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Oh god, Aevar.
What's chocking is that you're not even a troll, you're really you.
Oh, I should make this post on topic:
I do agree with the angry korean guys - mutalisks are still a bitch. They're game breaking on two maps, Scrap Station and Desert Oasis. As a protoss there are two ways to be successful: an early warp gate push or claiming air dominance. The later is very risky and usually a losing battle as zerg can tech switch soooo quickly.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On April 08 2010 18:05 Aevar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:01 Jenia6109 wrote:On April 08 2010 17:41 Aevar wrote:
WORST PATCH EVER
Holy shit, now terran cant DO EARLY RUSH protoss, without it Terran losses for sure.
This is because Blizzard only look at North American threads, in Korea zerg is the most
powerful race of all. Even in XPT league semi-finals it was 4zerg not once but 2 times total of 4 leagues.
I really dunno why north american players NOT abusing ZERG SO MUCH but rather shouted for
nerfing marauder so much.
With this patch 8, there is no way Terran could win against high-level zerg and protss.
Marauder was the ONLY HOPE for terran. Especially PVT, it is impossible to win protoss
if you dont do early damage to protoss with 1marader and 1scv bunker rush.
This is so ridiculous here in North America. You guys just dunno how imba the balance is right now. Here in Korea, where players are very high-leveld, its Z>>>>>P,P>>>>>>>>>>>T, Z>>>T.
I really dunno what shitty posts you guys were posting, but this is clearly a MISTAKE
facepalming palm... hmmm... WTF? U BRONZE or Copper something?
Platinum something
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Idk if it's zerg is weak so much as lack of unit diversity.
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@bendez
Shall we wait till you bring forward some proper arguments or shall we just ignore your insults?
btw a translator gave me this as translation "That South Korea's people." so I will leave it up to you what to think about that.
back2topic:
I personaly thinkg if Zerg is THAT strong in korea, the nerf is reasonable, isn't it?
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On April 08 2010 18:12 bendez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 18:02 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:59 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up. why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners. Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME" 저 한국사람이에요. Translation: I'm korean btw. In short, please shut the fuck up, and learn/play the race before you even theroycraft, because your suggestions are downright insulting to zerg player. You wanna know the difference between protoss and zerg? # of viable units to choose from. Why don't you shut the fuck up and think of a solution? All I've seen you do is insult other people and without any basis claim that there is no way for zerg to do anything. I will gladly shut up if only people like you would stop whining and simultaneously claiming that there is absolutely nothing that zerg can do other than mass and a-move units. try new strats, if they fail and zerg starts losing, you'll get your buff. ? This is the first time I'm posting on patch 8 thread. Where are all these crying that you speak of? I just dropped by, saw your suggestion, and found it insulting as a plat 8th zerg player, so I said few words. I'm trying to find solution, but again, your suggestions are downright insulting and you really need to shut the fuck up. Get it?
please enlighten me to how all my suggestions are complete bullshit? Obviously the infestors vs min line was 1/2 assed, but why is dropping banelings on a terran bio ball a insulting idea? you already have the overlords, a mostly marauder army comp is devoid of AA, and you can easily hit 5-6 of their units for 20 damage. for 50-25 per shot it seems like a good deal to me. since its doubtful any of your roaches will deal 100+ damage in the duration of their lives
Hell, why is baneling dropping a min line an "insulting" idea? drop tech doesnt cost more than templar tech, and 4 banelings dont cost as much as 2 templar, yet can inflict the exact same amount of damage.
Hint for next time: best way to get someone who you know is wrong to shut up is to prove them wrong, if you can that is. the absolute worst way is to insult them without any basis and think that will work. unless you're just trolling and want to start a flame war.
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On April 08 2010 18:19 GoDannY wrote:
@bendez
Shall we wait till you bring forward some proper arguments or shall we just ignore your insults?
btw a translator gave me this as translation "That South Korea's people." so I will leave it up to you what to think about that.
지랄한다.. 맘대로 생각해라. Wonder what babelfish will say about that one. I'll leave it up to you what to think about that.
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On April 08 2010 18:18 Jenia6109 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:05 Aevar wrote:On April 08 2010 18:01 Jenia6109 wrote:On April 08 2010 17:41 Aevar wrote:
WORST PATCH EVER
Holy shit, now terran cant DO EARLY RUSH protoss, without it Terran losses for sure.
