EPTWTF? lol
Zerg spies?
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Deleted User 50491
721 Posts
WTF? lol | ||
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:16 Kuo wrote: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/zerg-changeling-starcraft-ii/59287 WTF? lol lol wtf.. no I dont think so.. And also the commercial things are like 5 million years long. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
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Chodorkovskiy
Israel459 Posts
Sorry, couldn't resist... | ||
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KO_SharpMind
Canada277 Posts
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Deleted User 50491
721 Posts
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Ideas
United States8167 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:23 KO_SharpMind wrote: That's interesting but don't you think that the player would notice the change in his army size, even if it is very insignificant? Not to mention not being able to select those units and order them around... Could be cool for momentary scouting I suppose. Could be annoying as hell to deal with since (I assume) your units won't attack them unless they're ordered to. Perhaps detection reveals them? | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:19 Mobius wrote: lol wtf.. no I dont think so.. And also the commercial things are like 5 million years long. aka yesterday >.> Zerg Changeling Gameplay Posted: Nov 19, 2009 | ||
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Deleted User 50491
721 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:38 Meta wrote: Not to mention not being able to select those units and order them around... actually i think u can. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
"Oh HAI, i see some random units in the middle of nowhere it must be mine1!" "Oh HAI, i just lost a huge messy battle but how come he's not attacking my 3 marines?!" I just don't see how you can possibly use it. Seeing how bases are built on high-ground it'll be rediculously hard trying to sneak one in somehow | ||
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KO_SharpMind
Canada277 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:38 Meta wrote: Not to mention not being able to select those units and order them around... Could be cool for momentary scouting I suppose. Could be annoying as hell to deal with since (I assume) your units won't attack them unless they're ordered to. Perhaps detection reveals them? yea exactlly my point, maybe it maybe viable late game when scouting out for different expansions, i mean like chaging into an SCV and just hiding in the mineral line or something like that, but it would be only viable in late game since in the early game a player would easily notice why one of its gatherers isn't mining b/c of the automine system. It would probably only work in a very well saturated mineral line to boot. But it will be hard to tell until beta is released and we can see whether it is used efficiantly or just ignored. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
But surely it won't give vision to your opponent, and surely it won't attack your own units, which would make it very easy for your opponent to spot. Furthermore, I doubt it attacks your enemy while it's camouflaged, and why would you spend money on a unit that doesn't attack or cast spells? edit: nevermind, apparently they are free. An important question still needs an answer: is it single player only? | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9960/30106352.jpg) that pyro is a spy! | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:51 Meta wrote: But surely it won't give vision to your opponent, and surely it won't attack your own units, which would make it very easy for your opponent to spot. Furthermore, I doubt it attacks your enemy while it's camouflaged, and why would you spend money on a unit that doesn't attack or cast spells? edit: nevermind, apparently they are free. An important question still needs an answer: is it single player only? it simulates attacking (such as a hallu) but doesn't do any damage. so your opponenet has to spot it. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=91312 Quite old news... This is gonna be as useful as parasites in SC i guess | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
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Captain Mayhem
Sweden774 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19138 Posts
Gimmicky I guess but fun and nice  . | ||
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
It seems to be more about penetrating a front line than anything. If your opponent is not watching his own color for a stray dot that is moving where it shouldn't, you might end up missing a scout seeing everything you have. Also I'm curious if the speed of this thing adapts to the speed of your opponent's units. Like if it turns into a zergling would it suddenly have the speed upgrade, making it hard to catch? | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
