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On April 08 2010 11:31 Hansel wrote:
Did this vs a terran some minutes ago, he got ghosts emping and sniping my infestors after i controlled his first 3 thors. I scouted his base with overlord and thought oh nice more thors for my mindcontroll but got my ass handed to me on a silver plate.
That is a sick idea. Why didn't I think of that. 
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Just went fast expo into 2 fact thor in tvz on platinum level, pushed when I was almost maxed out with a thor/reaper/marine army, and completely raped his mass hydra ultra. A single strikecannon immobilizes and kills an ultra, so it's pretty imba, and I think only infestors with control or mass broodlords can counter them. Another game earlier, I went thor marauder marine, he went mass muta, and was dominated by rines and thor splash damage. The build time decrease is HUGE.
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Tried going mech vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and stalkers/zelots and ass raped my mech army easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's. However my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone. Basicly im forced to go pure BIO or i can sneak in a couple mech units, that will only make my army worse then if i had spend that money on more marauders/marines/ghosts.
Immortals needs to take more dmg from attacks then 10 or do less dmg. If build time on tanks and thors was 10 sec , immortals would still rape them.
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I think Bio, or at least marauder are still staple for TvP. TvZ however is proving to be rather nice for Mech.
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On April 08 2010 11:54 Pekkz wrote:
Tried going thor vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and alot of zelots and ass raped the thors easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's however my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone.
Maybe you should try using the thor's skill. I hear that does good damage vs immortals.
I think this new patch will take a while for me to get used to, but so far I've used banelings more than I used to, so it can't be all bad. Army diversity is always fun.
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I honestly think the answer to ZvT right now is infestors.
I just tested out a 15 pool, 16 expand into fast lair, normally timed warren, and fast infestation pit.
You can have two infestors out with fungal ready at 8:50 (probably faster if you wanted faster second gas, but you might not need it).
I looked at a replay of me losing against very aggressive one base terran and he gets to my base at about 9:15-9:20. I could've easily taken that game if I went infestors, but instead I did mass roach with some hydras thrown in and lost a 84 food to 73 food fight with creep underneath me and a flank. Infestors I think can solve everyone's problems. I really see it being used aggressively too. I need to play more games to verify this, but right now I think blizzard did a good job of making infestors a more core part of zerg gameplay (as was their intent), much like defilers were.
edit: Platinum btw
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On April 08 2010 11:58 OreoBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 11:54 Pekkz wrote:
Tried going thor vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and alot of zelots and ass raped the thors easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's however my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone. Maybe you should try using the thor's skill. I hear that does good damage vs immortals. I think this new patch will take a while for me to get used to, but so far I've used banelings more than I used to, so it can't be all bad. Army diversity is always fun.
When i do that it does more harm then good. Its only good when there is ONLY immortals left. If you have things infront of immortals, the delay in cannons are such a pain in the ass, and will prolly make them die before they get to finish their attack.
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Wow I'm really surprised/impressed that blizzard made some of the needed (imo) changes to roach/marauder. I'm really bummed about the -10 hp hydra nerf and the lack of changes to infestors. The terran mech buffs look sw8 though.
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On April 08 2010 08:15 btlyger wrote:
Zerg player, was 11-1 before patch. Now im 12-9. enough said.
Soooooo you're saying the patch worked by actually balancing the races?
I'm sure that's what you meant because expecting to maintain an absurd win rate surely isn't healthy for the game unless you're really Flash in disguise.
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On April 08 2010 12:09 Pekkz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 11:58 OreoBoi wrote:On April 08 2010 11:54 Pekkz wrote:
Tried going thor vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and alot of zelots and ass raped the thors easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's however my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone. Maybe you should try using the thor's skill. I hear that does good damage vs immortals. I think this new patch will take a while for me to get used to, but so far I've used banelings more than I used to, so it can't be all bad. Army diversity is always fun. When i do that it does more harm then good. Its only good when there is ONLY immortals left. If you have things infront of immortals, the delay in cannons are such a pain in the ass, and will prolly make them die before they get to finish their attack.
Do you not have any other units? You can't expect thors alone to do everything.
Get some marines, they cost no gas and do good against immortals.
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well you shouldn't be going mech while skipping ghosts in TvP. You NEED ghosts with mech, just for EMP'ing the immortals. Immortals without shields are sitting ducks for thor/tank. +2 attack thor 2-shots an immortal with no shields.
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On April 08 2010 12:17 OreoBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 12:09 Pekkz wrote:On April 08 2010 11:58 OreoBoi wrote:On April 08 2010 11:54 Pekkz wrote:
Tried going thor vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and alot of zelots and ass raped the thors easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's however my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone. Maybe you should try using the thor's skill. I hear that does good damage vs immortals. I think this new patch will take a while for me to get used to, but so far I've used banelings more than I used to, so it can't be all bad. Army diversity is always fun. When i do that it does more harm then good. Its only good when there is ONLY immortals left. If you have things infront of immortals, the delay in cannons are such a pain in the ass, and will prolly make them die before they get to finish their attack. Do you not have any other units? You can't expect thors alone to do everything. Get some marines, they cost no gas and do good against immortals.
