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[Show] Weapon of Choice - 7:00 PM EDT - Page 103

Forum Index > SC2 General
2146 CommentsPost a Reply
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Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
July 22 2011 23:49 GMT
#2041
On July 23 2011 03:53 Slasher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 03:47 FXOpen wrote:
On July 23 2011 03:44 Slasher wrote:
If it makes anyone feel any better I plan on kicking Alex in the dick on Lo3 next week for his comments on Milkis regarding journalism


Invite me onto it !!!

You just got your SOTG spotlight!

Make it happen! He showed on SotG he gets straight to the point and doesn't dance around questions like certain other individuals, and the show is "no fluff" right =P
laguu
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland278 Posts
July 23 2011 00:06 GMT
#2042
Wheat I was angry at you after watching the episode but now I understand how hard it must be to moderate such a debate. I'm sure you learned a ton and I hope you will bring more golden content to us in the future. <3 all your shows.
Arguing with a fool proves there are two.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
July 23 2011 00:15 GMT
#2043
On July 23 2011 07:13 Sylvr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 03:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
On July 23 2011 03:05 Sylvr wrote:
On July 23 2011 00:16 Torte de Lini wrote:
The overall issue is that the EG director thinks Milkis' job was to "journalistically" follow-up on the story when he's simply the translator

I think that's the overall issue and problem here. All fucked-up things aside, it all started when the director misinterprets Milkis role and then runs with it to lay down everything else he says.


I agree with the point that Alex was trying to make. TL is very nearly unique in that it is the central hub of a community while being almost completely volunteer driven. What I think Alex was trying to say is that news and articles generated and translated by TL are largely viewed as Official. As such the articles that come out here can, and often do, have real consequences and cause real backlash. When an article comes out written with an obvious bias or given a spin from the offset, the community will largely accept that point of view out of hand and one side will be left fighting an uphill battle just to plead their case.

Asking the TL community to take a more responsible and journalistic approach to their articles is perfectly reasonable. If they aren't willing to try to get both sides of the story, then they should either form their article to be non-biased, or state their biases up front and plainly, making certain that they read as opinions.

The majority of people don't think critically of an article that they consider Official, as many on TL are. Many will believe the first view given to them if an alternative isn't given, and as the saying goes, "The first impression is a lasting one". When the article is original in addition to being "Official", the issue is compounded as that article will be the most quoted and copied with all of its bias and spin intact.


There are no rumors or bias in the article

There is no poor journalism as far as I can read. On TL's part at least, no.


I reread Milkis' article, and you are right. He did nothing but quote Coach Lee and state the facts that were known at the time. As such, it was EG's (Alex's) responsibility to respond in a timely manner rather than expect Milkis to have contacted him or written his article differently.

I had mixed up the contents of the article with the obvious bias that Milkis showed during the show. He was hearing EG's side of the story at the same time as everyone else, but obvously, he had already condemned them for some sort of foul play

Alex's point doesn't apply to Milkis, but it does still stand on it's own merit. I'm reminded of when it was announced that Team Liquid wasn't going to participate in some tournament in the past and the same subject of them not getting to give their side before public opinion was fixed was a big topic on that week's SotG.

I can very much empathize with Alex's situation where he wanted to state his views on the effect that TL's forums could have while being very conscious that it would come off sounding like an accusation. I've made similar speeches myself, and though I considered the case in front of me to be tangential, I wasn't trying to stick the person across from me with that label. It worked out about as well as it did with Alex.

(An example: You're out with a friend who sits down on a faulty chair and the leg snaps and plants him on the floor. A thought hits that you decide to speak out loud, You say "You know, places should provide extra sturdy chairs for fat people." Obviously, your friend is going to think you're calling him fat, but maybe you're just talking about chairs.)

As for whether there WAS any foul play involved that EG should be condemned for... I don't see it. Korea may not do things the same way, but that doesn't make other ways wrong.