On November 21 2009 04:07 onmach wrote: Couldn't you just tell it to follow one of the units in the group? Then the player would have to notice a single marine/zealot/zergling in a mass of 50+ units doesn't have a circle around it? But surely this thing has a short timer on it anyways, so who cares. It seems to be more about penetrating a front line than anything. If your opponent is not watching his own color for a stray dot that is moving where it shouldn't, you might end up missing a scout seeing everything you have. Also I'm curious if the speed of this thing adapts to the speed of your opponent's units. Like if it turns into a zergling would it suddenly have the speed upgrade, making it hard to catch? hmm interesting Also, i was wondering how you are supposed to detect it. I mean, the changeling passes by a turret and it does not see it. I agree with the comment made that scouting was ez as zerg. Its way easier in sc2 with the infestor and now they make a changeling, I do think it looks cool and all, just dont know how this will fit into multiplayer | ||
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MidKnight
Lithuania884 Posts
Seriously, this is as close to spy as you can get. We also have high yeld minerals/Salvage.. I mean, it's a replacement for Parasite, but why does it need to be THAT similar to spies? | ||
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
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Chodorkovskiy
Israel459 Posts
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
I could totally see an overseer dropping a changeling into my base, it morphing into a marine that pops out of my barrack, and then having a nice tour of my base. Sure I'll notice it and kill it eventually but I doubt I'll notice it fast enough, especially when I'm in a fight. Noone expects these to live forever or to go unnoticed for hours just standing next to your mineral lines, but with all the ridges in SC2 I can easily imagine one of these being spawned in or near your base and happily walking in. Heck, you could do it during a big attack onto the terran base! noone's going to focusfire a changeling when there's lurkers and lings to be killed. By the time the fight's over the changeling will have nicely scouted your tech. I don't think it's gamebreaking, but I don't think it's a bad ability by any means. | ||
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Icks
France186 Posts
On November 21 2009 04:00 Captain Mayhem wrote: Wonder what units it can change into? I mean, if the terran would roll forward with a mech army... Only Marine/Zelote/Zergling, depending on the opponent's race. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=16904200369&postId=169019692445&sid=3000#1 http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=15659711591&postId=158632500151&sid=3000#6 As the poster above me, i dont know if players will be that quick to notice one of their own unit into their base. We all make sure that our units do something because we create them and know where they're supposed to be. But if everything goes smoothly in the base, i dont know if a new idle unit coming from nowhere will be noticed that quick... in a corner, near minerals or smthing... Anyway, you can put it near a  -_- | ||
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horang3
United States261 Posts
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
I can't see how adding another thing you'd have to keep track of while multi-tasking can be "bad." It's just gonna be something else to separate pros and noobs. Heck, if pros can forget to do things like, i dunno, upgrade goon range, then they can miss little details like this sometimes too, and it'll be really exciting the few times that the changelings do survive. Can you imagine the announcers freaking out as the changeling goes unnoticed longer and longer? Mostly, it probably won't last, but the times it does... :D | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
Seems lame. | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
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andeh
United States904 Posts
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CheeC[h]
United States137 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:45 kerpal wrote: single player only? anyone know? | ||
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Icks
France186 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On November 21 2009 08:36 CheeC[h] wrote: mecha tangu, watch towers, now spies.... they should stop taking things from red alert 3. ra3 is epic fail RA3 was not a epic fail IMO. To me its by far the best multiplayer version of any CnC game. | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On November 21 2009 08:36 CheeC[h] wrote: mecha tangu, watch towers, now spies.... they should stop taking things from red alert 3. ra3 is epic fail You do know that starcraft 2 was announced before RA3, and that thus it was RA3 that was copying the viking and not starcraft copying the mecha tengu? | ||
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Halfpastnoob
United States191 Posts
On November 21 2009 07:50 andeh wrote: "oh cool i suddenly got 3 more marines from somewhere" lol | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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ERGO
United States168 Posts
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Ideas
United States8167 Posts
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
Would be kinda cool, zerg going for mnm  | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2594 Posts
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
On November 21 2009 03:13 evanthebouncy! wrote: that pyro is a spy! spah sappin' mah sc2 beta release : ( | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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Sentient66
United States651 Posts
