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On March 14 2013 00:36 ProbeEtPylon wrote:
In my opinion, people should replay the SC1 campaings. Then they would love WoLs and HotSs campaign...
Haha the worst part of sc1 was the ai, but if you didn't abused it it was quiet fun. But Sc2 campaigns really set a new bar for campaigns in terms of game flow.
But it was really funny how in BW you could basically shut down a whole base by planting a single missile turret in a certain spot.
And here is the point, AIs are bad and they have to give you a chance to build up a base as well. It is really hard to create a difficult that matches each individual person. And someone playing games on a regular basis against other people, are not likely to fall to a computer.
It is also not new that stuff gets to easy for people. But as I already wrote in this thread, they found ways to adjust the difficult to their liking. And without using the evolutions and Kerrigan, HotS is giving me quiet a challenge (mostly because the resources are so spare) so far.
I think the only campaign mission in a Blizzard game that made me feel helpless was the peasant rebellion in warcraft 2. Ran out of Gold a few times there. But I still was a kid there.
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My thoughts on the campaign:
+ Show Spoiler [the good] +
Kerrigan as a hero unit was a lot of fun.
Evolutions were fun (I picked raptorling (green) and all the other evolutions were purple).
Early on in the campaign I had bigger difficulties than I had later on. Last few missions really lackluster in terms of challenge. WoL definitely harder, and a lot more fun.
I liked the concept of primal zerg.
Missions pretty fun themselves with varied objectives.
Narud dieing, Amon being ressurected.
Stukov is a major +.
Asshole Mengsk dead.
+ Show Spoiler [the bad] +I did not like the tech tree in the campaign. Some things like larva inject, overlord drops or nydus worm were NEVER available.
Cheesy dialogue and simplistic story.
No protoss offshoot mini storyline/campaign.
Story didn't advance much at all. Leaving all the plot and twists for LotV, a tall order.
No new info about Amon, hybrids, duran's origins etc.
Kerrigan not recognizing Narud as Duran.
Narud not transforming into Duran during the cinematic.
+ Show Spoiler [the ugly] +
Kerrigan's apparent lip surgery in HotW
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Not HOTS too easy
is because we played WOL 3 years
we already have da sc2 simple skill
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I recently played the WOL campaign on brutal again, and found it actually extremely easy. There are two challenging missions, and they are basically the same mission: defend waves of Zerg attacks. And depending how you do All-In, it can also be trivial (for example, if you get the mind control device, kill the nydus worms and mind control all the brood lords - Kerrigan can't even move when she attacks). I would probably have liked to see the last 2 HOTS missions a bit harder (for example, I echo the people who say that when a hero dies in campaign, on brutal at least, there should be no resurrection), but saying it was much easier than WOL forgets how easy WOL's campaign actually is for someone who has an idea of how to play SC2.
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Not through the whole campaign yet, but it seemed very easy so far. Sometimes I even have to check if I didn't accidently switch to a lower difficulty. And I let my units dance in some of the decisive battles or do weird/funny stuff (there's no campagin replay feature, isn't it?)
It's not that I am bored, the story is okish, and the difficulty is ok, that I also die from time to time (mostly because I like to leave my base unattended  )
I found only one thing challenging - the Belial-guy (forgot his name, the fat zerg in the jungle)
As I was playing diablo 3, I hated the bossfight vs Belial the most, and now they copied him to the sc2 campaign just to annoy me? Aren't rocks enough, Dustin, AREN'T THEY ENOUGH? DO YOU ENJOY KICKING A MAN LYING ON THE GROUND? just kidding, we are cool ♥
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The final Zerus mission was hard as FUCK. But other than that, yes, I felt it was pretty easy. It's also very possible that I'm just now horrible at the game anymore, I can't really tell. I think it's hard to discern at the moment, I'd like to hear what Blizzard has to say. At the very least, I personally REALLY enjoyed the story line.
