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WORST PATCH EVER
Holy shit, now terran cant DO EARLY RUSH against protoss and without it Terran losses for sure.
This is because Blizzard only look at North American threads, in Korea zerg is the most
powerful race of all.
Even in XPT league semi-finals it was 4zerg not once but 2 times total of 4 leagues.
I really dunno why north american players NOT abusing ZERG SO MUCH but rather shouted for
nerfing marauder so much.
With this patch 8, there is no way Terran could win against high-level zerg and protss.
Marauder was the ONLY HOPE for terran. Especially PVT, it is impossible to win protoss
if you dont do early damage to protoss with 1marader and 1scv bunker rush.
This is so ridiculous here in North America. You guys just dunno how imba the balance is right now. Here in Korea, where players are very high-leveld, its Z>>>>>P,P>>>>>>>>>>>T, Z>>>T.
I really dunno what shitty posts you guys were posting, but this is clearly a MISTAKE
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After playing some platinum games tonight, my thoughts are pretty easily summed up:
TvZ is a lot more fun/reasonable. This is what happens when almost every unit is useful depending on the opponent's strategy.
I would rather not play TvP at all. This is what happens when the viable units are few to begin with, and then they get worse yet are still the best option.
I'd also rather not play TvT, but this has less to do with anything that changed and more to do with the fact that games are turning into less strategic, even more map splitting versions of BW TvT. I also refuse to play the banshee/viking game, and since medivacs are crippled in the matchup, and thors are terrible against tanks, the only option is to give up mobility in exchange for a turtle-fest. Or end the game early.
I'm starting to wonder if I should just switch races. It's still early, and I'll probably have to play Protoss for my 2v2 team anyway. It's terribly lame to switch due to balance, but I'm simply not having fun with 2/3 matchups, and I haven't for weeks. I think one of the largest factors in this is just weak map presence. Watch nearly any TvX replay and look at the individual vision for each race - you'll notice that unless the Terran is quite far ahead, they have far less vision of the map than the Zerg or Protoss they're up against. In BW this was balanced by the fact that once you got a few scanners up, your vision was arguably much better than the other two races. Now the whole MULE thing really breaks that to pieces.
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I'm a happy Protoss player right now. This game seems to be finally moving in the right direction.
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On April 08 2010 17:14 NicolBolas wrote:It's funny how each and every suggestion you make would be immediately shut down with Turrets. For a scant 100 minerals, all of these options disappear.
now you either A) succeed in doing those above outlined things and cause massive damage, or B) cause them to build turrets lining their base outskirts/main buildings/min lines, giving you and econ advantage since he wasted money on those turrets. that and a turret doesnt stop most of the things i listed. drops arn't stopped by 1 turret, and instead of burrow-moving units into their min-lines just drop them there. Toss can storm drop, why cant you baneling drop? and how does terran stop overlords from dropping banelings on their marauder blob in the middle of their army? hm? adding marines means less marauders and if they can shoot the OL, the OL can drop the banelings onto the army.
seriously its not that hard to either find a way to make it work, or make them spend money to counter you, giving you an edge that way.
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On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work.
Hi Chen,
Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options.
In short, please shut the fuck up.
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Things that Blizzard needs to patch right now are
nerf Queen's larva spawn
nerf Mutalisk
nerf Immortal
nerf Sunken
buff Ultralisk
buff Stalker or Pheonix so that they can defend the base from mutalisk
buff Factory units all of them including Thor, Tanks, Hellions
buff battlecruiser
buff mothership
buff high templars.
These are the things that they need to do, NOT NERFING MARAUDER
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On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up.
Hi bendez,
Please stop being a giant douchecanoe toolbag. Every post you make is dripping with zerg bias
You cant win without actually putting in some effort anymore? Cry me a river, everyone other then zerg players acknowledged that zerg was the easiest race to play pre-patch. Quite frankly, I find your stupidity and bias...insulting? Nah, more like amusing.
In short, get the fuck out and stop posting.
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On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up.
why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners.
Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME"
Instead of making such a stupid blanket statement, why not
A) show me how any/all of my suggestions can't work or are completely inefficient
B) Think about what i said and either try it, and/or use your superior knowledge of your own race to improve upon those suggestions
C) Best yet, THINK of a new strat by yourself and apply it.
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On April 08 2010 17:52 Aevar wrote:
Things that Blizzard needs to patch right now are
nerf Queen's larva spawn
nerf Mutalisk
nerf Immortal
nerf Sunken
buff Ultralisk
buff Stalker or Pheonix so that they can defend the base from mutalisk
buff Factory units all of them including Thor, Tanks, Hellions
buff battlecruiser
buff mothership
buff high templars.
