EPTOn March 31 2010 22:11 Mikami_ wrote:
I blame orb for patch 7
I blame orb for patch 7
Then why isn't Forcefield nerfed too?
Patch 7 Notes - Page 30
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
Then why isn't Forcefield nerfed too? | ||
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Dx Fx
Russian Federation85 Posts
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iounas
409 Posts
On March 31 2010 22:11 Mikami_ wrote: I blame orb for patch 7 no, blame him for sentry nerf in patch 8 | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On March 31 2010 22:20 Dx Fx wrote: cuz they need something to nerf at protoss in the next patch, a patch without protoss nerf wouldn't be acceptable from blizzards point. Dont worry they are saving some nerfs for later.. I can guarantee that immortal nerf is coming and another collosus nerf to balance it out with nerfed templars so people dont go robo every time.. | ||
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GoDannY
Germany442 Posts
On March 31 2010 21:47 LunarC wrote: Seriously, Blizzard nerfs one of the few elements of Starcraft 2 that make army control a necessary skill. I don't know if anyone's thought this, but isn't Protoss warp-in such a terrible feature? I mean, look at what the Gateway units have had to go through simply because they can be produced so much faster and at any location with pylon power: Zealot: 60/100 -> 50/100 Stalker: Still fragile as glass. Dark Templar: Tech is delayed, more expensive. High Templar: Psionic Storm nerfed to 80 dmg in 1.5 radius. It's been nerf after nerf and all the power is going to the Robotics Facility because Warpgates are so damn good at pumping out units. One solution would be to increase Warpgate cooldown to 45 seconds. The exchange would be warp-in speed for troop mobility. Maybe Gateway units can stand to be a bit stronger with a longer Warpgate cooldown in place. There's a lack of balance in design I'm noticing in Starcraft 2. Near unlimited unit selection should be balanced with units and abilities that either require skilled army control or force the opponent to skillfully control his army. Yet, most units move virtually the same, units now have counters rather than general effectiveness, and abilities are either impossible to dodge (EMP) or are made easier to dodge (Psionic Storm). Even these abilities are a shadow of their former selves, reducing the need for army control even further. I think Blizzard has to allow micro to sometimes determine the balance rather than flat statistics and numbers. The first step is to incorporate elements into the game that either allow for more micro or make micro more necessary. 1. Include a method of control that keeps units in formation (like the magic box: a selection box size threshold) or simply have armies move relatively in formation in all instances. 2. Buff Area-Of-Effect abilities and make them dodge-able. 3. More units that rely on good control to be effective. This can be achieved by nerfing hard counters or making them more conditional. Example: Immortal 150/100. Shield regeneration at 7 per second after not receiving damage for 8 seconds. Move speed is slightly faster than Marines' and Zerglings' off creep. I think that are good thoughts, what do you think? Would you mind post that in the suggestions-board of blizzard as well.... On March 31 2010 22:29 iounas wrote: Dont worry they are saving some nerfs for later.. I can guarantee that immortal nerf is coming and another collosus nerf to balance it out with nerfed templars so people dont go robo every time.. Well that would be the point of all Protoss switching to Zerg including me, right? | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On March 31 2010 21:47 LunarC wrote: Seriously, Blizzard nerfs one of the few elements of Starcraft 2 that make army control a necessary skill. I don't know if anyone's thought this, but isn't Protoss warp-in such a terrible feature? I mean, look at what the Gateway units have had to go through simply because they can be produced so much faster and at any location with pylon power: Zealot: 60/100 -> 50/100 Stalker: Still fragile as glass. Dark Templar: Tech is delayed, more expensive. High Templar: Psionic Storm nerfed to 80 dmg in 1.5 radius. It's been nerf after nerf and all the power is going to the Robotics Facility because Warpgates are so damn good at pumping out units. One solution would be to increase Warpgate cooldown to 45 seconds. The exchange would be warp-in speed for troop mobility. Maybe Gateway units can stand to be a bit stronger with a longer Warpgate cooldown in place. There's a lack of balance in design I'm noticing in Starcraft 2. Near unlimited unit selection should be balanced with units and abilities that either require skilled army control or force the opponent to skillfully control his army. Yet, most units move virtually the same, units now have counters rather than general effectiveness, and abilities are either impossible to dodge (EMP) or are made easier to dodge (Psionic Storm). Even these abilities are a shadow of their former selves, reducing the need for army control even further. I think Blizzard has to allow micro to sometimes determine the balance rather than flat statistics and numbers. The first step is to incorporate elements into the game that either allow for more micro or make micro more necessary. 1. Include a method of control that keeps units in formation (like the magic box: a selection box size threshold) or simply have armies move relatively in formation in all instances. 2. Buff Area-Of-Effect abilities and make them dodge-able. 3. More units that rely on good control to be effective. This can be achieved by nerfing hard counters or making them more conditional. Example: Immortal 150/100. Shield regeneration at 7 per second after not receiving damage for 8 seconds. Move speed is slightly faster than Marines' and Zerglings' off creep. Yeah I agree. I think small units should not clump together so tight.. Increase space between them.. even a little.. They need to experiment with that so storm can be used for things other than clumped t1 units like in sc1 where they had many uses and its such a cool ability.. Right now if you want to hit bigger units you will hit only 1 of them until they move away from that small radius. And fast units can easily escape that small area without much damage.. ![[image loading]](http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm55/zanderfever/Screenshot000.jpg) | ||
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goszar
Belarus119 Posts
Terran is the cheesiest race, all about unfair play. That's exactly why they are almost always buffed. Looks like Blizzard is trying extremes in this beta, which I like. Push every limit to see how bad Storm should be for players to stop using it; how good Marauder can be until players cry imbalance at all skill levels. But what is sad that mediocre player like me cannot play Protoss unless he wants to lose every time. | ||
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