There is a time and place for everything. Why would he even bring that up if it wasn't relevant to the discussion at hand? I believe he even mentioning that Milkis should have asked his word before posting the translation. As much as what you are trying to say may be valid for other situations, it was clear this was not the case.

If he has a problem with TL's policy regarding translations, he had much, much better ways, places, persons and situation to bring it up.
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
July 23 2011 00:18 GMT
#2044
On July 23 2011 08:49 Duravi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 03:53 Slasher wrote:
On July 23 2011 03:47 FXOpen wrote:
On July 23 2011 03:44 Slasher wrote:
If it makes anyone feel any better I plan on kicking Alex in the dick on Lo3 next week for his comments on Milkis regarding journalism


Invite me onto it !!!

You just got your SOTG spotlight!

Make it happen! He showed on SotG he gets straight to the point and doesn't dance around questions like certain other individuals, and the show is "no fluff" right =P


Yeah. Besides, he's a total Boss.
myth_au
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia39 Posts
July 23 2011 08:37 GMT
#2045
After the recent drama involving EG and Puma, i wanted to listen to weapon of choice since it discussed the issue. If you haven't watched/ listened to it, i think it is worth watching, mainly i think it highlights personalities. I have only seen Wheet as a caster so this was the first time i saw him as a host.

At the outset, there was a prominent theme that come out throughout the show, mainly i felt there was an ambush/attack on Milkis (the translator). Really as the show went on i got a point where i felt as though he was defending on so many fronts (for even things he couldnt really control).

The show screamed of bias, the host (Wheat) who i would assume should be fair really sided with EG on so many fronts it not funny. He tries alot to corner Milkis into a particular answer.

My observation of this particular episode was that AG (is a complete ass), the later part of the show tried to shift blame (in my view complete blame) to Milkis. In summary "it was why didn't you contact me for my side". AG says it was "legal and ethical" right what he did that is he didnt talk to Coach Lee. And following this Wheat goes or says words to the effect of "F*** this S*** is gonna happen" or "wake the F*** up". Legally i wont comment that it is black and white. Ethically it is a point of view and it was not ethically correct for so many reason, but primarily because AG did not respect the Korean culture.

I would like to give an example of why it wasn't ethically correct. AG talks about it was a western perspective (saying it was right). However, I know for a fact that, many orginisations when dealing internationally OFTEN (if not ALWAYS) consults people to know about the country they are approaching. WHY do organisations do this, mianly to make sure they don't disrespect the culture and to ensure a continued relationship.

EG in its dealing with Puma DID NO RESEARCH and AG does not sincerely apologise, and defends his actions on the basis that in the Western culture it is okay. I don't disagree with this because i am from a western country. However, he this forgets a very important fact, EG is not dealing with a western culture they are entering the Korean culture.

In any event, i found the show to be very bias and often Wheat and AG would often stop Milkis from responding/interrupting. Sigh.

Interested to know if anyone else noticed to above or am i just being picky.
jexxto
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom284 Posts
July 23 2011 08:50 GMT
#2046
On July 23 2011 17:37 myth_au wrote:
After the recent drama involving EG and Puma, i wanted to listen to weapon of choice since it discussed the issue. If you haven't watched/ listened to it, i think it is worth watching, mainly i think it highlights personalities. I have only seen Wheet as a caster so this was the first time i saw him as a host.

At the outset, there was a prominent theme that come out throughout the show, mainly i felt there was an ambush/attack on Milkis (the translator). Really as the show went on i got a point where i felt as though he was defending on so many fronts (for even things he couldnt really control).

The show screamed of bias, the host (Wheat) who i would assume should be fair really sided with EG on so many fronts it not funny. He tries alot to corner Milkis into a particular answer.

