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Active: 9423 users

The Roach is whats wrong with SC2. - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Liquid`Sheth
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States2095 Posts
April 07 2010 21:05 GMT
#541
I miss my roach hydra armies of doom already...
Team LiquidUnderneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
April 07 2010 21:05 GMT
#542
us server just went down
thanks blizz for not giving much warning and ruining a nice game yet again
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Chen
Profile Joined June 2009
United States6344 Posts
April 07 2010 21:07 GMT
#543
On April 07 2010 23:57 [ADT]-FaZiNaTe-[GeR] wrote:
Another great idea..... regeneration back to Patch 4 or 5.

And instead of 145 health 110 or so.... would be much much better.

Since much roaches ownz every unit in late game... 3-3 upgrades

and 1 supply is a bit wierd.. i guess oO

And i cannot understand the Immortal whiners.... own problem to play only roaches vs mass immortals oO and look at the prize.

Immortals 250/100 and 4 supply

Roaches 75/25 and 1 supply


= 4 roaches 300/100 and 4 supply

i think 4 beat the 1 immortal

if not the immortal is just a good counter for them... and zergs need other units oO

+1. I always see zergs go pure roach vs a mixed toss army with like 5-6 immortals in it then scream omg immortal op this is imba when they lose >.>
hopefully this patch will do some good for all the mu's
IaniAniaN
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada555 Posts
April 07 2010 21:33 GMT
#544
I hope the roach nerf makes Z play more diverse, so that they can actually see what's missing. Zerg don't really need more units so much as they need more unique units. In BW realistically you had lings, mutas, lurkers and (sometimes) hydras as the backbones of your army. The good thing about all of those units is that the very way they attack and are used is completely different. In SC2 hydras and roaches act exactly the same, large oversight.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
April 07 2010 21:43 GMT
#545
On April 08 2010 01:46 lolaloc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2010 23:31 Musoeun wrote:
Oh, highlights the problem nicely. The problem is they tried to give it two roles:

-> Attack unit
-> (Durable) scout

These don't work together: any unit that can do both should be either expensive (like, the cost of an m&m group, which does both) or is just OP.

Now, a durable scout is something the Zerg really doesn't have, and so that really makes sense to add. But to keep a balance, it has to have a weaker/slower attack so that it can't also be an attacking unit you suddenly can't kill. Nerf the roach's attack, maybe up the unit speed, and fiddle with the cost, and you have a unique useful unit (and don't have to waste OLs). Voila, problem solved.

I haven't seen zerg use the scouting capabilities of roach yet. Basically, you have to research tunneling claws first. A burrowed roach in key places can be like an observer because it can still move around.


Of course not: currently, it's built for attack. Potentially losing a roach scouting when it's a valuable attacking unit as well is kind of silly.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
suejak
Profile Joined March 2010
Japan545 Posts
April 07 2010 21:58 GMT
#546
On April 08 2010 06:05 Zelniq wrote:
us server just went down
thanks blizz for not giving much warning and ruining a nice game yet again

LOL, what a douchebag.
Are you human?
Smurfz
Profile Joined May 2008
United States327 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-07 22:25:28
April 07 2010 22:21 GMT
#547
Alright, just brainstorming here, but I have a rough idea. It might be too big of a change to present to the game, but I guess I'll present it nonetheless.

Roaches need to be damage sponges. They also need a reason to attack them before other units. The problem is, if you fulfill that reason by giving them a lot of ground DPS, they become very powerful ground units, and require specific units like the Immortal and Marauder to beat.

Basically, Roach needs a mechanic that supports the rest of the zerg army instead of a mechanic that only helps itself..

-Remove Organic Carapace and the current passive Roach ability.
-Nerf Roach attack to whatever extent is balanced
-Add a T2 upgrade called "Nutricide Sacs" (or something...)
-Basically, whenever an enemy BIOLOGICAL unit dies that the Roach has recently attacked or has killed, it bursts open and spills a small patch of green "Nutrient Creep" on the ground that lasts for 8 seconds in the location of the dying biological unit.
-Nutrient Creep heals all zerg units (friendly or enemy) on it, and gives the 30% speed bonus.
-Maybe EMP could disable the effects of Nutrient Creep if casted on it.

Why it might work well for the Roach
-It's an ability that promotes combining Roaches with Zerglings, and Ultralisks. Roaches would still serve as units to put in front of Hydralisks as well to meatshield them.
-It would make Roach ambushes powerful with Burrow+Move. Unburrow on a MM ball and pop a few different marines, and you gain the instant advantage.
-Creates interesting fast-paced small-scale territorial play.
-Roach already sprays green "creepish" stuff.
-Unique and fun.
suejak
Profile Joined March 2010
Japan545 Posts
April 08 2010 00:32 GMT
#548
I think roaches' "special mechanic" should just be to make focusing other units hard to do -- i.e., cool micro swarming that is hard to get around.

They should be a sort of wall in front of your hydras, etc, I think.
Are you human?
verrater
Profile Joined April 2010
United States11 Posts
April 08 2010 21:15 GMT
#549
I think they should increase roach mineral cost to something like 125 (or whatever) and supply to 2, give them back good regen above ground and lower damage or attack speed or just change them to a void ray type of ramp up attack.

makes them more unique and won't be as effective in big masses.

Immortals should do less basic damage or his bonus damage shouldn't work against buildings.
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
April 08 2010 23:52 GMT
#550
Great thread. Imo roach needs to just be weaker in HP. This will make it way more micro dependent, hittable by psi storm and hence less boring all around. Something like 75 hp. Then just adjust Immortals/rauders accordingly.

What made SC1 great was that picking a "counter" unit gave you a 10% advantage, not a 200% advantage. I've had equal resource/supply armies face each other in SC2 and if I picked the right units, I will come out of the fight losing 0 and he will lose his entire army. Game was a complete blowout when it should have been a fun great game. This seems to be 85% of my games sadly.

Another thing that would help the hard counters a lot would be making it easier to scout past the 3 minute mark without devoting so many resources. I find between 3-10 minutes I'm pretty blind, game turns into coin toss of who built the right units
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
April 09 2010 00:10 GMT
#551
On April 08 2010 06:05 Zelniq wrote:
us server just went down
thanks blizz for not giving much warning and ruining a nice game yet again

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
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