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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:59 Ideas wrote:I feel like the roach/immortal/marauder are all extremely boring units that are all almost only there to counter each other. They ARE the hard counter system that no one likes. Exactlyyyy EDIT: fuck double post ;c meant to edit my first one with this haha. sorry. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:00 pzea469 wrote: i think i get what OP is saying. Roaches SHOULD be OP by looking at their stats. However, they are not because Protoss and Terran have direct counters to it. But due to designing counter units around a unit that SHOULD be OP we get these other problems of those units being too effective such as Immortal not allowing terran to go mech and marauders just owning. Very interesting read Yup. /cookie ^_^ | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:57 mOnion wrote: yeh this sums up what OP was trying to say a little more concisely. you cant just blame the roach. although saying immortal is boring is a bit much. you dont spam them the way mara/roach are spammed. your main army composition is much more free, whether you want more blink, more charge, or more forcefield. Yeah, immortals are definitely the less 'boring' of the three, since its cost forces it into a less dominant role in the Protoss army, compared to the other 2 which will often form the backbone of their respective armies. I think SC2 would be a more enjoyable game to watch and play if somehow Blizzard could move roaches and marauders into more of a supporting role for T1 or T2 units. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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frankcrest
Canada90 Posts
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:04 frankcrest wrote: so i still dont get Op,,,roaches are good but they have counters,, so just make counters so they dont build roaches?. That's exactly what makes the game boring though. Having a system of hard counters in rock-paper-scissors fashion makes it really bland and dull to play and watch. | ||
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bendez
Canada283 Posts
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:57 See.Blue wrote: Come on dude stop (intentionally?) dumbing down the discourse. The OP raises an interesting and valid point. The roach is literally the least exciting unit in existence. hey >_< dont be mean i was trying to get to the point of the OP. not dumbing down the discourse. also what you have there is blatant opinion. i think marines are the most boring unit. sup? | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:04 frankcrest wrote: so i still dont get Op,,,roaches are good but they have counters,, so just make counters so they dont build roaches?. Except no unit truly counters mass roaches. Even against an army heavily comprised of immortals/marauders, often the best answer is MORE roaches. | ||
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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
As in, the only way to Counter Roach as Terran is literally Marauder, and as for Protoss it is only Immortal, because the sheer macro-ability and cheap cost and 1 supply of the Roach just dominates everything else. At least you can counter mass Marauders with Tanks/Marines, Zealots w/ Charge, HT, Immortal, Collo, etc. You can counter mass Immortal with Zerglings, Hydra, & Marine, Ghost, etc. The Roach is just ridiculous. It destroys Tanks due to not only burrow, but because of cheap cost and spammability + 145 HP, and 5! Armor when 3/3. Roaches also with speed upgrade move very fast. If Zerg didn't have the Queen, or the Queen was toned down, Roaches wouldn't be as much a problem as they currently are, even though they would still be the most powerful out of the bunch. Try beating mass Roach as Terran by making something other than Marauders.... | ||
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Ideas
United States8167 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:05 mOnion wrote: hey >_< dont be mean i was trying to get to the point of the OP. not dumbing down the discourse. also what you have there is blatant opinion. i think marines are the most boring unit. sup? at least marines have stim roaches are basically hydras from SC1 but you dont have to micro them vs storm (too slow and it's not as big a deal) or reaver shots. | ||
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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:05 Jyvblamo wrote: Except no unit truly counters mass roaches. Even against an army heavily comprised of immortals/marauders, often the best answer is MORE roaches. This in many ways. I watched the HayPro v HasuObs match the other day where he did nothing, but mass Roaches and it completely obliterated the Protoss who went heavy Immortal. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:04 frankcrest wrote: so i still dont get Op,,,roaches are good but they have counters,, so just make counters so they dont build roaches?. The idea is that Roaches base stats are completely inordinate with what you'd expect for their cost and tech tree position. In order to balance that, it gets counters which are equally inordinate, like immortal DPS and Marauder survivability. The result is a sort of "arms race" among these units, immortals and marauders both making the game drastically more stale. This is because each unit is individually way too strong. (thought not OP) The reason why their so strong IS the roach. The roach needs to be reworked/removed, only then will the game be balanced. As it stands, for instance, a maraunder nerf would break the ability of terran to fight zerg as an example, the same applying to the immortal. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
yeh but theyre human. ew. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:10 floor exercise wrote: I wouldn't mind at all if I loaded up sc2 to find all 3 units gone Protoss would kind of rape everyone. =P | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
Yeah. And its interesting because Protoss have the most diverse armies atm. The immortals powerful, it breaks terran mech play, but it isn't nearly as bad as the other two. | ||
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fulmetljaket
482 Posts
but why dont a few of you get together and play all the different MU's WITHOUT BUILDING roach/mara/immo ?? | ||
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ZergZergling
United States29 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:59 Ideas wrote: I was about to write something about these 3 units (roach/marauder/immortal) lol I like this thread a lot. I feel like the roach/immortal/marauder are all extremely boring units that are all almost only there to counter each other. They ARE the hard counter system that no one likes. I think they should be reworked or removed from the game to make it better. I seriously wouldnt miss them (in their current state) at all. I agree completely with this. SC2 would be much more fun if roach/immortal/marauder were switched to be late game units or were just removed from the game. | ||
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