This is because Blizzard only look at North American threads, in Korea zerg is the most
powerful race of all. Even in XPT league semi-finals it was 4zerg not once but 2 times total of 4 leagues.
I really dunno why north american players NOT abusing ZERG SO MUCH but rather shouted for
nerfing marauder so much.
With this patch 8, there is no way Terran could win against high-level zerg and protss.
Marauder was the ONLY HOPE for terran. Especially PVT, it is impossible to win protoss
if you dont do early damage to protoss with 1marader and 1scv bunker rush.
This is so ridiculous here in North America. You guys just dunno how imba the balance is right now. Here in Korea, where players are very high-leveld, its Z>>>>>P,P>>>>>>>>>>>T, Z>>>T.
I really dunno what shitty posts you guys were posting, but this is clearly a MISTAKE
facepalming palm... hmmm... WTF? U BRONZE or Copper something? Platinum something
prove it
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On April 08 2010 18:21 bendez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:19 GoDannY wrote:
@bendez
Shall we wait till you bring forward some proper arguments or shall we just ignore your insults?
btw a translator gave me this as translation "That South Korea's people." so I will leave it up to you what to think about that. 지랄한다.. 맘대로 생각해라. Wonder what babelfish will say about that one. I'll leave it up to you what to think about that.
뒤로 물러서 주제로 예의 바른 would be my (and babelfish's) final answer
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Korea (South)922 Posts
so many bad worker-icon comments...
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On April 08 2010 18:14 Gigaudas wrote:
Oh god, Aevar.
What's chocking is that you're not even a troll, you're really you.
Oh, I should make this post on topic:
I do agree with the angry korean guys - mutalisks are still a bitch. They're game breaking on two maps, Scrap Station and Desert Oasis. As a protoss there are two ways to be successful: an early warp gate push or claiming air dominance. The later is very risky and usually a losing battle as zerg can tech switch soooo quickly.
The first choice is what Korean high-leveled protosses are doing right now and it's all-in-rush.
However, it is usually not successful due to the sunken buff and larva pumping by queen
and when mutalisk comes out its gg. It is not my guess, its been proven in many Korea leagues.
The second choice is worse, there is no way phoenix will outnumber mutal with Queen's larva spwn
and even if they do, zerg just can simply switch to hydralisk, then phoenix is just waste of money.
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I laugh at people thinking korea is best in sc2. They thought terran marine/scv rush was ZOMG op for so long until they realized that wait, if they micro they can beat it. Meanwhile when people were trying it in america, it was being beaten regularly and easily.
So much racial bias here, people need to play random and really see what is possible with each race. Anybody saying zerg is still overpowered clearly has not played zerg. Sure, go ahead and be cute with baneling drops into the mineral line..that gas cost just means you got rtfo by the other army. Zerg cant fight any army straight up anymore, not even talking about 1a moving, even defending with a highground ramp is not possible vs MMM.
You could try being cute and burrowing your army to flank, but lets just remember that roaches are pitiful in terms of mobility even with the necessary upgrades.
I think i've won 1 game as zerg today post-patch, i'm gonna have to start choosing T or P soon because my ladder ranking just dies when i random zerg.
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On April 08 2010 18:20 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:12 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 18:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 18:02 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:59 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up. why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners. Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME" 저 한국사람이에요. Translation: I'm korean btw. In short, please shut the fuck up, and learn/play the race before you even theroycraft, because your suggestions are downright insulting to zerg player. You wanna know the difference between protoss and zerg? # of viable units to choose from. Why don't you shut the fuck up and think of a solution? All I've seen you do is insult other people and without any basis claim that there is no way for zerg to do anything. I will gladly shut up if only people like you would stop whining and simultaneously claiming that there is absolutely nothing that zerg can do other than mass and a-move units. try new strats, if they fail and zerg starts losing, you'll get your buff. ? This is the first time I'm posting on patch 8 thread. Where are all these crying that you speak of? I just dropped by, saw your suggestion, and found it insulting as a plat 8th zerg player, so I said few words. I'm trying to find solution, but again, your suggestions are downright insulting and you really need to shut the fuck up. Get it? please enlighten me to how all my suggestions are complete bullshit? Obviously the infestors vs min line was 1/2 assed, but why is dropping banelings on a terran bio ball a insulting idea? you already have the overlords, a mostly marauder army comp is devoid of AA, and you can easily hit 5-6 of their units for 20 damage. for 50-25 per shot it seems like a good deal to me. since its doubtful any of your roaches will deal 100+ damage in the duration of their lives Hell, why is baneling dropping a min line an "insulting" idea? drop tech doesnt cost more than templar tech, and 4 banelings dont cost as much as 2 templar, yet can inflict the exact same amount of damage. Hint for next time: best way to get someone who you know is wrong to shut up is to prove them wrong, if you can that is. the absolute worst way is to insult them without any basis and think that will work. unless you're just trolling and want to start a flame war.