On March 31 2010 23:07 goszar wrote: Protoss is the most fun, intelligent and diverse race. That's exactly why they are nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. Terran is the cheesiest race, all about unfair play. That's exactly why they are almost always buffed. Looks like Blizzard is trying extremes in this beta, which I like. Push every limit to see how bad Storm should be for players to stop using it; how good Marauder can be until players cry imbalance at all skill levels. But what is sad that mediocre player like me cannot play Protoss unless he wants to lose every time. You come off as a Protoss player who recently got beat by a Terran that you thought you should have won because you were more skilled or something like that. All races have their cheese tactics, I am sure Blizzard purposely made Protoss the most fun, exciting, skilled and cool dude race just so they can nerf it and piss you off. | ||
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goszar
Belarus119 Posts
Completely wrong. I play Zerg because I just can't play Protoss on same level and don't enjoy playing Terran. And I admit that i'm quite bad (top 8 Gold at best). I have started preparing to SC2 in 2007 and decided to play Protoss in the future, so I practiced this race in SC:BW. Protoss in SC2 looked brilliant in the videos. Then the beta arrived, and I started playing Protoss. But after massive nerfs to Gateways, Chronoboost, etc I started losing a lot. I have switched to Zerg and reached top 8 of Gold league very fast. I have played a lot of games as Terran as well, and my winrate is about the same as with Zerg, even though I don't like the race and play just bad. But I don't need to be good - just do SVC+Marine rush, Reaper Rush, Hellion drop, Banshee rush, Marauder Push, Stimpack Push or just turtle on 2 bases going BCs. All of this works in Gold even if performed by a bad player, ESPECIALLY against Protoss. And that feels almost as a personal insult. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On March 31 2010 22:40 iounas wrote: Wow, is that the area of Storm now? That's bad. That's really bad. Somehow I have a feeling that Blizzard themselves fell for the 25% radius reduction = 25% area, when it's really ~43%. That's really, really bad. I feel embarrassed for Blizzard since that's the best solution their TEAM of developers decided upon. I've rarely seen such a display of lack of creativity out of Blizzard - ever. They could have just spread the damage out over 5 seconds instead of 4. Or just something that doesn't all but negate the usefulness of only 1 Templar. With it now, your opponent will laugh at you if you have only 1 Templar. Multiple can still be somewhat effective, but is it worth it? Maybe the problem was Warping them into any Pylon in 3 seconds and having them start out with 75 energy. Fix that instead, Blizzard. Not every caster has to have the +25 energy upgrade. Give Psi Storm back to it's 2.0 radius, and simply find a different upgrade instead of +25 energy. That's the problem - they're spawning virtually anywhere and attacking instantly. I am simply astounded at how somethings go over the heads of a team of developers so easily. This is why people post pictures of face palms. Things like this. | ||
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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
This was really needed for a bit of balance. EMP otherwise would rape the P too mutch | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
But that might go against Blizzard's fetish of the number 25. Every spell is a multiple of 25, every mineral and gas cost is a multiple of 25. It's things like this that make me say Blizzard lacks some creativity in balancing. This paragraph is a bit off topic, but imagine if Blizzard tweaked gas and mineral costs by 5-15 instead of 25? Tank a little too expensive? Make it 150/115. Hydra too good? Make it 110/50. It could be any number really, but the fetish for 25 is hurting balance, I think. It forces changes to attack damage, speed, HP, when instead just a little resource change is needed (as in 25 is too drastic). Expand your minds Blizzard - leave your fetishes behind. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
On a good day, it looks like youd be lucky to hit 4, especially since armies are constantly on the move and most units are bigger than a templar. It is just for people to be mildly disturbed by this. | ||
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Gnaix
United States438 Posts
On March 31 2010 23:07 goszar wrote: Protoss is the most fun, intelligent and diverse race. That's exactly why they are nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. Terran is the cheesiest race, all about unfair play. That's exactly why they are almost always buffed. Looks like Blizzard is trying extremes in this beta, which I like. Push every limit to see how bad Storm should be for players to stop using it; how good Marauder can be until players cry imbalance at all skill levels. But what is sad that mediocre player like me cannot play Protoss unless he wants to lose every time. Tell me stargate rushing to void ray isn't cheese and you can call Protoss the most intelligent race. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On April 01 2010 00:58 MorroW wrote: blizzard want their rts games to be easy to learn. if a unit costs 30 mineral or 55 etc its hard to remember everything. thats why they stick with multiple's of 25. u dont really need to change that to balance the game, they can just change other stuff instead Maybe, but at least for the energy level of a spell I don't see why it can't be tweaked. Blizzard has decided that Feedback at 25 (the same as Snipe) would be too much. Fine, whatever. Then try something in between! As an upgrade, of course. Again, because I don't think every caster has to have the +25 starting energy upgrade. | ||
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barthos
United States30 Posts
On March 31 2010 08:35 Archerofaiur wrote: Blizzard wants to make the player base more proportional with the lore. They will continue to nerf Protoss until only a couple hundred survivers huddle in some dark corner of BNET muttering to themselves about artifacts of salvation. puhahaha. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
On March 31 2010 03:50 zazen wrote: Nice to see static defense buffed, I still think there's absolutely no need to buff the hands down best harass unit in the game (Banshee). T has SO MUCH HARASS power already... Z got nerfed very hard this patch. The turret and thor buff will render Muta harass useless, and the 2 best Z units got nerfed too in late game. Roach upgrade is now laughable. This is just terrible for the race as a whole. good thing zerg macro mechanic is absolutely amazing for fast production switches. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10991 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Since Chrono Boost was nerfed (and by a greater amount: 1/3 instead of 1/4 as I'm proposing for Queen) I don't see a problem with this. | ||
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