My observation of this particular episode was that AG (is a complete ass), the later part of the show tried to shift blame (in my view complete blame) to Milkis. In summary "it was why didn't you contact me for my side". AG says it was "legal and ethical" right what he did that is he didnt talk to Coach Lee. And following this Wheat goes or says words to the effect of "F*** this S*** is gonna happen" or "wake the F*** up". Legally i wont comment that it is black and white. Ethically it is a point of view and it was not ethically correct for so many reason, but primarily because AG did not respect the Korean culture.

I would like to give an example of why it wasn't ethically correct. AG talks about it was a western perspective (saying it was right). However, I know for a fact that, many orginisations when dealing internationally OFTEN (if not ALWAYS) consults people to know about the country they are approaching. WHY do organisations do this, mianly to make sure they don't disrespect the culture and to ensure a continued relationship.

EG in its dealing with Puma DID NO RESEARCH and AG does not sincerely apologise, and defends his actions on the basis that in the Western culture it is okay. I don't disagree with this because i am from a western country. However, he this forgets a very important fact, EG is not dealing with a western culture they are entering the Korean culture.

In any event, i found the show to be very bias and often Wheat and AG would often stop Milkis from responding/interrupting. Sigh.

Interested to know if anyone else noticed to above or am i just being picky.


Wheat is pretty much on the EG payroll so it's not shocking to hear him side with EG.
Multi Gaming Clan http://www.riffraffclan.co.uk
Blitzkrieg09
Profile Joined January 2011
United States39 Posts
July 23 2011 08:56 GMT
#2047
I just don't get the controversy. Puma was not obligated (by contract) to TSL. That really should be the end of it. EG offered him a job that he obviously wanted over his current situation.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
July 23 2011 09:04 GMT
#2048
What I got from the show was that the manager is a very smooth talker.

The question was why EG didn't talk to the coach directly, for some reason AG managed to steer away the conversion to something else. He keeps pulling out "bad or good" for esports more than once, like this action actually will have some drastic ramification on it. This will only effect EG.

He then, for some reason, based on this event, compares the western system to the Korean one. How is he even educated enough to make this comparison. How can he even tell that the Korean system will fail if done in western society. Again, has nothing to do with this event.

What exactly does EG's past has to do with the current actions. Just because someone has been doing something nice in the past doesn't mean that he cannot start doing bad things in the present. And this, doesn't relate to EG's actions either.

He then finishes off by saying that everyone, despite their role, should take responsibility for EG's well being. Milkis is an translator, he translated an article, note the source was the article that Milkis translated. And it's true. Nothing in the article or the translation is false, but that doesn't matter apparently, everyone, despite what they do, may it be normal posters that only say their opinions or translators that only translates already published articles, are, in EG's eyes, full fledged journalists.

Conclusion: this episode was the biggest pile of verbal diarrhea I heard in a long time. 99% of the conversion had nothing to do with the actual issue, my brain hurt just listening to it.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Dexx
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany175 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 09:10:58
July 23 2011 09:09 GMT
#2049
Puma was legally bound to TSL. If not by a written contract then by an orally binding agreement or even by mere conduct. If you are a progamer, live in a progaming house, practise all day long, have TV appereances for your team, get free accomodation or even a small salary, you don't need to have a written contract in order to be bound.

A contract made by conduct is very difficult to be enforced in terms of certain obligations, because it is very difficult to prove that both parties have agreed on that special obligation the employer tries to enforce. But the basic contract is still there. I give an example: Coach Lee wants Puma to play for 11 hours each day, but Puma has only played fpr 10 hours. Coach Lee can enforce that when they have agreed on a right for Coach Lee to do so. But when you have only a contract by conduct, it is very difficult to prove such an greement in court.

All this has no effect on the basic contract that exists, because Puma has lived in the pro house and showed up for TSL in TV games. Nevertheless, EG can pick Puma up right now and Puma won't breach a contract. Coach Lee has released Puma or they have split up amicably and thus Puma has no contractual obligations to TSL anymore.