Overlord upgrade is 200/200, actually 250/250 since speed is mandatory, and that amount of gas just for baneling drop isn't worth it, not to mention banelings themselves cost gas and are lost when used. If you try to use it in battle, it will die before it gets a chance to unload. By the overlord cargo upgrade is finished, it will be mid game, and they will have sizable MMM army, and take down overlord before it gets even close to them.
Now, will you consider what I said? You know the one I told you few times?
[edit]: It's not that I hate you chen ^_^ but you don't know zerg. You can theorycraft with your own race, the one you have experience and knowledge about. Please let zerg players figure this out ^_^, so shush.
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On April 08 2010 18:42 bendez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:20 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 18:12 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 18:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 18:02 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:59 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up. why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners. Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME" 저 한국사람이에요. Translation: I'm korean btw. In short, please shut the fuck up, and learn/play the race before you even theroycraft, because your suggestions are downright insulting to zerg player. You wanna know the difference between protoss and zerg? # of viable units to choose from. Why don't you shut the fuck up and think of a solution? All I've seen you do is insult other people and without any basis claim that there is no way for zerg to do anything. I will gladly shut up if only people like you would stop whining and simultaneously claiming that there is absolutely nothing that zerg can do other than mass and a-move units. try new strats, if they fail and zerg starts losing, you'll get your buff. ? This is the first time I'm posting on patch 8 thread. Where are all these crying that you speak of? I just dropped by, saw your suggestion, and found it insulting as a plat 8th zerg player, so I said few words. I'm trying to find solution, but again, your suggestions are downright insulting and you really need to shut the fuck up. Get it? please enlighten me to how all my suggestions are complete bullshit? Obviously the infestors vs min line was 1/2 assed, but why is dropping banelings on a terran bio ball a insulting idea? you already have the overlords, a mostly marauder army comp is devoid of AA, and you can easily hit 5-6 of their units for 20 damage. for 50-25 per shot it seems like a good deal to me. since its doubtful any of your roaches will deal 100+ damage in the duration of their lives Hell, why is baneling dropping a min line an "insulting" idea? drop tech doesnt cost more than templar tech, and 4 banelings dont cost as much as 2 templar, yet can inflict the exact same amount of damage. Hint for next time: best way to get someone who you know is wrong to shut up is to prove them wrong, if you can that is. the absolute worst way is to insult them without any basis and think that will work. unless you're just trolling and want to start a flame war. Overlord upgrade is 200/200, actually 250/250 since speed is mandatory, and that amount of gas just for baneling drop isn't worth it, not to mention banelings themselves cost gas and are lost when used. If you try to use it in battle, it will die before it gets a chance to unload. By the overlord cargo upgrade is finished, it will be mid game, and they will have sizable MMM army, and take down overlord before it gets even close to them. Now, will you consider what I said? You know the one I told you few times?
did you read what i wrote? compare teh cost of templar tech and drop tech. templar tech is much more expensive. 250/250(its generous since there is little reason not to get speed upgrade anyways)+200/100(4 blings) for an entire mining base of workers isnt a good deal to you? plus any drop after that is only 200/100, compared to 100/300 that toss have to use to storm drop. also (plus if they have marines, just fungal growth which leaves them at 20% of their HP after a stim)when i watch high-level players, ie LZ vs Idra, its primarily marauders, ie no/very few marines/AA. Also when you attack with roaches unless they focus your overlords they will go untouched, since their priority is lower. Im not suggesting you randomly float OL's over their army, I'm suggesting doing it in teh middle of a battle while they shoot at your army. they have to focus your OL's down instead of attacking your army, which in theory they could do, but why dont you give it a shot and see how it works instead of denying it out of hand?
using your logic templar in shuttles vs mech or zlot bombs during and attack in BW is pointless cause their gols would shoot your shuttle out of the sky before it could do anything. wonder how that turned out in actuality....