These are the things that they need to do, NOT NERFING MARAUDER
loloolol, you have no clue on how to balance.
You want a mutalist nerf (for the purpose it's hard for toss) and then you want the counter to be even better with the nerf?
You're a funny guy 
--
I find it bloody amazing that even within 24 hours of a patch there is this much screaming. I just cant understand it. Play the FRIGGING game first for a week, then come back here.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On April 08 2010 17:41 Aevar wrote:
WORST PATCH EVER
Holy shit, now terran cant DO EARLY RUSH protoss, without it Terran losses for sure.
This is because Blizzard only look at North American threads, in Korea zerg is the most
powerful race of all. Even in XPT league semi-finals it was 4zerg not once but 2 times total of 4 leagues.
I really dunno why north american players NOT abusing ZERG SO MUCH but rather shouted for
nerfing marauder so much.
With this patch 8, there is no way Terran could win against high-level zerg and protss.
Marauder was the ONLY HOPE for terran. Especially PVT, it is impossible to win protoss
if you dont do early damage to protoss with 1marader and 1scv bunker rush.
This is so ridiculous here in North America. You guys just dunno how imba the balance is right now. Here in Korea, where players are very high-leveld, its Z>>>>>P,P>>>>>>>>>>>T, Z>>>T.
I really dunno what shitty posts you guys were posting, but this is clearly a MISTAKE
facepalming palm...
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On April 08 2010 17:59 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up. why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners. Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME"
저 한국사람이에요. Translation: I'm korean btw.
In short, please shut the fuck up, and learn/play the race before you even theroycraft, because your suggestions are downright insulting to zerg player. You wanna know the difference between protoss and zerg? # of viable units to choose from.
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On April 08 2010 18:00 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 17:52 Aevar wrote:
Things that Blizzard needs to patch right now are
nerf Queen's larva spawn
nerf Mutalisk
nerf Immortal
nerf Sunken
buff Ultralisk
buff Stalker or Pheonix so that they can defend the base from mutalisk
buff Factory units all of them including Thor, Tanks, Hellions
buff battlecruiser
buff mothership
buff high templars.
These are the things that they need to do, NOT NERFING MARAUDER loloolol, you have no clue on how to balance. You want a mutalist nerf (for the purpose it's hard for toss) and then you want the counter to be even better with the nerf? You're a funny guy -- I find it bloody amazing that even within 24 hours of a patch there is this much screaming. I just cant understand it. Play the FRIGGING game first for a week, then come back here.
wanna play i can rape you with zerg right now, I'll show u how imba zerg is
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On April 08 2010 18:01 Jenia6109 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 17:41 Aevar wrote:
WORST PATCH EVER
Holy shit, now terran cant DO EARLY RUSH protoss, without it Terran losses for sure.
This is because Blizzard only look at North American threads, in Korea zerg is the most
powerful race of all. Even in XPT league semi-finals it was 4zerg not once but 2 times total of 4 leagues.
I really dunno why north american players NOT abusing ZERG SO MUCH but rather shouted for
nerfing marauder so much.
With this patch 8, there is no way Terran could win against high-level zerg and protss.
Marauder was the ONLY HOPE for terran. Especially PVT, it is impossible to win protoss
if you dont do early damage to protoss with 1marader and 1scv bunker rush.
This is so ridiculous here in North America. You guys just dunno how imba the balance is right now. Here in Korea, where players are very high-leveld, its Z>>>>>P,P>>>>>>>>>>>T, Z>>>T.
I really dunno what shitty posts you guys were posting, but this is clearly a MISTAKE
facepalming palm...
hmmm...
WTF?
U BRONZE or Copper something?
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wow 46 pages already? or am i really late to this thread -_-
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On April 08 2010 17:41 Aevar wrote:
WORST PATCH EVER
Holy shit, now terran cant DO EARLY RUSH protoss, without it Terran losses for sure.
This is because Blizzard only look at North American threads, in Korea zerg is the most
powerful race of all. Even in XPT league semi-finals it was 4zerg not once but 2 times total of 4 leagues.
I really dunno why north american players NOT abusing ZERG SO MUCH but rather shouted for
nerfing marauder so much.
With this patch 8, there is no way Terran could win against high-level zerg and protss.
Marauder was the ONLY HOPE for terran. Especially PVT, it is impossible to win protoss
if you dont do early damage to protoss with 1marader and 1scv bunker rush.