This is basically how German contract and labour law works. But I don't think that Korean contract and labour law is much different to it.
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
July 23 2011 09:18 GMT
#2050
On July 23 2011 18:09 Dexx wrote:
Puma was legally bound to TSL. If not by a written contract then by an orally binding agreement or even by mere conduct. If you are a progamer, live in a progaming house, practise all day long, have TV appereances for your team, get free accomodation or even a small salary, you don't need to have a written contract in order to be bound.

A contract made by conduct is very difficult to be enforced in terms of certain obligations, because it is very difficult to prove that both parties have agreed on that special obligation the employer tries to enforce. But the basic contract is still there. I give an example: Coach Lee wants Puma to play for 11 hours each day, but Puma has only played fpr 10 hours. Coach Lee can enforce that when they have agreed on a right for Coach Lee to do so. But when you have only a contract by conduct, it is very difficult to prove such an greement in court.

All this has no effect on the basic contract that exists, because Puma has lived in the pro house and showed up for TSL in TV games. Nevertheless, EG can pick Puma up right now and Puma won't breach a contract. Coach Lee has released Puma or they have split up amicably and thus Puma has no contractual obligations to TSL anymore.

This is basically how German contract and labour law works. But I don't think that Korean contract and labour law is much different to it.

Generally implied contracts are not valid in situations like this though, at least in the US and UK. Their purpose is mostly to represent what a person expects out of a relationship -- for example that a doctor will perform helpful medical treatment. In an employment scenario, the employee is fully within their rights to leave whenever unless there is some form of written contract. You could quit your job tomorrow and walk out without being fined.
speedphlux
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria962 Posts
July 23 2011 09:28 GMT
#2051
Well, similar situation happened in European football (soccer) recently, with Chelsea handed a year long transfer ban for buying a youngster from the french club Lens. Youngsters in football/soccer here are not under professional contracts, which are far easier to be broken then the professional ones, so the situation is similar to extent. I got no idea what Puma's age is, but TSL could have a claim that they had a verbal agreement with the player. Of course Coach Lee released the player from this agreement after seeing his desire to join EG, but you can say this release was forced by EG, by tempering with the player's mind by offering him a much better contract then his current verbal agreement with TSL and Coach Lee.
Since such rules are not established in eSports yet and I don't think there's a force that can ban EG from further transfers for x amount of time, I think we'll find ourselves in an interesting situation, which might force GreTech (GOM.tv / GSL / GSTL) to ban EG players from participating in their tournaments for x amount of time. Would be curious if they try to negotiate with their partners from MLG to enforce a similar ban on EG for their misconduct ? I personally think it will be fair.
As for Wheat side-lining with EG on this matter ... I can just say that personally I don't like it. So far he hasn't "walked" around as EG.djWHEAT, so I'm curious why he's taking such an EG-bias stance in this argument. I got no problems with Artosis being sixJax member, nor with Wolf and unStable being FXO members in that line of thought. People say that it's because of the mutual sponsors, but I beg to differ. So far, djWHEAT has been like a "pillar" of eSports and the many communities that it has. I kinda find it difficult to believe that corporate interest will influence him. If that's the case, then he's just grown weak in the last few month. If that's just his honest opinion, then bad for him, because many of the SC2 community see it otherwise. Which means he'll no longer have the same influence in the community as previously. I honestly think that his sponsors backed him up in the first place because he was that pillar of eSports, not because he was friendly to a team that they sponsored already.
All in all, djWHEAT is loosing me as a fan and a viewer slowly in the recent shows he's put up.
... Humanity Is Not What I Suffer From ...
Dexx
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany175 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 09:42:01
July 23 2011 09:38 GMT
#2052
It is different over here. An existing contract can be mutually terminated by another contract or by dismissal from one side. Law differenciates between an extraordinary dismissal with a cause (dismissal with immediate effect for a severe breach of contract, eg stealing) and ordinary dismissal (dismissal without a cause but with a longer period). There are more regulations to follow here in Germany, but these are the basics. These basics apply to both sides.
svarog
Profile Joined May 2011
46 Posts
July 23 2011 10:30 GMT
#2053
On July 23 2011 18:28 speedphlux wrote:
Well, similar situation happened in European football (soccer) recently, with Chelsea handed a year long transfer ban for buying a youngster from the french club Lens. Youngsters in football/soccer here are not under professional contracts, which are far easier to be broken then the professional ones, so the situation is similar to extent. I got no idea what Puma's age is, but TSL could have a claim that they had a verbal agreement with the player. Of course Coach Lee released the player from this agreement after seeing his desire to join EG, but you can say this release was forced by EG, by tempering with the player's mind by offering him a much better contract then his current verbal agreement with TSL and Coach Lee.
Since such rules are not established in eSports yet and I don't think there's a force that can ban EG from further transfers for x amount of time, I think we'll find ourselves in an interesting situation, which might force GreTech (GOM.tv / GSL / GSTL) to ban EG players from participating in their tournaments for x amount of time. Would be curious if they try to negotiate with their partners from MLG to enforce a similar ban on EG for their misconduct ? I personally think it will be fair.
As for Wheat side-lining with EG on this matter ... I can just say that personally I don't like it. So far he hasn't "walked" around as EG.djWHEAT, so I'm curious why he's taking such an EG-bias stance in this argument. I got no problems with Artosis being sixJax member, nor with Wolf and unStable being FXO members in that line of thought. People say that it's because of the mutual sponsors, but I beg to differ. So far, djWHEAT has been like a "pillar" of eSports and the many communities that it has. I kinda find it difficult to believe that corporate interest will influence him. If that's the case, then he's just grown weak in the last few month. If that's just his honest opinion, then bad for him, because many of the SC2 community see it otherwise. Which means he'll no longer have the same influence in the community as previously. I honestly think that his sponsors backed him up in the first place because he was that pillar of eSports, not because he was friendly to a team that they sponsored already.
All in all, djWHEAT is loosing me as a fan and a viewer slowly in the recent shows he's put up.