[edit]: its not that i hate you bendez, but when you and other zergs whine about a patch and claim there isnt anything you can do without trying, then blow off any suggestions as impractical without trying, i get kinda pissed. If you "zerg players" actually worked on finding solutions instead of just complaining and denying the possiblity, I would have nothing to say
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On April 08 2010 18:41 dogabutila wrote:
I laugh at people thinking korea is best in sc2. They thought terran marine/scv rush was ZOMG op for so long until they realized that wait, if they micro they can beat it. Meanwhile when people were trying it in america, it was being beaten regularly and easily.
Damn, so you're telling me my SCVs have 45hp and my Marines build 25% slower for no reason? How novel.
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Blizz trying to fix a problem that wasnt there, or rather was already solved before they fixed it. Seriously, NA players never had a problem with the cheesebuild, and asia found out before the fix that they could beat the build with control. It was nowhere near OP....
Although, my 2's partner and I did abuse reactor rushes that were pretty much unstoppable.
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Chen, while I agree that overall overlord drops can be good occasionally. I think its the banneling part you're over-estiming. They're really not that great against workers, 2 of them need to explode to kill a scv, or 1 with +1 attack upgrade for a drone.
Thing is the splash dosn't cover enough if the drones are mining and the expo is not over-saturated. What you lose on gaz (unbeliveably important for zerg) just isn't really worth it even if you execute a perfect drop, hence why nobody does it (except if he's one-basing and you really destroy most of his econ doing it).
Also, if the terran saw your overlord and suspect it, he can just move his drones, get some marines there and resume mining, so your whole drop only prevented him from minning 5-10 seconds.
Tbh I'd rather drop hydras, but then its just a basic drop similar of what the other races can do, and it costs more gaz, which as zerg we're really dying for.
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On April 08 2010 18:27 Aevar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:14 Gigaudas wrote:
Oh god, Aevar.
What's chocking is that you're not even a troll, you're really you.
Oh, I should make this post on topic:
I do agree with the angry korean guys - mutalisks are still a bitch. They're game breaking on two maps, Scrap Station and Desert Oasis. As a protoss there are two ways to be successful: an early warp gate push or claiming air dominance. The later is very risky and usually a losing battle as zerg can tech switch soooo quickly. The first choice is what Korean high-leveled protosses are doing right now and it's all-in-rush. However, it is usually not successful due to the sunken buff and larva pumping by queen and when mutalisk comes out its gg. It is not my guess, its been proven in many Korea leagues. The second choice is worse, there is no way phoenix will outnumber mutal with Queen's larva spwn and even if they do, zerg just can simply switch to hydralisk, then phoenix is just waste of money.
please show me replays how the zergs stop that all in!
because i am interested how the koreans zerg can stop this all in, since euro zergs seems not able to do so, if toss does not fuck up micro
i am 1600 platin (ranked second in my division) toss and didnt lost a single pvz since i switched 3days ago to protoss (was zerg before, got tiered of zvz, on europe its like 70% of games versus zerg)
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I've played about 30 games last night (pulled a patch-day-all-nighter I guess) and I really really like TvP now. It feels like SC1 where you can push soon with a few stalkers but T can get tank out soon enough to not have to go mass-marauders.
It's also easier to expand early as a protoss because T takes a more defensive early-game with siege-expand.