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
Remember those damned terran/protoss gun line which scouting is impossible? Just suicide changings at random intervals at them and if you catch the player macro-ing, you'd be at least be able to see the army size (if you want to go for a break, for example) before it gets targeted as opposed to killed while it reaches siege tank range. Frankly, if you are having problems with opponents picking off your changings, it is a good time to "use multitask" and lets see them target fire a unit when being muta harassed at the third while being threatened with a flank from two groups of lings dancing just out of range. | ||
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AoN.Warrior-350-
United States147 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:49 KO_SharpMind wrote: yea exactlly my point, maybe it maybe viable late game when scouting out for different expansions, i mean like chaging into an SCV and just hiding in the mineral line or something like that, but it would be only viable in late game since in the early game a player would easily notice why one of its gatherers isn't mining b/c of the automine system. It would probably only work in a very well saturated mineral line to boot. But it will be hard to tell until beta is released and we can see whether it is used efficiantly or just ignored. could get it in and patrol it back and forth from min line to CC/Nexus.. be harder to notice | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
i wish they weren't blobs tho, blobs in video games are overused. | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
On November 21 2009 17:22 Railxp wrote: looooooooool at how they get crapped out onto the floor and up and start walking i wish they weren't blobs tho, blobs in video games are overused. ![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/v2zrix.gif) Really, though, how much time do you spend looking in your base with mbs and automine? I could see these going undetected for quite a while. | ||
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nofAcedAgent
United States952 Posts
On November 22 2009 05:49 mucker wrote: Really, though, how much time do you spend looking in your base with mbs and automine? I could see these going undetected for quite a while. Thats a pretty good point actually, with MBS and Automine.. I really dislike this idea. Its totally cheesy and has any one ever heard of Hallucinate? =/ why not enhance that power instead of taking entirley new directions. I always think back to one of the Blizzard guys quote "we dont wanna add stuff to sc "just because"" or something along those lines but that is literally all i see happening. This game just reeks of command and conquer more everyday. | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
Tell me you didn't go nuts when boxer lockdowned those carriers back then, or when you see a medic blinding an observer so a ghost can nuke an expo. Or spawn broodling/ensnare? I suppose none of those (other than parasite) are as gimmicky as changelings are but abilities that have situational uses like that enrich the game I find.. it's hardly going to turn starcraft into command and conquer | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 22 2009 09:41 Rucky wrote: the changeling is free. pros will find uses for them for sure. I mean when enemy army is attacking you, you can just have all your overseers produce 3 changelings each and then you'll have a massive amount of tanking units/walling unit/trapping unit/sim city hole clogger unit People need to stop saying the changeling is free, because that's not true. Is Hallucination free? The cost of Changeling is 1) the research cost, and 2) the cost of any overseers beyond what you need for basic detection. Additionally, if they give overseers any other abilities, those also factor into the cost of Changeling (just as casting Hallucination "costs" you one storm). | ||
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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emikochan
United Kingdom232 Posts
also: CHANGLINGUUUUU, I love korean commentators :p I can't see how it'd negatively effect gameplay, it's just an addition people need to deal with, distractions are always handy. Reduce their apm used on useful things and you can get the edge. Could end up being an apm sink in itself, but i doubt it, most players would just send them in for a quick suicide imo. Every ling you save (don't waste) is 25 mins afterall =p | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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emikochan
United Kingdom232 Posts
On November 22 2009 15:49 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: could be a good one-player only unit It'll definitely get more use in single-player. Infiltrating bases and cities with them will be interesting... | ||
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TracerBullet
Canada4 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:38 Meta wrote: Not to mention not being able to select those units and order them around... Could be cool for momentary scouting I suppose. Could be annoying as hell to deal with since (I assume) your units won't attack them unless they're ordered to. Perhaps detection reveals them? they walked past a turret though | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