This.

Bad formatting but good points.
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
July 23 2011 10:56 GMT
#2054
On July 23 2011 17:37 myth_au wrote:
After the recent drama involving EG and Puma, i wanted to listen to weapon of choice since it discussed the issue. If you haven't watched/ listened to it, i think it is worth watching, mainly i think it highlights personalities. I have only seen Wheet as a caster so this was the first time i saw him as a host.

At the outset, there was a prominent theme that come out throughout the show, mainly i felt there was an ambush/attack on Milkis (the translator). Really as the show went on i got a point where i felt as though he was defending on so many fronts (for even things he couldnt really control).

The show screamed of bias, the host (Wheat) who i would assume should be fair really sided with EG on so many fronts it not funny. He tries alot to corner Milkis into a particular answer.

My observation of this particular episode was that AG (is a complete ass), the later part of the show tried to shift blame (in my view complete blame) to Milkis. In summary "it was why didn't you contact me for my side". AG says it was "legal and ethical" right what he did that is he didnt talk to Coach Lee. And following this Wheat goes or says words to the effect of "F*** this S*** is gonna happen" or "wake the F*** up". Legally i wont comment that it is black and white. Ethically it is a point of view and it was not ethically correct for so many reason, but primarily because AG did not respect the Korean culture.

I would like to give an example of why it wasn't ethically correct. AG talks about it was a western perspective (saying it was right). However, I know for a fact that, many orginisations when dealing internationally OFTEN (if not ALWAYS) consults people to know about the country they are approaching. WHY do organisations do this, mianly to make sure they don't disrespect the culture and to ensure a continued relationship.

EG in its dealing with Puma DID NO RESEARCH and AG does not sincerely apologise, and defends his actions on the basis that in the Western culture it is okay. I don't disagree with this because i am from a western country. However, he this forgets a very important fact, EG is not dealing with a western culture they are entering the Korean culture.

