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So I was inebriated lastnight and happened to stumble across the idea of zerg buildings burrowing underground lol
I had a dream where I ran into a zerg main and quickly cleaned up the lings/roaches with marines yet where there was creep the was no buildings, so I called in a scan on my area and the whole area was pockmarked with holes/abrasions.
I started running my marines away but the whole base emerged and zerg units appeared everywhere sealing my fate
anyways, I think it would be viable since zerg is lacking some things, it seems kind of like a bare ability but its entirely defensive, also toss can cloak their base :s
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United States7166 Posts
heh if the creep would seep underground as well, it would bring new meaning to the term 'hidden expansions'
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That would be a powerful hidden expansion lol. Would definately need to be some time restraints on either the burrowing of creep/buildings or the unborrowing part heh.
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omg terran and protoss needs detection to even take out an unguarded expansion
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How about an option to rush building mutation (maybe costing extra resources), but its maximum HP is significantly lower (permanently)? This would probably be at lair tech so there's time for it to take effect, but early rushes aren't too strong.
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On January 19 2010 07:24 Letters_and_Numbers wrote: How about an option to rush building mutation (maybe costing extra resources), but its maximum HP is significantly lower (permanently)? This would probably be at lair tech so there's time for it to take effect, but early rushes aren't too strong.
On January 19 2010 07:19 Saturnize wrote: No.
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I suggested a while ago to give the roach the devourer's old attack. Might have to tweak some stats for balance, but I always thought that acid spores combined with zerglings would be kickass.
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I once though of an overcomplicated scheme for zergs supply management. There would be virtually no supply limit but you have to have overlords within like two or three screens away from your units for you to be able to control them, so it would be a pylon -- protoss building relationship but with overlord -- zerg units. If theres no overlord nearby, you can still see them and they will still be performing whatever last action you told them to do (patrol, burrow, hold position, move somewhere, attack, etc.) with waypoints up to a limit but it wouldn't take any new commands after it's gone.
Overlords would be way more important and scarce so they should cost more each and have more hp, base speed etc. High-level units like the queen or ultralisks wouldnt need to be overlord-controlled, because they can emit psy waves themselves or w/e (don't know the exact lore terms)
This makes more sense to me story-wise rather than making a bunch of overlords and sticking them in some corner but at the same time it's just another gimmick.
Perhaps there could also be a counter gimmick that enables protoss or terran to take mass control of your uncontrolled units once theres no overlords close by or when they've been killed (a Psy emitter of sorts). It would encourage killing the now-very-buff overlords, but at the same time the terran/protoss is wasting dps on an otherwise useless unit, when you could have been killing combat units instead and just dying (sort of like going mass wraiths or corsairs today, you risk dying to a mass hydra push)
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Nice wu tang signature Yurebis. =o
Sorry for off-topic.
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On January 19 2010 06:48 ExPresident wrote: That would be a powerful hidden expansion lol. Would definately need to be some time restraints on either the burrowing of creep/buildings or the unborrowing part heh.
You need to reasearch building burrow (named something else of course), and the building would burrow in about 5 seconds, but the creep would take like 10 seconds longer to go away.
Burrow the whole expansion, your enemy has no clue your mining it when their army is rolling over
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On January 19 2010 09:18 larjarse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 06:48 ExPresident wrote: That would be a powerful hidden expansion lol. Would definately need to be some time restraints on either the burrowing of creep/buildings or the unborrowing part heh. You need to reasearch building burrow (named something else of course), and the building would burrow in about 5 seconds, but the creep would take like 10 seconds longer to go away. Burrow the whole expansion, your enemy has no clue your mining it when their army is rolling over
I wonder if this is possible with the map editor
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Well I'd say it would be a good idea... Burrowed Buildings should be like Flying Terran ones, ie they can't "Do" anything ie no research, Burrowed Hatcheries/Lairs/Hives should continue to produce Creep (since Creep tumors can do that), but stop producing Larva, and be unable to collect minerals.