This is so ridiculous here in North America. You guys just dunno how imba the balance is right now. Here in Korea, where players are very high-leveld, its Z>>>>>P,P>>>>>>>>>>>T, Z>>>T.
I really dunno what shitty posts you guys were posting, but this is clearly a MISTAKE
pretty much yes. chinese and korean zergs.. u better watch out for them.
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On April 08 2010 18:02 bendez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 17:59 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up. why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners. Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME" 저 한국사람이에요. Translation: I'm korean btw. In short, please shut the fuck up, and learn/play the race before you even theroycraft, because your suggestions are downright insulting to zerg player. You wanna know the difference between protoss and zerg? # of viable units to choose from.
Why don't you shut the fuck up and think of a solution? All I've seen you do is insult me and without any basis claim that there is no way for zerg to do anything. I will gladly shut up if only people like you would stop whining and simultaneously claiming that there is absolutely nothing that zerg can do other than mass and a-move units. try new strats, if they fail and zerg starts losing, you'll get your buff. even if you have fewer units to choose from, that doesnt mean there is only 1 viable strat
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it's true what the guys here say - for some reason north americans think zerg is weak but zerg has been the strongest for a while now.
beatable yes, but they have been too strong for a while now.
and FYI, the marauder change was not "OMG WE ALL DIE NOW!!"
you can still play pvt/tvz exactly the same with marauders you just do not get free kills when someone retreats anymore, and no more freewins from fast 8-10 rax fast marauders that zealots could not counter. I am pretty sure there was a lot of that going on.
they are still the same damn unit rofl.
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On April 08 2010 18:08 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:02 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:59 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 17:51 bendez wrote:On April 08 2010 17:08 Chen wrote:On April 08 2010 16:57 Radiomouse wrote:On April 08 2010 16:23 GoDannY wrote:
THIS (including the quotations) +1
Seriously, Protoss got nerfed all day and now all Zergs are crying since there beloved a-move-macro style didn't work out that easy anymore.
Honestly - I have never ever seen a Zerg dropping me, doing harass (except muta-ling but thats another topic) and RARELY flanking me. It seems like most zerg tend to just group all their units on one hotkey and a-move in. OF COURSE the whole protoss army is build up to do the most damage on a frontal attack (meatwall of zeals, long ranged collossi in the back), same for metal-terran (hellions, tank and thors in the back). So what about using a little micro and map control to fight in a spot where you can flank, throw an arc around the opposing army and do some drop harass (speedlings are insane in a probeline)? I'm talking about the average ladder game - not the ones we sometimes see on streams. I'm glad they fixed the issue that a decent macro zerg simply can overrun and survive a frontal attack.
Besides, how about using the burrow ability as suggested? This is a HUGE advantage but rarely used by Zerg - so seriously - try to start discovering the abilities of your race... there are lots of options still unused.
With that patch, we've come one HUGE step closer to overall balance IMHO. Not to be rude, but how do you envision zerg harassing with a unit that is not muta/ling? Also, zerg drops are horrible, you spend 200/200 for limited space in an overlord even though you could spend 300/200 for unlimited space in a nydus worm. Flanking would work, were it not for proper sentry forcefield spam.
How is burrow usefull against toss again? All proper protoss actually get an observer out before they start massing them immortals/colloxon. if you read my original post, i suggested using them vs terran not toss, since ravens are much higher tech/rarer than obs. But you just proved your lack of thought by presenting a situation in which burrow-move would be helpful. Burrowed roaches are not stopped by force-field, thus use burrow to flank their army, utilizing that huge regeneration bonus to shrug off damage while you get into position. try that rather than having your units stuck behind the FF wall and just complaining while 1/2 your army can a-move and the other 1/2 cant. On April 08 2010 16:40 Wintermute wrote:On April 08 2010 16:27 avilo wrote:
this thread makes me lol in delight at whiney Zerg players that are frustrated they can no longer play CnC3: Tiberium Wars Scorpion Spam Starcraft 2 the way they were. Yea, those idiots should have been using their skillful Sentry/Stalker equivalents... that they don't have. Zerg don't have the tools for finesse. Even their caster unit is largely a delivery system for fungal growth, whose primary purpose is to make their over run tactics easier. thoughts on what zerg could be doing instead of A-moving: drops: you have overlords, you basically get free speed upgrade so all you need is the drop upgrade, why not utilize that advantage vs a slower ball-oriented army? nothing's changed from BW to SC2 to make this less effective. People seem to forget that overlords are transports with the advent of the nydus worm. seriously just learn to abuse your mobility advantage, use a nydus on his third base with no units to draw his army there then drop his main. Baneling-bomb the army: marauders cant attack air and terrans generally have few marines, either way your overlords can easily drop banelings onto 5-6 units in their blob for 20-35 damage at relatively little cost. might not work against toss tho. Baneling the depots/pylons, 5 banelings kill 4 depots or pylons. 250-125 for 400 minerals and major supply blockage Baneling the mineral line, most terrans/toss dont have any AA at base unless you open mutas, drop 2-4 banelings in their nat and kill all the workers Using roaches to harass: burrow-move into their base and kill off key structures/workers, you should be able to find a hole in the cannon/turrets, assuming they even build them, plus obs wont stay at base and ravens are high up the tech tree. Hell just leave a roach in his base and you have your very own observer that you always whine about for 75/25 instead of 50/100 Fungal growth workers: poor mans storm drop, takes 2 casts to kill, but also stops them from mining at a base for the duration and if you have the 150 energy needed its unlikely he'll be able to get back in time to save the workers. Plus you might not even lose the infestor, just burrow-move it away for pick it up and run with overlord. Corrupt key tech buildings: i'm pretty sure 2 corrupters can keep a building non-functional indefinitely, there are obvious repercussions to significantly delaying your opponent from getting collosi/+1 atk/ravens/HSM/whatever you dont want him to get. in order to stop it they have to stay in their base or invest significantly in defense (killing a 200 hp air unit before it can cast something is pretty hard, even killing it before it casts/runs takes alot of investment) I dont play zerg and can think of 1/2 a dozen of "finesse" techniques that can do alot of damage/help you with without massing and A-moving. your turn to think instead of whining and claiming its not possible/wont work. Hi Chen, Please play and learn about the current state of zerg before you even theorycraft. I find your theorycraft almost insulting, because it clearly shows that you know nothing about zerg and act like we got tons of options. In short, please shut the fuck up. why dont you shut the fuck up and start thinking of things to do instead of crying to the rest of us? Obviously these arn't going to be the optimal strats that redefine the race, but have any of you zergs even TRIED to do anything? how about you look at the korean player who claims that zerg is massively imbalanced in Korea relative to the other races? maybe you should figure out what the koreans are doing that you arn't since its basic consensus that koreans are better at SC that foreigners. Seriously why do zergs feel the need to say "NO NOTHING WORKS STFU"? toss gets nerfed 7 times in a row, they try new things in order to find something else that works. Zerg gets one major nerf "OMFG OUR RACE IS BROKEN THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO NOW FUCK BLIZZARD YOU JUST RUINED THE GAME" 저 한국사람이에요. Translation: I'm korean btw. In short, please shut the fuck up, and learn/play the race before you even theroycraft, because your suggestions are downright insulting to zerg player. You wanna know the difference between protoss and zerg? # of viable units to choose from. Why don't you shut the fuck up and think of a solution? All I've seen you do is insult other people and without any basis claim that there is no way for zerg to do anything. I will gladly shut up if only people like you would stop whining and simultaneously claiming that there is absolutely nothing that zerg can do other than mass and a-move units. try new strats, if they fail and zerg starts losing, you'll get your buff.
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This is the first time I'm posting on patch 8 thread. Where are all these crying that you speak of?
I just dropped by, saw your suggestion, and found it insulting as a plat 8th zerg player, so I said few words.
I'm trying to find solution, but again, your suggestions are downright insulting and you really need to shut the fuck up.
Get it?
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On April 08 2010 18:03 Aevar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:00 Kyuki wrote:On April 08 2010 17:52 Aevar wrote:
Things that Blizzard needs to patch right now are
nerf Queen's larva spawn
nerf Mutalisk
nerf Immortal
nerf Sunken
buff Ultralisk
buff Stalker or Pheonix so that they can defend the base from mutalisk
buff Factory units all of them including Thor, Tanks, Hellions
buff battlecruiser
buff mothership
buff high templars.
These are the things that they need to do, NOT NERFING MARAUDER loloolol, you have no clue on how to balance. You want a mutalist nerf (for the purpose it's hard for toss) and then you want the counter to be even better with the nerf? You're a funny guy -- I find it bloody amazing that even within 24 hours of a patch there is this much screaming. I just cant understand it. Play the FRIGGING game first for a week, then come back here. wanna play i can rape you with zerg right now, I'll show u how imba zerg is
You keep making these incredibly strong arguments. And you sound cool to boot!
haha
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To everyone who's bitching here, replays or gtfo.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/4071/136612-facepalm8bu0ph9_super.jpg)