In any event, i found the show to be very bias and often Wheat and AG would often stop Milkis from responding/interrupting. Sigh.

Interested to know if anyone else noticed to above or am i just being picky.

No I actually completely agree with you. I liked his casting, at MLG and whenever else I heard this, but listening to this show (I do not regularly listen to it) it does sound like he's really biased; asking Milkis questions in a sarcastic/aggressive way, almost yelling at him. I'm not going to say that it's cause he's paid by EG, but I definitely saw that he had an opinion and was defending it, rather than acting as an impartial moderator, which he positioned himself to be at the beginning of the discussion.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
July 23 2011 11:17 GMT
#2055
On July 23 2011 18:28 speedphlux wrote:
Well, similar situation happened in European football (soccer) recently, with Chelsea handed a year long transfer ban for buying a youngster from the french club Lens. Youngsters in football/soccer here are not under professional contracts, which are far easier to be broken then the professional ones, so the situation is similar to extent. I got no idea what Puma's age is, but TSL could have a claim that they had a verbal agreement with the player. Of course Coach Lee released the player from this agreement after seeing his desire to join EG, but you can say this release was forced by EG, by tempering with the player's mind by offering him a much better contract then his current verbal agreement with TSL and Coach Lee.


Yea man, EG used jedi mindtricks to fool him into taking better pay and a contract.

Wait what? Maybe Puma is allowed to have his own freedom of choice and if a better deal is offered, why can he not take it? Did Lee not already say there was no contract for Puma for TSL so I really don't get how somehow his mind was addled by evil EG businessmen.

Just really, he made a choice, it's his to make.
myth_au
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia39 Posts
July 23 2011 11:31 GMT
#2056
On July 23 2011 18:28 speedphlux wrote:
Well, similar situation happened in European football (soccer) recently, with Chelsea handed a year long transfer ban for buying a youngster from the french club Lens. Youngsters in football/soccer here are not under professional contracts, which are far easier to be broken then the professional ones, so the situation is similar to extent. I got no idea what Puma's age is, but TSL could have a claim that they had a verbal agreement with the player. Of course Coach Lee released the player from this agreement after seeing his desire to join EG, but you can say this release was forced by EG, by tempering with the player's mind by offering him a much better contract then his current verbal agreement with TSL and Coach Lee.
Since such rules are not established in eSports yet and I don't think there's a force that can ban EG from further transfers for x amount of time, I think we'll find ourselves in an interesting situation, which might force GreTech (GOM.tv / GSL / GSTL) to ban EG players from participating in their tournaments for x amount of time. Would be curious if they try to negotiate with their partners from MLG to enforce a similar ban on EG for their misconduct ? I personally think it will be fair.
As for Wheat side-lining with EG on this matter ... I can just say that personally I don't like it. So far he hasn't "walked" around as EG.djWHEAT, so I'm curious why he's taking such an EG-bias stance in this argument. I got no problems with Artosis being sixJax member, nor with Wolf and unStable being FXO members in that line of thought. People say that it's because of the mutual sponsors, but I beg to differ. So far, djWHEAT has been like a "pillar" of eSports and the many communities that it has. I kinda find it difficult to believe that corporate interest will influence him. If that's the case, then he's just grown weak in the last few month. If that's just his honest opinion, then bad for him, because many of the SC2 community see it otherwise. Which means he'll no longer have the same influence in the community as previously. I honestly think that his sponsors backed him up in the first place because he was that pillar of eSports, not because he was friendly to a team that they sponsored already.
All in all, djWHEAT is loosing me as a fan and a viewer slowly in the recent shows he's put up.