It should probably require a Lair to research and not be available to the defensive buildings ie 'Crawlers' or to Geysers.
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On January 19 2010 08:59 Yurebis wrote: I once though of an overcomplicated scheme for zergs supply management. There would be virtually no supply limit but you have to have overlords within like two or three screens away from your units for you to be able to control them, so it would be a pylon -- protoss building relationship but with overlord -- zerg units. If theres no overlord nearby, you can still see them and they will still be performing whatever last action you told them to do (patrol, burrow, hold position, move somewhere, attack, etc.) with waypoints up to a limit but it wouldn't take any new commands after it's gone.
Overlords would be way more important and scarce so they should cost more each and have more hp, base speed etc. High-level units like the queen or ultralisks wouldnt need to be overlord-controlled, because they can emit psy waves themselves or w/e (don't know the exact lore terms)
This makes more sense to me story-wise rather than making a bunch of overlords and sticking them in some corner but at the same time it's just another gimmick.
Perhaps there could also be a counter gimmick that enables protoss or terran to take mass control of your uncontrolled units once theres no overlords close by or when they've been killed (a Psy emitter of sorts). It would encourage killing the now-very-buff overlords, but at the same time the terran/protoss is wasting dps on an otherwise useless unit, when you could have been killing combat units instead and just dying (sort of like going mass wraiths or corsairs today, you risk dying to a mass hydra push)
Sounds like the way the Tyranids work in WH40k
On the burrowing buildings: it's an interesting mechanic. I think it would be neat if instead of the buildings instantly burrowing into the ground it took them something like 5-10 seconds to dig themselves a safe spot under the earth. Could envision a lot of tense moments where the Zerg Hive is about to die and it barely makes it into the ground with 10 HP left.
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Canada5565 Posts
It sounds cool but I think we all know how imbalanced it would be. On top of the ability itself, Terran scans are going to be even scarcer.
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On January 19 2010 07:49 Sentient66 wrote: I suggested a while ago to give the roach the devourer's old attack. Might have to tweak some stats for balance, but I always thought that acid spores combined with zerglings would be kickass.
I like this idea a lot, would be a really interesting tier 2 unit.
Not too in to the burrowing buildings idea for all buildings. Maybe the infestor building could be permanatly burrowed though... How about if you research burrow and burrow a drone you can start a building and it would be hidden until 50% completion? Would make expanding a little safer (maybe not a good thing).
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Or, it could just be a specific building's mechanic to be able to burrow. Like a way to hide a certain tech, you have to upgrade that building to be able to burrow, then burrow it, and it still grants you the tech. For instance, the Lurker tech building. The building will have its upgrades, and one of them will be to make the building itself burrow. So there could be a proxy lurker tech, out away from your base you use an Overlord to drop some creep, build the lurker den and upgrade burrow, the creep goes away, and you have some hidden lurker tech. (the reason you proxy it is so it doesn't get scanned just like normal to detect it.)
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On January 19 2010 09:15 Corrupt wrote: Nice wu tang signature Yurebis. =o
Sorry for off-topic. lol < 3 the wu tang clan.
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It might be overpowered. A zerg could really abuse that and it would be terribly hard to deal with as P or T unless detection was way more readily available.
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On January 19 2010 07:19 Saturnize wrote: No. ^
Haha I wish I had awesome dreams like that :/
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Whats with the C&C 4 post?
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yeah sc2 looks way better than that game haha
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On January 19 2010 07:19 Saturnize wrote: No.
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The only way I can see this working is if you research it on a per-building basis, and it only works on certain structures, say Lairs and Hives but not hatcherys. That way if you want to force your opponent to play expansion whack-a-mole, you'd have to upgrade your expansion to at least lair tech. Otherwise you're just limited to your main, which isn't that big of a deal anyway. Also, the burrowed Lair/Hive's relationship to creep would need some addressing.