-_- Pretty soon we'll have Timers til the mother ship is complete, nukes are completed and before they drop....Well....zerg...What do you got?....A base defense unit? =/ Sorry? Anyway...I think it should be scrapped...Or make it where it becomes the unit it kills...like it did on the lore page.... | ||
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ix
United Kingdom184 Posts
gimmicky things are only going to make this game more interesting Yep, because gimmicks worked out so well for all the other RTS games full of them... | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
I think it would be neat if they had a small attack of like 5 or 6 at a medium rate and at melee range, but decent hp. When they turn into a unit, they become selectable by both players who have "control" over them. Their attack while in rine/ling/lot form would do 0 damage, just like a hallucination. Detecting them will simply be as easy as selecting it individually where despite its form, it would show the blobby "zerg changeling." When selected with a group it would look like a rine/lot/ling. I just love the idea of a terran player grouping 10 marines and sending them out of his base with a medevac. Outside, he runs into a small army of lings. His marines fire desperately, but suddenly, 3 of them morph into changelings and start to attack from within his ranks! Changeling is kind of a fail unit and i hope something gets done about it. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
http://starcraft2.com/features/changeling.xml It's 6 pages of what starts out as marines securing a mining operation... Seriously you're going to make me read this? I read a few SC novels but it's just weird to want to read about a unit and have to go through a short story this long. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On November 23 2009 05:21 Knee_of_Justice wrote: Changeling is kind of a fail unit and i hope something gets done about it. It is not a unit, it is a spell. Just like starcraft broodling. On November 23 2009 03:25 ix wrote: Yep, because gimmicks worked out so well for all the other RTS games full of them... So, stuff like the starcraft nuke and infest cc terran made it into a bad game? Or the broodlings after brood, they could have removed them and people wouldn't notice. | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On November 23 2009 07:49 Klockan3 wrote: It is not a unit, it is a spell. Just like starcraft broodling. No its a unit. Broodlings have timed life and don't count towards your PSI. The changeling does not have timed life and counts towards your PSI. It's just a unit produced at another unit as oppose to being produced at a Building. Edit: fixed quote | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
1) The Changeling is very C&C and don't fit the SC universe (Not saying this is my belief, just trying to Echo common concerns). This point is perception based. Maybe it is true, maybe it's not. If it is, do you care? Does that outweigh what it can bring to SC2 strategically. 2) As the only unit in the game which is not auto-attacked by any means all you have to do as the user is produce it then issue a move command into the opponents base for very good scouting at little time investment. On the flip-side the opponent must invest proportionally more time into spotting and destroying them (even if they did not shapeshift and looked like blobs the whole time this would be true). So this unit has 2 effects. - Very easy/good scouting if your opponent does not spot it strolling in. - Wastes opponents time (which we all know is a very finite resource of its own) 3) There is a limit of how many units each race may have in SC2. This IS a unit and counts towards that limit. The question is, do we think this unit is worth the unit slot? Weigh up the pros and cons. - Do the Zerg really need this scout (even if it is very good at doing so)? Considering what scouting utility the other races have (scans/cliff climbing (which the Zerg lack)/observers, and the changed role of Overlords/Overseers) - Is the time sink to your opponent a strong enough 'attack' at them to make it a good (unique?) part of the Zerg arsenal? - Should this unit be scrapped so we can have another unit which fills a different role in its place? I have just tried to outline a few points about the Changeling to help people step back and look at the unit and what it does (or does not depending on your opinion) bring to the table. Try to look at it objectionably, then decide what you think it's fate should be. | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On November 23 2009 10:33 DeCoup wrote: 3) There is a limit of how many units each race may have in SC2. Is there? O_o | ||
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Abyzou
Sweden209 Posts
It's just too gimmicky and hard to balance for multiplayer imo. | ||
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
