take no damage, it would be heavily, heavily imbalanced.
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That would make the Infestor much more useful indeed, but turning SC2 into BroodWar isn't very creative, is it? Let's hope they come up with something new to fix zerg diversity.
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On April 19 2010 20:03 Genesis128 wrote:
But I also very much agree that the infestor needs some redesign.
Why? A cloaked caster (move while burrow is the Zerg equivalent of cloaking) who can stop enemy troops from rearranging and forming a good concave isnt good enough? Everyone whines about the Marauder and his slow effect, but you get a much stronger and longer lasting effect and dont like it?
More useful than that is hardly possible ... apart from any "Infestor spends 200 energy and Zerg wins the game"-spell.
IMO the biggest "problem" with Infestors is that most Zerg pretty much "forget" to research burrow nowadays. During the first two weeks (?) of the beta everyone got burrow to heal up Roaches and attempt microing. Nowadays you simply build more of them, because they are dead cheap. So the poor Infestors dont have burrow to defend themselves and consequently suck. Also I dont think sticking Infestors in the back of your army and casting the Zerg version of "psi-storm" is the best way to use them.
- drop them on a mineral line and harrass workers ... Fungal Growth plus an infested Terran
- cast Fungal Growth on a group of Marines rushing up / down the ramp to have the Zerg version of Forcefield
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On April 19 2010 20:26 Qikz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 19 2010 20:21 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 20:19 valaki wrote:
Actually this would benefit terran more than zerg, because hellions roflrape lings and then everything else in darkswarm. that could give ultras a bigger more defined role tho... yay theorycrafting! n_n Ultras are so powerful, if you give them a swarm to sit in to take no damage, it would be heavily, heavily imbalanced.
ultras are super underused because BL are a much better choice
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Hello everyone, first time poster here.
I saw this suggestion of yours and I thought that you are entitled to ask for such an ability as the zerg lack flavor (imo). However I was thinking about a variation of this ability which would be both new in Starcraft and complement the zerg in a good way, without straying to far from the original dark swam ability. Here it is:
Creep Fog:
Description: Creates an area of creep spores at around a target point reducing enemy visibility and augmenting the movement speed of zerg units in the area.
Effects: Reduces all ranged and spell damage to units inside the fog by 50% and increases the movement speed of zerg units inside the area by 30%(edit: does not stack with creep movement speed bonus).
Area of Effect: 5x5
Duration: 20 seconds
Of course all the numbers can be tweaked.
The idea behind it is to act like a weaker version of the darkswarm in terms of damage reduction, but at the same time to counter psionic storms and siege fire attacks. Furthermore, zerg will gain the same movement speed bonus, like they would have on creep.
What do you think?
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I Think that there should be an upgrade for infestors that give their infested terrans a much longer lifespan. They'd be viable then i think.
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On April 19 2010 20:38 okrane wrote:
Hello everyone, first time poster here.
I saw this suggestion of yours and I thought that you are entitled to ask for such an ability as the zerg lack flavor (imo). However I was thinking about a variation of this ability which would be both new in Starcraft and complement the zerg in a good way, without straying to far from the original dark swam ability. Here it is:
Creep Fog:
Description: Creates an area of creep spores at around a target point reducing enemy visibility and augmenting the movement speed of zerg units in the area.
Effects: Reduces all ranged and spell damage to units inside the fog by 50% and increases the movement speed of zerg units inside the area by 30%.
Area of Effect: 5x5
Duration: 20 seconds
Of course all the numbers can be tweaked.
The idea behind it is to act like a weaker version of the darkswarm in terms of damage reduction, but at the same time to counter psionic storms and siege fire attacks. Furthermore, zerg will gain the same movement speed bonus, like they would have on creep.
What do you think?
decent idea except the part where it reduces spell damage... nothing should reduce spell dmg and not too sure about the movement speed because creep already increases speed greatly. Dont think it would fit very well
but u get an A for the effort
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On April 19 2010 20:55 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 20:38 okrane wrote:
Hello everyone, first time poster here.
I saw this suggestion of yours and I thought that you are entitled to ask for such an ability as the zerg lack flavor (imo). However I was thinking about a variation of this ability which would be both new in Starcraft and complement the zerg in a good way, without straying to far from the original dark swam ability. Here it is:
Creep Fog:
Description: Creates an area of creep spores at around a target point reducing enemy visibility and augmenting the movement speed of zerg units in the area.
