EPTmaybe not in ladder leagues, since the competitive players around here seem so adamant about having two-race randoms, but for casual players and leagues, i dont see why not. i go through periods where i play all three races but get tired of one for a time. while im willing to play random still, there are times when i would rather play either two and not the third
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Simple
United States801 Posts
maybe not in ladder leagues, since the competitive players around here seem so adamant about having two-race randoms, but for casual players and leagues, i dont see why not. i go through periods where i play all three races but get tired of one for a time. while im willing to play random still, there are times when i would rather play either two and not the third | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5449 Posts
Furthermore, some players may do it anyways and just leave if they get the 'bad' race. I'm sure we've all started a game and the player left the game asap. This is not only annoying and angering for both players but it wastes time and server bandwidth There won't be a 2 minute grace period, so it does give the other person a free win (and you a loss), so I doubt this will happen often. Certainly never come across it in War3. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On September 14 2009 23:34 lololol wrote: You should also be able to set the chance! Like: 24% of getting zerg 15% of getting toss 10% of getting terran 12% of getting random terran or protoss 19% of getting random protoss or zerg 11% of getting random zerg or terran and 8% of getting a random random! I hope you are joking, because this is retarded. (you could set T and P to 1% each and it'd still say random). Unless of course it reveals your race to the opponent before the match. On September 15 2009 07:04 D10 wrote: No... random is supposed to be random, you either play it all and face the consequences or play your two good races alternating every now and then. face it, random = coward. unless the race you got appears in the loading screen, its not cool. How is random cowardly? If anything it's the opposite because you show more courage playing 3x the matchups as most other players. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On September 15 2009 07:33 thopol wrote: I like your random idea. In its defense: Why the fuck not? Add all the easy to add extraneous features you can unless they start fucking up gameplay. exactly, if you're good you should be able to defeat weaker players regardless of their race. PS- I'm sure the top level players will all stick to one race anyways, so this probably won't even effect high level competitive play really. The only possible negative thing I can see from this is if there turns out to be a banned 2v2 team combo again (like ZZv ). It will make it easier to receive banned teams if one goes Z and other Z=50%. But if this is the case, they could possibly just ban random all together from team games. | ||
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PokePill
United States1048 Posts
On September 15 2009 07:47 CharlieMurphy wrote: exactly, if you're good you should be able to defeat weaker players regardless of their race. PS- I'm sure the top level players will all stick to one race anyways, so this probably won't even effect high level competitive play really. The only possible negative thing I can see from this is if there turns out to be a banned 2v2 team combo again (like ZZv ). It will make it easier to receive banned teams if one goes Z and other Z=50%. But if this is the case, they could possibly just ban random all together from team games. I disagree. Random will be rampant in SC2. The advantage offered by random in BW is enormous. The obvious reason no one abuses this advantage is because of the sheer scope and difficulty of being able to play all three races. This "difficulty" will obviously be reduced significantly in SC2, especially if the metagame continues to involve low econ gameplay, meaning more players will be able to achieve the same level of play they are capable with one race with all the others, and then being able to "abuse" the advantage of picking random. Which is of course making the other player use a suboptimal build order vs that specific race that they randomed. I haven't played any SC2 so I can't comment on build orders, so it depends on whether or not there are more optimal race-specific build orders used before being scouted as to the degree of advantage gained through random. And if you're going to "allow" players to choose more than one race for random, it would make more sense to just click the "random dice" button and then the other 3 races become highlighted and u select or deselect the random races with it requiring you to play at least 2 instead of silly "RANDOM ZERG TERRAN" and multiple buttons. | ||
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omnigol
United States166 Posts
On September 15 2009 07:47 CharlieMurphy wrote: exactly, if you're good you should be able to defeat weaker players regardless of their race. I would guess the build order "metagame" of certain match-ups is far too significant to give one player the knowledge of their opponents race, while not the other. I think it would be interesting if no one ever knew their opponents race and therefore people would have to use much safer standard builds. But in tournaments and serious competition people will quickly get to know eachother, and it wouldn't matter if the game revealed it or not, so the best thing is to just reveal it. This will make the competitive style (build orders based on match ups) the standard for standard games. Making the competitive scene more accessible. On September 14 2009 23:49 onmach wrote: Also, and this is purely philosophical, I like that players have race "identities". Jaedong is a zerg. If randomness confers too many benefits, such as no bad third race, many people will start playing random as a strategy. That would make it harder to follow a league and its players. Is jaedong going to beat flash? Well it depends on what race he happens to spawn that game. If he gets zerg he'll win for sure, but if he gets terran he might lose. Oh jaedong lost the finals because he spawned terran 3 out of 4 matches. Bad luck. I think this