*peers around, looking for beta* | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Obviously, in real game play the changlings won't be used as blatantly as they were in gameplay vid. It'll be more subtle. In addition, changelings will be able to provide some quick scouting because it takes time for the opponent to spot the changeling and target it. Even if it's just a 5 second life span you'll get some info out. In late game, it's a lot harder to sneak in an overlord or drone or zergling to scout. That said, I think the changeling shouldnt' be a unit, but rather a spell...as it having no timed life could potentially be OP. I mean, if the changeling wasn't caught early I can see it easily staying there the whole game as tier 1 units are often produced the entire game (with exception of some TvZ games). Especially if it's positioned correctly and snuck in well. The hallucination is now a little different in that you can hallucinate any unit. In other words, you don't need to target a specific unit to hallucinate it. So you can basically fake a carrier rush when you're actually going arbiters, etc... It's easy to say such and such unit/ability is too gimicky and it sucks and blah blah blah when you haven't actually used it. Some of the SCBW units were considered gimicky and sucks and blah blah blah before some pro came up with a nice use for it or the metagame shifted, etc... | ||
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Grendor
United States70 Posts
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
As a result you can't really use them as a meat shield the way you can use hallucinations are meat shields. OMG, WE ALL MISSED SOMETHING These thing serves as perfect walling units. Your opponents can NOT get through them unless they spend time to focus fire. You can use them like medic walls, but there are some extra applications. Imagine a row of changelings blocking a zealot harass by camping a narrow choke. Now the protoss player will have to babysit the zealot army for like 20 seconds to break too kill the line one by one before they can get though, as opposed to A-move and forget about it for 20 seconds. This is NUTS! And I can totally see people sneaking some into the enemy choke to block their rally when some serious fighting breaks out. If opponent didn't see it, we can see an entire army gets blocked and may be GG right there if they lose a third or something because of it. HOLY SMOKES.....thats powerful shit if not spotted.... | ||
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Icks
France186 Posts
But looking at the latest videos, at this moment for instance: (and it happens twice in other games) It looks even more useless than pessismistic people thought :x | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On December 01 2009 09:22 Icks wrote: I thought it could be useful if it coud morph way before being in the LoS and range of the enemy unit. But looking at the latest videos, at this moment for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZWbRq73rI&feature=player_embedded#t=3m32 (and it happens twice in other games) It looks even more useless than pessismistic people thought :x It auto transforms into a marine when in range of one. Any other unit will kill it. The range t which it transforms is out of marine range but within marauder range. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Arguably SC is one of the more gimmicky RTS games out there. wut? | ||
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
On November 24 2009 22:26 SWPIGWANG wrote: OMG, WE ALL MISSED SOMETHING These thing serves as perfect walling units. Your opponents can NOT get through them unless they spend time to focus fire. You can use them like medic walls, but there are some extra applications. Imagine a row of changelings blocking a zealot harass by camping a narrow choke. Now the protoss player will have to babysit the zealot army for like 20 seconds to break too kill the line one by one before they can get though, as opposed to A-move and forget about it for 20 seconds. This is NUTS! And I can totally see people sneaking some into the enemy choke to block their rally when some serious fighting breaks out. If opponent didn't see it, we can see an entire army gets blocked and may be GG right there if they lose a third or something because of it. HOLY SMOKES.....thats powerful shit if not spotted.... Lol. The micro required to set this up would in no way justify the small inconvenience to the opponent. | ||
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On November 24 2009 22:26 SWPIGWANG wrote: OMG, WE ALL MISSED SOMETHING These thing serves as perfect walling units. Your opponents can NOT get through them unless they spend time to focus fire. You can use them like medic walls, but there are some extra applications. Imagine a row of changelings blocking a zealot harass by camping a narrow choke. Now the protoss player will have to babysit the zealot army for like 20 seconds to break too kill the line one by one before they can get though, as opposed to A-move and forget about it for 20 seconds. This is NUTS! And I can totally see people sneaking some into the enemy choke to block their rally when some serious fighting breaks out. If opponent didn't see it, we can see an entire army gets blocked and may be GG right there if they lose a third or something because of it. HOLY SMOKES.....thats powerful shit if not spotted.... It wouldn't work at pro levels though or even decent players, because no one would do anything long enough for changelings to interfere for too long. It's not like you won't see on the minimap that your units aren't moving, although it might be good in times when you're racing to get a better position and they give you the momentary advantage you need to secure the high ground or something. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
well he's got some truth in it when the standard strategy in a matchup is to glitch air units and threaten the opponent with them just because all your other options are inherently weaker, something is strange | ||
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