Effects: Reduces all ranged and spell damage to units inside the fog by 50% and increases the movement speed of zerg units inside the area by 30%.
Area of Effect: 5x5
Duration: 20 seconds
Of course all the numbers can be tweaked.
The idea behind it is to act like a weaker version of the darkswarm in terms of damage reduction, but at the same time to counter psionic storms and siege fire attacks. Furthermore, zerg will gain the same movement speed bonus, like they would have on creep.
What do you think?
decent idea except the part where it reduces spell damage... nothing should reduce spell dmg and not too sure about the movement speed because creep already increases speed greatly. Dont think it would fit very well but u get an A for the effort
About the movement speed: of course it should not stack with creep movement speed bonus (I'll clarify in my post).
This ability is meant as an extra window of oportunity for the zerg to get in position(in melee range of tanks, faster surrounds, close in quicker on those sentries) - basically emphasizing mobility, that which the zerg are best at.
So consider it as a spell which brings the creep where it is needed for the movement speed bonus coupled with a weaker version of the dark swarm.
I figured I'd throw in some spell damage reduction in there to counter storms, but its not really the core of this ability.
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Whats funny is that they sorta gave this ability to the raven.
Think about it, point defense drone is like a darkswarm in that it negates ranged attacks. Not all, but enough that most units fall to it. However, the real imbalance is that terran itself is comprised of ranged units unlike the old zergs of sc1 whereby the hydralisk was the main ranged unit which is not commonly used in conjunction with darkswarm.
Watching inka vs qxc just showed how imba the point defense drone is. Having a PDD on field negates stalkers and phoenixes. Then tell me just how is protoss supposed to deal with a mass of banshees or vikings?
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On April 19 2010 19:37 k!llua wrote:
SC2 needs more new abilities, not new units with old abilities.
couldnt agree more. besides i dont really feel like there is much "new" stuff for zerg units anyway.. at least not if youre comparing it to the other races.. does zerg have a single thing that hasnt been seen in BW somewhere? and yes, i am ignoring queen/creep/vomit/tumors 
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On April 19 2010 21:29 Crissaegrim wrote:
Whats funny is that they sorta gave this ability to the raven.
Think about it, point defense drone is like a darkswarm in that it negates ranged attacks. Not all, but enough that most units fall to it. However, the real imbalance is that terran itself is comprised of ranged units unlike the old zergs of sc1 whereby the hydralisk was the main ranged unit which is not commonly used in conjunction with darkswarm.
Watching inka vs qxc just showed how imba the point defense drone is. Having a PDD on field negates stalkers and phoenixes. Then tell me just how is protoss supposed to deal with a mass of banshees or vikings?
I presume your imba as imbalance but you can't balance loss of creativity. I have seen Feedback working pretty well vs my units with energy and Terran get a lot of them for an example.
However back to the topic: No for swarm returning. This is a new game and I would like to see more new possibilities rather than easy copy paste Brood War schematics. What is more I think current Infestor spells aren't so awful to be completely redesigned.
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Yeah, I think that point defense drone will be nerfed at some point, if you are able to pump 2 or 3 ravens against a ranged army you'll rape it.
I really liked Okrane's idea, but if we want a totally new spell I would go for something like this:
Creep trap, you may only cast it on creep, all units moving into the creep trap area of spell get entangled on creep forming a cocoon, units can't attack or receive damage for the duration of the spell, duration 7 seconds, AoS 3x3.
This spell main focus is defense against P&T but could be used combined with the new creep mechanics to make an ambush.
A variant of this could be that you can cast it anywhere but it only affects biological units.
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Make infestors smaller. They're so f'ing huge and I hate looking at them.
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On April 19 2010 22:09 guitarizt wrote:
Make infestors smaller. They're so f'ing huge and I hate looking at them.
this and minus the armored attribute
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On April 19 2010 19:39 dNo_O wrote:
it's such a powerful spell... terran doesn't even have a melee unit aside from the scv do they? would the hellion's attack work in swarm? you'd have to move infestors to tier 3 or make it a tier 3 research or both maybe... the only melee units that aren't zerg in sc2 are zealots and dts... what special attacks would work through swam? maybe make archon attack go through swarm so people have a reason to get them again? terran would just be completely fucked even worse than in sc1 as soon as zerg had swarm out. banelings under swarm? ewwwwwwwwww...
well, if i do recall, the seige tank seige mode hits thru swarm, as would the hellion, and probably HSM. aside from that... i dont think there is anything else
so, yea. ewwwwwwwwwww
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Overlaps with Raven PDD, which is a far more balanced version of Dark Swarm since it only effects projectiles. Zerg has got the new larve macro mechanic and creep tumor mechanic to encorage more macro and mass. Fungal Growth is good enough already anyway.