is also a very good reason to have matches reveal race once the match starts, so that it takes away randoms advantage and keeps it out of competitive matches. (much less make random even better by having random between two races, and not reveal race) | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On September 15 2009 08:45 PokePill wrote: I disagree. Random will be rampant in SC2. The advantage offered by random in BW is enormous. The obvious reason no one abuses this advantage is because of the sheer scope and difficulty of being able to play all three races. This "difficulty" will obviously be reduced significantly in SC2, especially if the metagame continues to involve low econ gameplay, meaning more players will be able to achieve the same level of play they are capable with one race with all the others, and then being able to "abuse" the advantage of picking random. Which is of course making the other player use a suboptimal build order vs that specific race that they randomed. I haven't played any SC2 so I can't comment on build orders, so it depends on whether or not there are more optimal race-specific build orders used before being scouted as to the degree of advantage gained through random. And if you're going to "allow" players to choose more than one race for random, it would make more sense to just click the "random dice" button and then the other 3 races become highlighted and u select or deselect the random races with it requiring you to play at least 2 instead of silly "RANDOM ZERG TERRAN" and multiple buttons. you brought up a good point about build orders being effected. But the fact is the are constantly changing (every week in alpha and probably will continue to change in beta). But from others and my experiences at blizzcon there is no other build for Z other than 13 pool/queen (you will surely have scouted opponent by then) . Well maybe 6pool but workers are so much more efficient fighters now that I think it sucks. Toss had the same old kind of builds, 1 or 2 gate is pretty standard and safe. FE Terran same stuff, Wall in or 1/2 rax builds. I'm sure there is an FE build possible. Anyways, you start with more workers. So this makes it a lot easier to scout as well, you scout earlier and the game moves along quicker. So your scouting on 2-3rd worker created is most likely going to see what they do or don't have in time to adjust accordingly before you have committed to one specific tech. Example for me would be bloodbath. Now I know this is a small map and it scouts relatively fast but with T versus random I like to wall vs protoss and semi wall versus terran. And versus zerg I do something completely different where I make bunker and buildings near CC. So, what I do when in the dark in make my barracks in between the two areas and lift accordingly when it's done. So scouting faster due to more workers faster = more time to adjust build and adapt. Random is less effective this way. And even more so by knowing that only 2 possible races need to be accounted for. | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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iamstevechow
3 Posts
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On September 15 2009 04:46 Krikkitone wrote: I like this idea, and the race of ALL opponents should either be revealed or concealed regardless of whether they pick 1,2, or 3 races No fucking way. That gives a massive advantage to players who choose one race. Those players already have the advantage of only having to know one race. Your suggestion is ridiculous. edit: I like the 2 race random option. I have suggested it myself before. | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
2nd idea id suggest its better to just put a checkbox for ingame chat or not if u want to see rep text. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On September 19 2009 05:54 ZeroCartin wrote: For the first point, i strongly disagree. Not many people play random, and random between 2 races? pff, i dont know if there are seriously so many people interested in this. 2nd idea id suggest its better to just put a checkbox for ingame chat or not if u want to see rep text. perhaps they don't random because of the reasons stated in the op.. And with 45% of the vote going to yes (as of today), what the hell are you talking about no one is interested? How is your second idea better?, that is worse lol And I totally agree with Mastermind | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
On September 14 2009 23:34 lololol wrote: You should also be able to set the chance! Like: 24% of getting zerg 15% of getting toss 10% of getting terran 12% of getting random terran or protoss 19% of getting random protoss or zerg 11% of getting random zerg or terran and 8% of getting a random random! I could see setting the percentages, but 4-7 are redundant and can be incorporated into the first 3. I mean what you wrote is exactly equal to: 24 + 5,5 + 9,5 + 8/3 = Zerg (41,67 %) 15 + 6 + 9,5 + 8/3 = Protoss (33,17 %) 10 + 6 + 5,5 + 8/3 = Terran (24,17 %) Edit: Besides it would be a huge advantage to the random player just set it to 99.99 for your favourite race and play with the BO advantage. | ||
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On September 19 2009 05:02 Mastermind wrote: No fucking way. That gives a massive advantage to players who choose one race. Those players already have the advantage of only having to know one race. Your suggestion is ridiculous. edit: I like the 2 race random option. I have suggested it myself before. What advantages does it give one race pickers? The fact that they only have to know one race... wel that's the idea, if you want to play competitively, you list the races that you are competent in. If you can't be competent in 3 races don't choose all 3. If you are competent in 2 then choose those 2 If you are competent in 1, then choose that 1. | ||
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flag
United States228 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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ActualSteve
United States627 Posts
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ELESSAR
Bulgaria173 Posts
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AeTheReal
United States108 Posts
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