Read the post above you, that doesn't actually work either. Any and all hold-positioned zealot walls can be glitched through as of right now with enough speedlings.

danl9rm

United States3111 Posts

March 11 2010 01:28 GMT

#42

you can definitely block a choke vs zerglings with hold position roaches. you didn't have them close enough, and the first picture shows that.

KhaosKreator

Canada145 Posts

March 11 2010 01:52 GMT

#43

I tested this with a perfect wall Roach wall. Each one as close as possible to each other, like how the pro's in SC1 do it with Zerglings. With Hold Position.

You don't need to spam right click, Zerglings will automatically path through the roaches with one right click.

Without speed, only a handful of lings seep through over time. With speed researched, Zerglings pretty much unit walk through the wall like it's not even there. God help you if you have creep on your ramp.

Seems like a bug to me. The poster above me if demonstratively wrong.

Tef

Sweden443 Posts

March 13 2010 13:47 GMT

#44

The reason why this happens is because the collision between allied units are soft, ie. they can push each other around. So in extreme cases this push can overpower the block effect of enemy units. This can be adressed if you prioritize enemy unit collision over allied unit collision. However, if you do that it will lead to a somehwat more stale movement of the units when two groups collide with each other, much like it was in SC1. Units can be trapped more easily for instance. A slight increase of the collision radius can probably solve the current zergling issue, but it won't solve the core issue. Broodlings have even less of a radius I would guess but is not as critical.

Edit: I don't know how the pathing radius works in SC2, but an increase of that could be a solution. Then zerglings wont even try to go past since the path is inaccessible no matter how many times you click.

Qiin

Australia102 Posts

March 13 2010 15:32 GMT

#45

Hmm, i know for a fact that my lings have been blocked with zealots a lot and it hasn't bugged before. I wonder if there is something that zerg player was doing in particular.

z]Benny

Romania253 Posts

March 13 2010 17:14 GMT

#46

On March 11 2010 10:23 CharlieMurphy wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you place your gates in such a way to leave a small space between them , or wall them together to leave a small wall on the edge of the cliff then you can wall with 1 zeal or whatever.

This is true. And not hard to do. You only keep 1 zeal between gates or whatever and they can't go through 1 zeal, can't push just the one away.

LF9

United States537 Posts

March 13 2010 17:28 GMT

#47

I am pretty sure that the game won't allow you to block your own units with more of your units. I think if you move any unit of your own past a wall of your units, they just allow them to slide through. This is what I noticed, at least.

On March 13 2010 22:47 Tef wrote:
The reason why this happens is because the collision between allied units are soft, ie. they can push each other around.

Pretty much. I would guess this is the cause of the OP's inability to block his own lings with his Roaches.

FarbrorAbavna

Sweden4856 Posts

March 13 2010 19:14 GMT

#48

Quick tip to those who don't know it but hold position makes it so that units don't plow through other units when trying to get somewhere. Units going somewhere simply go around the other units that are on hold position.

Khalleb

Canada1909 Posts

March 13 2010 20:18 GMT

#49

On March 14 2010 04:14 FarbrorAbavna wrote:
Quick tip to those who don't know it but hold position makes it so that units don't plow through other units when trying to get somewhere. Units going somewhere simply go around the other units that are on hold position.

only work with ally unit not opponent unit

Bosu

United States3247 Posts

March 13 2010 20:20 GMT

#50

I kinda like that zerglings can squeeze by things. I think it adds to the game.

Gedrah

465 Posts

March 13 2010 21:40 GMT

#51

Units on HP never budge so much as an inch, in my experience, even to get out of the way of allied units or building placements. Are the Lings just fitting between the Roaches magically despite that their collision joins up?

Start a game in sandbox mode with a friend and post some replays, I bet this will get fixed. Ramps and chokes are meant to be blockable with a few units to allow you to push a defensive advantage.

sob3k

United States7572 Posts

March 13 2010 22:10 GMT

#52

On March 14 2010 06:40 Gedrah wrote:
Units on HP never budge so much as an inch, in my experience, even to get out of the way of allied units or building placements. Are the Lings just fitting between the Roaches magically despite that their collision joins up?

Start a game in sandbox mode with a friend and post some replays, I bet this will get fixed. Ramps and chokes are meant to be blockable with a few units to allow you to push a defensive advantage.

yeas, the roaches dont more but the lings squeeze through

Zelniq

United States7166 Posts

March 13 2010 22:24 GMT

#53

i'd just like to reiterate to make people aware, it's not just speedlings, other units ive noticed can squeeze through any unit wall (that's hold positioned), it's just harder to get them through

semantics

10040 Posts

March 13 2010 22:28 GMT

#54

On March 14 2010 05:20 Bosu wrote:
I kinda like that zerglings can squeeze by things. I think it adds to the game.

All i can think is it's a shame i cant make them jump over terran buildings blocking it lol.

Comeh

United States18919 Posts

March 13 2010 23:40 GMT

#55

On March 14 2010 07:24 Zelniq wrote:
i'd just like to reiterate to make people aware, it's not just speedlings, other units ive noticed can squeeze through any unit wall (that's hold positioned), it's just harder to get them through

Honestly, I feel like the community should be making a bigger deal of this and unit clumping as a whole.
Things like overpowered roaches or what have you are simple to balance (well, changing the stats). But things that imply that the engine is BROKEN worries me greatly. If we can't block our own ramp, the limitations for strategies (particularly any sort of turtling/quick tech enabled by zealot walls) will be great.
:\

Gedrah

465 Posts

March 13 2010 23:47 GMT

#56

I checked out some replays, you're right. Whereas a unit holding position will not move out of the way when any units want to push past him, and a unit will never move out of the way when a hostile unit wants to push past him, it seems that if one unit pushes another unit into a unit that's holding position, the HP unit will move out of the second (battering ram) unit's way.

Sid(TB)

United States314 Posts

March 13 2010 23:47 GMT

#57

since you'd like a replay and i happent o have posted one in another thread about this issue

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ytmyywjfjdi/2010-03-12 12-33-48.SC2Replay

heres a replay of using zealots to stop zerglings (impossible)

the zerg here just spams right click past the wall of units no matter the unit formation

maybe other formations can be tried but heres a good example of the testing ive done.

Exteray

United States1094 Posts

March 14 2010 00:07 GMT

#58

Did you win?

Sid(TB)

United States314 Posts

March 14 2010 00:22 GMT

#59

the replay shows testing, it was a custom game, has nothing to do with winning, unless you count it was impossible to prevent entry into my base so i lost? to his spam right click?

regardless it was only a test game, ment to show example of what this thread is talking about to those who dont have a beta or those who havnt experienced it.

semantics

10040 Posts

March 14 2010 00:36 GMT

#60

Anyone else notice that the AI reacts differently from a building block to a unit block

when a building blocks the ramp units don't usually go up the ramp if you just right clicked into base, while a block with units doesn't ususally result in that.

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