This is the same problem with adding a lurker like unit (even on T3), Zerg already has mobile defense that burrows.
Overlapping units is really bad. Look no further then the Terran Tanks and Thor. Thor initially had aoe but hell that overlapped with the sige tank, can't have that. Tanks were now also overlapped with the Thor, can't have that either. So now we have two less then idea units as a result... yey?
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On April 19 2010 22:39 Black Octopi wrote:
Overlaps with Raven PDD, which is a far more balanced version of Dark Swarm since it only effects projectiles. Zerg has got the new larve macro mechanic and creep tumor mechanic to encorage more macro and mass. Fungal Growth is good enough already anyway.
This is the same problem with adding a lurker like unit (even on T3), Zerg already has mobile defense that burrows.
Overlapping units is really bad. Look no further then the Terran Tanks and Thor. Thor initially had aoe but hell that overlapped with the sige tank, can't have that. Tanks were now also overlapped with the Thor, can't have that either. So now we have two less then idea units as a result... yey?
Enlighten me, what is this burrowing unit you speak off. Because I don't know what game sc2 version you are playing, but my spine crawlers aren't underground.
And yes you can use lurkers defensively, but they sure as hell aren't only for that purpose.
The only difference between sc1 is that "sunkens" aren't immobile.
And the thor and the siege tank overlapping? oO
And even if they were overlapping, they are on different races, how would dark swarm and PDD overlap for zerg?
And your reasoning Zerg now has creeptumors/queens so that makes up for the fact that all their units are just completely boring now?
Oh okay, Terran has mules and calldown supply and more add-ons, might as well take out every new unit then, because they got those.
I'm agreeing that dark swarm shouldn't come back, but your reasoning for it (and the lurker) is just completely wrong
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I want to see a zerg with micro-intensive units that are fun to use. The terran have reapers, protoss have dt and the zerg have nothing. From all the streams and video I see terran looks to be the most fun to play with. Being a zerg player in sc1 I would prefer to see a new unit rather than an ability added to an existing unit.
And bringing back dark swarm is not gonna help with balance as I saw a poll earlier saying zerg is the strongest race.
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I think the infestor should be able to suck light, biological units underground (burrow+paralysis), and if it moves to their position before it wears off, devour them for energy. I also think it should be able to attack buildings over time without there being any notification to the owner of the building and eventually have them burst into swarms of broodlings. And I'd like to see an area effect goop that cuts the range of ranged attacks in half, rounded down. I think it should be able to do all of these things while burrowed.
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Short answer: No, it does not need Dark Swarm.
Long answer: No, it does not need Dark swarm, period.
I use neural pretty often in pvz (wassup immortals in pushes) and obviously fungal growth.
If anything... I would not mind a little more range on neural, and infested terrans having something a little more interesting... but hell, compare the infestor to some of the other casters in the game.
HT: 1 spell used
Sentry: 1 spell often, another spell semi often
Raven: Kinda here and there?
I have a zerg caster with a spell I use often, and one spell I use when the situation calls for it.... I am fine with that.
edit: Maybe make infested terrans have a monsterous bonus vs air... like 4 +12 or some shit? Then you can mix up alternatives rather than 'I need hydra at some point in case he likes air'
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i really like the Creep Trap ability someone mentioned earlier... it fits well with the lore and would be a lot of fun to use. it doesn't seem any more imbalanced than protoss's forcefield spamming... and it would make creep an even more interesting mechanic... i hope someone from blizz reads that suggestion because i think it's one of the best i've heard in a long time.
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It seems the OP didn't think this out very much...
On April 19 2010 22:09 guitarizt wrote:
Make infestors smaller. They're so f'ing huge and I hate looking at them.
People already have trouble believing they can spit out 8 infested terrans, and you want to make them SMALLER?
