EPT[PICS] Zerglings Unblockable with Roaches? - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
| ||
mrmin123
Korea (South)2971 Posts
| ||
|
Fusionz
United States54 Posts
| ||
|
emikochan
United Kingdom232 Posts
In wc3 you can get some nice blocks on units that are running away if you can micro your units infront of the runners, but with the tiny collision and superior pathing of sc2, they don't slow down at all.. *shrug* edit: thanks for the post Fusionz, glad to see they are working on it  | ||
|
wrags
United States379 Posts
i know the "quarry" is with collision size, but there was a massively better transition than just blocking and trying to tech. also sim city would have helped your spire from dying. honestly i don't see how this is much different than zvz in bw, aside from the fact that it takes little to zero micro to break a ramp i realize it's easy for me to say all this but the problem isn't with blocking so much, your decisions need to be adapted. it's like all of these p users trying to forge expand and then complaining that "they" should make it more viable | ||
|
SoLaR[i.C]
United States2969 Posts
Blizzard undoubtedly wanted to make SC2 better than its predecessor by creating more well defined boundaries within the game. Units have infinitely better AI and are limited in what they can and cannot do. Positions are optimized, and units are spread according to their size so you no longer have them stacking together like some sort of freakish pile of flying cards. In this case, the well defined small size of zerglings is creating a weird glitch that opposes/overcomes the well defined unit spacing of our poster. What if, in the process of trying to tweak these hard boundaries (in this case unit collision & pathing), other anomalous things start to occur in a chain reaction as a result of creating "exceptions" in their algorithm? Is this simply something that can be changed by making zerglings "bigger?" Are we going to start seeing SC2 revert back to Broodwar after these boundaries and rules are blended together? I'm definitely over-thinking this. | ||
|
ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
| ||
|
Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On March 11 2010 07:22 ProoM wrote: I honestly hope they increase the colision of ALL units, it's pretty ridiculous now in that aspect :S. True that would fix a lot of problems. Like the ridiculous over-clumping of everything. | ||
|
niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
I had fun testing out different building placements, making mazes and blocks against lings and zealots. That whole aspect of game is gone. And now this? On March 11 2010 07:25 Klive5ive wrote: True that would fix a lot of problems. Like the ridiculous over-clumping of everything. I agree too. | ||
|
spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Blizzard wanted units to move more fluently, so units make themselves "thinner" if a friendly unit wants to pass. They also move out of the way but that alone wouldn't make it very smooth. This thing somehow seems to apply to enemy units as well, even though it probably wasn't intended. The gap that opens as a concequence is large enough for a zergling to squeeze through (zerglings probably also reduce their collision size slightly while moving). I am just assuming this, it's hard to verify without knowing the code. In any case I think it shouldn't be too hard to fix - or it might be extremely hard to fix now that I think about it. If the zerglings have a smaller collision size while moving, and their size returns to normal once they stop, they will push the roaches away for that bit. Those roaches will trigger the other roaches to make room because they "want" to move. This opens those gaps. Well, now I went pretty far from such a vague assumption If I am close to the real implementation, Blizzard has to make sure that enemy units can't push your units around. They probably won't let go of the "making room for friendly units" part of the AI because that's so fancy and modern (I don't like it very much, it's quite hard to form a proper arc because you keep pushing your own units around, and sometimes it still is useful to have an arc). | ||
|
Adeeler
United Kingdom764 Posts
I think only massive units should be able to push other units i.e. ultralisk, tank & collosus. | ||
|
Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
Zerglings, like all units, push their friends out of the way so that they can get to their goal position. If you tell them to attack past a line of enemies, the first lings will try to squeeze into the gaps between the opposing force's units. The next line of lings will try to do the same and will push those lings just slightly. With larger units this may not have an effect, because the units simply can't squeeze into those tiny gaps in the first place, but with lings they get pushed through. This is of course an educated guess, but I think a good way to test it would be to take different numbers of lings from 1 up to... a lot, and you just try to break through walls with them. I wish I could test it myself, but I'm away from my desktop computer and can't run sc2 on my laptop with any degree of playability. | ||
|
McCain
United States187 Posts
On March 11 2010 06:30 Klockan3 wrote: No, zerglings got such a huge nerf in sc2 from sc1, their uber pathing is the only thing going for them. What happened is that they attack almost half as fast as before so zerglings really aren't scary at all now. Before 1 zergling gave ~the same dps as a zealot, now a zealot deals twice the dps of a ling, if everything else stayed the same zerglings would be 100% useless. I think Lings could use a buff, but making them unblockable isn't the way to do it. | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
Nvm, misread the OP. | ||
|
-orb-
United States5770 Posts
| ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 11 2010 07:25 Klive5ive wrote: True that would fix a lot of problems. Like the ridiculous over-clumping of everything. Seriously. This. This simple change would make big battle so much easier to watch. Throw in a slight modification to coloring and all of the "oh my god wtf is going on?!?" moments will go by the way of a pvp tech build. | ||
|
Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
| ||
|
QibingZero
2611 Posts
BTW, props to the guy saying this isn't a problem because you deserved to lose the game anyway. That kind of posting seems to be par for the course here lately... | ||
|
geno
United States1404 Posts
By the way, its not just a zergling thing, I've pulled it off with zealots as well. Its easier to do the more units you have and the smaller (thinner I should say) the wall. Doesn't just apply to ramps, also works against 1-matrix wide chokes. The only way right now to 100% block a choke of this type with units I've found is to put a unit wider than the choke in front or behind it and hold-position. So for instance, if you make a 1-matrix wide choke using buildings and put an archon in front or behind, no matter how much they clump up zerglings won't be able to make it through with just spamming move commands. Obviously this is not particularly helpful though. They really just need to fix hold-position walls altogether. In the meantime, you are best off just making your wall as thick as possible to prevent this kind of stuff. For instance, putting a gateway next to a wall so you get a 3x1 matrix corridor and filling that with zealots will make it hard to break. The zerglings can eventually make it through all the zealots, but they have to do it one at a time (they only seem to jump through units when you have at least 2 to 3 clumping on top of eachother). Also, be careful if the zerg gets ling speed because that seems to make it like 20x easier to pull off to the point where zerglings can pretty much walk right through a 1-zealot thick wall. | ||
|
CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On March 11 2010 09:46 -orb- wrote: Yes this is a problem that's been really pissing me off too. It makes early speedling builds annoyingly hard to hold off as protoss because it's literally impossible to block your ramp with zealots against them. If you place your gates in such a way to leave a small space between them , or wall them together to leave a small wall on the edge of the cliff then you can wall with 1 zeal or whatever. | ||
| ||