I don't see any good reason to make any other structures burrowable. You would just burrow tech structures like Hydra Dens and never call them back up. Creep Tumors are already perma-burrowed and spine crawlers can move around.
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On January 19 2010 14:41 White_Raven wrote: Whats with the C&C 4 post?
C&C4 has burrowing buildings.
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I agree this is a really fun idea but i think the creep should stay when the building burrow you know there are there jut now what kind of buildings how many or where exactly they are placed, i'm just not sure how this could remain balanced between the three races. protoss and terran would need to have much faster access to detection.
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I like the idea myself. terran can move their buildings. from what i have heard toss can cloak theirs. why not have this for the "big" buildings. aka not the spine thing or the other one (air/ground defense). to balance it out the building pauses or cancels production or research. also you cant get minerals to a "burrowed" hatch.
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Burrowed buildings will not work for a very simple reason:
Starcrafts winning condition is to kill all buildings. So if one player would be able to hide his buildings in away that the other player needs detection to kill it, it would lead to a lot more draw games. (Which are very seldom at the moment)
For example P1 (Zerg) fast techs to have burrowed buildings, at the same time he harrases P2 (terran or toss) and kills all his workers... Now P2 still has a bunch of fighting units and fights off P1 and kills all his workers too... The game would end in a draw, because P2 has no way to find P1s last building (because of the lack of workers he can't get detection)...
The only way to overcome this would be a stupid mechanic like in WC3 where your last buildings show up in the sight of your enemy when you are not fighting and minig for a while...
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On February 15 2010 20:59 weltraumMonster wrote:
The only way to overcome this would be a stupid mechanic like in WC3 where your last buildings show up in the sight of your enemy when you are not fighting and minig for a while...
This is actually in the game, at least it was in the latest playable builds. If a player lost all his main buildings, he would be revealed to the opponent.
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If people did this to take hidden expansions they can't mine from them because drones can't move underground so I think this ability would be fine.
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On February 15 2010 23:02 ProoM wrote: Just no... agreed
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Alright first post, long time lurker here (No pun intended lol) and I was thinking about ideas for improving zerg, becasue Of all the races zerg seems to be the most similar to how they were in Starcraft Broodwar.
I would like to focus on the lurker
As it stands right now the zerg lurker in teir 3 is pretty much useless seeing as how every race will have detectors out by the time lurkers even make an appearance. The unit is very lackluster atm and needs something new to give it an advantage on the battlefield. My suggestion is to allow the lurker to be able to scale cliffs. Alright now before you freak out and say not every race needs to have a cliff scaling unit hear me out.
1. It would allow the lurker to become more mobile and and give it an ability to easily set up ambushes among all types of terrain. 2. Allow the lurker to play the role of base raider. An uncareful opponent could easily find their worker line wiped out or production buildings under attack. 3. Invoking fear into the hearts of their enemies. Come on creepy 6 legged spiders crawling up your natural expansion walls doesn't freak you out? Cliff scaling also fits the lurker model very well =D
Of course this ability would give lurkers a much different fighting style and role then in the original starcraft so tell me what you think.
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A Zerg Carrier that shoots infested Terrans.
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I don't think this is a good idea imo, it's not like blizzard want to make this game
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United States3824 Posts
Fourth tier tech for Zerg: The Undercity.
Boss
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I just thought of an upgrade for the roach. It would be tier 2.
It would give the roach a dark swarm aura thing (no wc3 comments plz) in a short radius around it which would encourage you to mix them with lings and hydras. It's original role was as a meatshield unit so this makes sense.
The actual buff would only block splash attacks, not regular attacks (opposite of swarm). So stuf like storm and tanks wouldn't be effective. The downside is that it wouldn't affect the roach (forces players to snipe roaches), their original purpose. You can see how with good positioning, a swarm of zerglings and roaches could waltz into a Templar defended base.
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