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Personally, I love the dark swarm as every Z player but Infestor is yet quite annoying with the Neutral Parasite, giving it Dark Swarm is something...I don't know, maybe just OP
Lol, just imagine getting your Thors controlled and smash your army, Colosies is a bit harder maybe
And Infested Terran doesn't seems to make any sense although the idea is funny, I mean the unit can't just spit out the unit and those creatures have guns ! =))
Fungal Grow is like Ensnare mixed up with Plague
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On April 19 2010 23:18 ComradeDover wrote:It seems the OP didn't think this out very much... Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 22:09 guitarizt wrote:
Make infestors smaller. They're so f'ing huge and I hate looking at them. People already have trouble believing they can spit out 8 infested terrans, and you want to make them SMALLER?
Just came to me as an idea at first (about 4am), then people shed light about the raven (which I forgot about).
Zerg himself already spoken though, was a good discussion.
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Dark Swarm is really a terrible ability from a spectator point of view as it covers up the whole battle, I imagine that's part of the reason why they would cut it from sc2.
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Imo infestors could need something useful instead of the infested marines spell because its so useless, but dark swarm seems a bit over the top because they already have a pretty good ae spell.
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I say nay, but I don't see it being too much of a problem so long as you don't give infestors consume, and up the cost of them a bit
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On April 19 2010 19:58 HDstarcraft wrote:
They already took dark swam and gave it to terrans.
Point Defense Drone
I'm all for more abilities and diversity for Zerg, but dark swam to Zerg won't cut it for SC2.
This; except they made it worse >.<
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Calgary25981 Posts
Should TL members stop trying to make SC1.1? Dark Swarm has no reason to be in SC2 whatsoever.
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On April 20 2010 01:23 Chill wrote:
Should TL members stop trying to make SC1.1? Dark Swarm has no reason to be in SC2 whatsoever.
this.
i think that people need to realize that this isnt some sort of SC1 expansion pack. its a whole new game
what would be the fun of having the same shit as the first game? it would just be right back into the same old strategies, and then people would complain how blizzard failed because its just sc1 with better graphics and etc etc etc etc
basically, if you want dark swarm, go play broodwars?
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I dont think Dark Swarm would fit in very well, I would rather see something new and fresh since there is already Point Defence Drones
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No because there is no irradiation in sc2 and units are much more clumped.
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it seems like what blizz has done is taken all the interesting mechanics from zerg in SC1 and mixed those into the other 2 races and then are hoping that they'll be able to come up with some new and interesting stuff to replace what the zerg has given to the other races....
terran and protoss are really well done and interesting on many different levels... zerg just isn't there yet.. hopefully they'll come out with a new patch that overhauls zerg and puts it on the same level as the other 2 races... i don't think dark swarm or lurkers are the answer... but they really need to make some massive changes and mix things up asap.
personally i'd like to see the infestor get the transfusion ability from the queen and the queen to get the spawn infested terran ability from the infestor... i think that would fit the units better and give zerg something to help hold off early air rushes... and it would make infestors more useful to keep with your army.
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I read an interesting idea on the SC2 forums.
Would it be better if 'Spawn Infested terran' was replaced by something similar to "parasite"
Parasite: 50 energy
Places a parasite on a unit. 4 broodlings spawn when the parasited unit dies.
It would feel more valid than the current Spawn infested terran. It would play either as a bomb or force the player to kill off that unit in a safe sport.
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Please keep Dark swarm out of SC2. The way they re did it with the PPD is good enough, limited charges on the ability for stopping missles and a smaller radius.
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On April 20 2010 01:48 Tdelamay wrote:
I read an interesting idea on the SC2 forums.
Would it be better if 'Spawn Infested terran' was replaced by something similar to "parasite"
Parasite: 50 energy
Places a parasite on a unit. 4 broodlings spawn when the parasited unit dies.
It would feel more valid than the current Spawn infested terran. It would play either as a bomb or force the player to kill off that unit in a safe sport.
i like this idea... a lot.
you can parasite up a nice handful of units, then engage with what appears a trivial force, but then after the units start dying, broods pop out and turn the tide.
great idea - id start a new thread about it but i dont want to steal ur shit 
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Darkswarm might be way to imba for infestor, also someone pointed out that Point Defence Drone is Darkswarm just tweaked.
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i like the parasite idea... but i'd rather see it on a unit like the corruptor... if it can corrupt buildings, why not be able to corrupt units also? and honestly right now the corruptor is really just a wasted intermediary step to broodlords... giving them an ability to use against units would make them at least slightly useful to keep with your ground army other than corrupting planetary fortresses.