My whole point was that mech doesnt work no matter how much you decrease build times on factory units. Ofc marines do good vs immortals, but that is another discussion.
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On April 08 2010 12:23 Pekkz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 12:17 OreoBoi wrote:On April 08 2010 12:09 Pekkz wrote:On April 08 2010 11:58 OreoBoi wrote:On April 08 2010 11:54 Pekkz wrote:
Tried going thor vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and alot of zelots and ass raped the thors easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's however my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone. Maybe you should try using the thor's skill. I hear that does good damage vs immortals. I think this new patch will take a while for me to get used to, but so far I've used banelings more than I used to, so it can't be all bad. Army diversity is always fun. When i do that it does more harm then good. Its only good when there is ONLY immortals left. If you have things infront of immortals, the delay in cannons are such a pain in the ass, and will prolly make them die before they get to finish their attack. Do you not have any other units? You can't expect thors alone to do everything. Get some marines, they cost no gas and do good against immortals. My whole point was that mech doesnt work no matter how much you decrease build times on factory units. Ofc marines do good vs immortals, but that is another discussion.
Sure it does. It worked before the patch, but not well because you were forced to turtle too much earlygame. This patch does improve the timing on tank/thor builds slightly which is good.
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I see that the void ray was a buff but what is up with blizzard making really strong but weak defense units for protoss?
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immortal push is going to be retarded strong now
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On April 08 2010 12:21 BlasiuS wrote:
well you shouldn't be going mech while skipping ghosts in TvP. You NEED ghosts with mech, just for EMP'ing the immortals. Immortals without shields are sitting ducks for thor/tank. +2 attack thor 2-shots an immortal with no shields.
Yes cus gass is no problem for terrans. If you gonna get ghosts along with your mech army, you can forget upgrades, and no raven for dt detect.
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the -1 armor on void ray confuses me a lot too, I don't really see it as a needed change.
However, I'm finding out that this patch really made things annoying for us zerg players. I've already said how annoying it is that they just cut 10 health off the already easy to kill hydralisk, but it's pretty ridiculous how much the mech buffs combined with roach nerfs has impacted game play.
It seems the only real way for me to win is to constantly harass the terran first with zerglings/banelings and then muta harassing and just starving them until they gg. Against a bad terran one of these harasses may just end the game, but most of the time they can handle it and just get thors/tanks/vikings with marauders to back them up. I really don't see what zerg can do vs. this, and it really surprises me that they made our only option (roach/hydra) get nerfed so hard.
Zerg is really lacking in diversity, and this latest patch made one of 2 options very weak.
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On April 08 2010 12:26 Floophead_III wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 12:23 Pekkz wrote:On April 08 2010 12:17 OreoBoi wrote:On April 08 2010 12:09 Pekkz wrote:On April 08 2010 11:58 OreoBoi wrote:On April 08 2010 11:54 Pekkz wrote:
Tried going thor vs a protoss now, he went for DT rush. He lost about 4-5 dt's that killed nothing, but forcing me to stay at my base for awhile until I could get a raven ( empty on scan energy). When i finally got a raven and was gonna push out, he had a few immortals and alot of zelots and ass raped the thors easy. I prolly should have gotten ghosts aswell, but its not possible when you have to get raven for the DT's, theres just not enough gass.
Would polly have been easy win for me if i had gone bio or banshee instead because of the huge lead i had when i lost nothing and killed around 5 DT's however my point is, mech is completely fucked over by immortals , and that doesnt change with less BUILD TIME on units. Immortal needs a change, cause this unit counter what ever the fuck comes out of factory alone. Maybe you should try using the thor's skill. I hear that does good damage vs immortals. I think this new patch will take a while for me to get used to, but so far I've used banelings more than I used to, so it can't be all bad. Army diversity is always fun. When i do that it does more harm then good. Its only good when there is ONLY immortals left. If you have things infront of immortals, the delay in cannons are such a pain in the ass, and will prolly make them die before they get to finish their attack. Do you not have any other units? You can't expect thors alone to do everything. Get some marines, they cost no gas and do good against immortals. My whole point was that mech doesnt work no matter how much you decrease build times on factory units. Ofc marines do good vs immortals, but that is another discussion. Sure it does. It worked before the patch, but not well because you were forced to turtle too much earlygame. This patch does improve the timing on tank/thor builds slightly which is good.
Faster build time is never gonna help with how insainly hardcounter immortal is to mech. You wont have enough gass to pump them out faster anyways.
Stimmed marauders is still gonna be preffered unit against protoss, nothing will change other then nerf to very early marauder pushes.
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EPT