I agree with you so much mate. I have only seen Wheat so often and he has from commentator point of view being good but thsi was shocking.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 23 2011 11:36 GMT
#2057
On July 23 2011 20:17 daemir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 18:28 speedphlux wrote:
Well, similar situation happened in European football (soccer) recently, with Chelsea handed a year long transfer ban for buying a youngster from the french club Lens. Youngsters in football/soccer here are not under professional contracts, which are far easier to be broken then the professional ones, so the situation is similar to extent. I got no idea what Puma's age is, but TSL could have a claim that they had a verbal agreement with the player. Of course Coach Lee released the player from this agreement after seeing his desire to join EG, but you can say this release was forced by EG, by tempering with the player's mind by offering him a much better contract then his current verbal agreement with TSL and Coach Lee.


Yea man, EG used jedi mindtricks to fool him into taking better pay and a contract.

Wait what? Maybe Puma is allowed to have his own freedom of choice and if a better deal is offered, why can he not take it? Did Lee not already say there was no contract for Puma for TSL so I really don't get how somehow his mind was addled by evil EG businessmen.

Just really, he made a choice, it's his to make.



do you have comprehension issues or are you trying to be dense just to troll?


at the end of the day this will blow over, i honestly believe all the parties involved made honest mistakes, no matter how stupid they went about it.

the only part of this whole shitstorm that really annoys me is EGs 'my-first-PR-machine' that they try and roll out which just makes them look like the bully of the playground who can do anything they want till an even bigger kid comes a long ; /
Akta
Profile Joined February 2011
447 Posts
July 23 2011 11:46 GMT
#2058
The "it's just the way it is" statement about community driven news content being journalism goes for everything related to it as well. Hopefully Alex realized that by now.
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
July 23 2011 11:48 GMT
#2059
This stuff is amazing!!!
<3 Moonbattles
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
July 23 2011 11:56 GMT
#2060
On July 23 2011 18:09 Dexx wrote:
Puma was legally bound to TSL. If not by a written contract then by an orally binding agreement or even by mere conduct. If you are a progamer, live in a progaming house, practise all day long, have TV appereances for your team, get free accomodation or even a small salary, you don't need to have a written contract in order to be bound.

A contract made by conduct is very difficult to be enforced in terms of certain obligations, because it is very difficult to prove that both parties have agreed on that special obligation the employer tries to enforce. But the basic contract is still there. I give an example: Coach Lee wants Puma to play for 11 hours each day, but Puma has only played fpr 10 hours. Coach Lee can enforce that when they have agreed on a right for Coach Lee to do so. But when you have only a contract by conduct, it is very difficult to prove such an greement in court.

All this has no effect on the basic contract that exists, because Puma has lived in the pro house and showed up for TSL in TV games. Nevertheless, EG can pick Puma up right now and Puma won't breach a contract. Coach Lee has released Puma or they have split up amicably and thus Puma has no contractual obligations to TSL anymore.

This is basically how German contract and labour law works. But I don't think that Korean contract and labour law is much different to it.

I definitely agree, but furthermore I don't think the fact that he didn't have a contract is relevant, partially because of this. Puma doesn't have a contract but he's clearly still part of TSL- TSL is on his player ID, he wears the uniform, plays for them in the teamleague, etc.

AG and I presume EG as a whole claim that because PuMa didn't have a contract, it was ok for them to approach him directly and then attempt to buy him out. AG claims that this is a perfectly "western" thing to do; that this happens all the time. If this is true, then I'm assuming that AG would have no theoretical problem with another team, say Fnatic, approaching IdrA without SirScoots (the equivalent of Coach Lee's position in this hypothetical) knowledge, giving him a business card and presumably a set of terms that would give him more money/tourney conditions, etc, and EG only finds out when IdrA calls up to tell them that he's leaving the team. In this case, I'm pretty sure anyone would be pissed. Is solely their fault? Not really, Puma could have (and should have) told his manager as well, but as a team looking for an aquisition I believe that EG should have let the TSL coach know at the beginning of his talks with Puma, and if not then certainly before any concrete decision is made.
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