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dark swarm would never work in this game.
edit: i like the parasite idea as posted above.
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dark swarm would break terran so hard, since terran has no counter. I still think the lurker should come back, or at least something that take up his role.
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buff infested terrans and we'll be happy
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I voted no. Like alot of people said earlier, I think SC2 should have new abilities. There is already plenty of recycled old abilities.
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I haven't made an infestor in 100 games. The current state of it offends me. This was the unit I was most excited to see. A support unit / harass unit that could burrow move underground. What an awesome concept, but it is completely useless because blizzard seems to want it to be a ball enhancer rather than a potentially standalone unit like a ghost.
Dark swarm is not the answer. There are no shortage of good ideas on this forum for the infestor to try out. I kinda like that ability to explode buildings into broodlings. Kind of like a more focused version of nuke, if it could be done while burrowed. Hell anything is better than what it has now. Infested terran makes me wretch.
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I think zerg needs something new idk if this would be it though..
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They just need to revert some of the nerfs to the infestor I think. The range nerf of Neural Parasite made it inviable. The health and speed nerfs made it generally a very weak and risky unit to use. The Fungal Growth damage nerf made it so that it can't kill any unit (This is probably OK, but combined with the other nerfs, having this damage back might be nice).
Infested terrans could use a shorter incubation period. If they were eggs for a shorter period of time they would start dealing their damage sooner, and then start getting targetted by AI faster meaning they could act as meat shields. Right now the battle is often nearly decided before the terrans would even hatch, and the decision is generally "you probably should have FG'd instead"
Or they could be used as emergency harass defense ie: you FG the banshees coming into your base, and then spawn terrans to finish them off. At the moment, they take so long to hatch the FG has worn off and the eggs are pretty much dead.
I'm not sure why they decided to nerf the infestor hard right after the interview where they said they wanted more people to start getting more use out of it.
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how about a dark swarm in which the ranged attack is reduced by a certain percentage? I don't know , let's say 30%? Or something like a dark swarm that resembles the effect of high ground advantage in SC1? Ranged unit would have a certain percentage chance of missing or something.
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I am a zerg player and i would have to say having darkswarm would make zerg really unfair. I think to make things fair they need to rework the ultralisk big time to fit into a zerg's army more fluently and to also possibly add 1-2 units and even take away 1 of the current units.
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i said it before but I'll say it again: maybe zerg doesnt need dark swarm in particular but they definitely need a spell that makes melee units more viable in the late game, which dark swarm does very nicely. Maybe just a nerfed version of it? I mean without consume, it's a lot less game-changing but still nice.
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On April 20 2010 01:48 Tdelamay wrote:
I read an interesting idea on the SC2 forums.
Would it be better if 'Spawn Infested terran' was replaced by something similar to "parasite"
Parasite: 50 energy
Places a parasite on a unit. 4 broodlings spawn when the parasited unit dies.
It would feel more valid than the current Spawn infested terran. It would play either as a bomb or force the player to kill off that unit in a safe sport.
Maybe if they replaced neural parasite with this parasite that would be cool, but I'll be honest I like the spawn infested terran ability
...ironically I don't use spawn infested terran in ZvP, dunno why...
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I don`t agree with return of dark swarm, because it will be just another copy of old things. But surely I would to see some new, cool and original feature. Something what will brake current mass stereotype of this game.
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SC2 is not the same fucking thing as sc1. Get the fuck over it already its supposed to be different.
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The infestor needs a rework but dark swarm would be a very bad choice. SC2 needs something new and is not supposed to be a 1:1 copy of sc:bw.
Also your reasoning that dark swarm would be useful against collosi doesn't make sense. Dark swarm caused units to miss by shifting their shot to the side. Collosi have a AoE attack, which even if shifted would hit units underneath the dark swarm (much like the archon in sc:bw did).
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On April 20 2010 04:05 DrSmoke wrote:
SC2 is not the same fucking thing as sc1. Get the fuck over it already its supposed to be different.
Got damn, it seem's like deja vu. Right? Chill. See what I did there?
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I have a feeling that units like Dark Archon, Lurkers and Defilers will come into SC2 when the expansion is released
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No! Dark swarm = bad! lol. I would like a new ability personally. I don't think we need another unit though. Maybe adding something to the corrupter. I liked that idea. But on a serious note, perhaps we could just add more health to the ultralisk so they are more viable late game. They feel a little squishy.
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EPT