But cuz I've never palyed Toss in SC1, I really need to find out how to play against Tanks, but there are really many options, so I guess I'll find one that suits me soon. xD
Btw. VR's are sooo strong atm and another thing I've noticed - no Zerg used roaches against me, instead, the all 6-pooled or baneling-rushed. Really shows how so many ppl just play Z cuz their easy. But I f'd up my freakin plaxing matches (2gated and 6pooled by two noobs) and voilà - I was in BRONZE! WTF? Nearly Gold again though. But it's soo annoying when u loose to lamers in the placing matches, fight your way up from Bronze to Plat (which is sooo much harder then just getting lucky in the 5 matches and being placed there) and then your finally in platinum-league and BAAAM - ladder reset. ^^'
I was so looking forward playing against some of the better players, instead I can get annoyed by getting cheesed in the most disgusting ways every second game.
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On April 08 2010 19:20 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:27 Aevar wrote:On April 08 2010 18:14 Gigaudas wrote:
Oh god, Aevar.
What's chocking is that you're not even a troll, you're really you.
Oh, I should make this post on topic:
I do agree with the angry korean guys - mutalisks are still a bitch. They're game breaking on two maps, Scrap Station and Desert Oasis. As a protoss there are two ways to be successful: an early warp gate push or claiming air dominance. The later is very risky and usually a losing battle as zerg can tech switch soooo quickly. The first choice is what Korean high-leveled protosses are doing right now and it's all-in-rush. However, it is usually not successful due to the sunken buff and larva pumping by queen and when mutalisk comes out its gg. It is not my guess, its been proven in many Korea leagues. The second choice is worse, there is no way phoenix will outnumber mutal with Queen's larva spwn and even if they do, zerg just can simply switch to hydralisk, then phoenix is just waste of money. please show me replays how the zergs stop that all in! because i am interested how the koreans zerg can stop this all in, since euro zergs seems not able to do so, if toss does not fuck up micro i am 1600 platin (ranked second in my division) toss and didnt lost a single pvz since i switched 3days ago to protoss (was zerg before, got tiered of zvz, on europe its like 70% of games versus zerg)
I do not have a replay since I am not a protoss player, but I can give u a link for
starcraft2 league broadcasting if you dont mind hearing Koreans talking.
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On April 08 2010 19:35 Aevar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 19:20 Art_of_Kill wrote:On April 08 2010 18:27 Aevar wrote:On April 08 2010 18:14 Gigaudas wrote:
Oh god, Aevar.
What's chocking is that you're not even a troll, you're really you.
Oh, I should make this post on topic:
I do agree with the angry korean guys - mutalisks are still a bitch. They're game breaking on two maps, Scrap Station and Desert Oasis. As a protoss there are two ways to be successful: an early warp gate push or claiming air dominance. The later is very risky and usually a losing battle as zerg can tech switch soooo quickly. The first choice is what Korean high-leveled protosses are doing right now and it's all-in-rush. However, it is usually not successful due to the sunken buff and larva pumping by queen and when mutalisk comes out its gg. It is not my guess, its been proven in many Korea leagues. The second choice is worse, there is no way phoenix will outnumber mutal with Queen's larva spwn and even if they do, zerg just can simply switch to hydralisk, then phoenix is just waste of money. please show me replays how the zergs stop that all in! because i am interested how the koreans zerg can stop this all in, since euro zergs seems not able to do so, if toss does not fuck up micro i am 1600 platin (ranked second in my division) toss and didnt lost a single pvz since i switched 3days ago to protoss (was zerg before, got tiered of zvz, on europe its like 70% of games versus zerg) I do not have a replay since I am not a protoss player, but I can give u a link for starcraft2 league broadcasting if you dont mind hearing Koreans talking.
I like what most of the Chinese and also many of the Korean players do against Mutas, which is fast Warpgate pushes into expansion and as soon as mutas come out, you only build a few cannons and go for Mass-Stalkers with blink. It's really a very fast transition if you have 4+ warpgates up and you can go DT's/HT's later on by getting the council for the Blink.
With the new patch, I guess you can also go fast Stargate with a VR first to help hold off any roaches/lings or anything and to harrass queens, drones and overlords. once Mutas pop out, you can chronoboost a few Phoenix, which will help greatly by giving vision on cliffs and stuff for the Stalkers with Blink-Upgrade.
Atm, I'm a bit more concerned about 6-pools than Mutas. I really wish my Zerg-opponents would play in a way it would even get to a mid-game, insted, they all seems to rush and eihter insta-win, or insta-loose, depending on the Map and their Micro...
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