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WOL was completely trivialized by marine/medic and viking/banshee/SV. Even on brutal, most missions you can just crank out reactored marine/medic and utterly wipe the floor with anything you see. HOTS has some overpowered stuff, and I've only finished about 60% of the campaign, but early missions can definitely be challenging with how weak your early game compositions are. Especially if you're going for the hard mode achievements, some of which are out of the way or are completely counter to other things you have to do in the campaign.
But yes, Kerrigan dying should be game over. The whole "your DNA is stored in the hatchery" is so BS anyway.
EDIT: I do think the difficulty is correct. Most of the people complaining about how "easy" the game is will be diamond+; in which case, ladder will be much more challenging and rewarding anyway. Having brutal achievements that are almost impossible to get, or making the vanilla difficulty higher, is simply a deterrent to those who play casually. When I started brood war, I had about 30 apm. We have to consider the newbies, too; RTS games are not easy to start out.
EDIT 2: I hope you don't have to do evolution missions on a second playthrough...they're ok a first time around to see the units, but a second one...
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^Yea exactly, most of us played SC2 quite a lot. I think the difficulty is scaled for new players.
The new achievements(hard difficulty) are much harder than those in WoL. So it's still challenging if you're doing those.
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I think the campaign was made easy because of the fact that there so many ways to spawn free units. Zerglings can be respawned for free. Ultralisks can revive. Roaches can make enemy units spawn mini roaches upon death. Swarm hosts, broodlords!
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On March 14 2013 02:21 Sandster wrote:
WOL was completely trivialized by marine/medic and viking/banshee/SV. Even on brutal, most missions you can just crank out reactored marine/medic and utterly wipe the floor with anything you see. HOTS has some overpowered stuff, and I've only finished about 60% of the campaign, but early missions can definitely be challenging with how weak your early game compositions are. Especially if you're going for the hard mode achievements, some of which are out of the way or are completely counter to other things you have to do in the campaign.
But yes, Kerrigan dying should be game over. The whole "your DNA is stored in the hatchery" is so BS anyway.
Um, you can do every single mission with roach/hydra, it's even easier than WoL campaign with bio. AI doesn't know how to use aoe, and the mutations (the roachling one, they are way up in target priority for AI) for roaches make it even more a-movy. If you then manage to hit the aoe heal of Kerrigan occasionally, you'll hardly lose any units whatsoever. Without even larva inject, it was really boring.
That, plus the mutation missions and the lack of any story and any character interaction (Stukov was ok, but came way too late to make a difference), really made the campaign a snoozefest compared to WoL.
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On March 14 2013 02:27 Andr3 wrote:
^Yea exactly, most of us played SC2 quite a lot. I think the difficulty is scaled for new players.
The new achievements(hard difficulty) are much harder than those in WoL. So it's still challenging if you're doing those.
Why? It's an expansion!
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On March 14 2013 02:21 Sandster wrote:
EDIT: I do think the difficulty is correct. Most of the people complaining about how "easy" the game is will be diamond+; in which case, ladder will be much more challenging and rewarding anyway. Having brutal achievements that are almost impossible to get, or making the vanilla difficulty higher, is simply a deterrent to those who play casually. When I started brood war, I had about 30 apm. We have to consider the newbies, too; RTS games are not easy to start out.
Yeah, as far as 'not easy to start out', there's a reason Blizzard added training for Matchmaking, three levels of it. They pull new people in with the casual campaign, and then see how many will actually play MP and stay.
They don't write the campaign for the progamer type because they figure they'll just go play Ladder anyway.
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Actually my biggest complaint was that, so far, the game doesn't play like zerg at all. There's no larva inject, and rarely a need (or even possibility) to expand.
And yeah the roachling mutation is kind of overpowered. But I've been having a harder time with this campaign than WOL, simply because I'm going for the Mastery achievements, and I'm not a zerg player.
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I just think that Kerrigan was balanced poorly. My skill set was the single-target blast (for large units), the short AoE dash (for small units), mend, and ability efficiency. She could practically solo maybe half the missions in the latter part of the game. Add in some roach/hydra and it's really hard to lose, even on brutal, going for every bonus objective and achievement (except the time ones).
Infestors are overpowered as well. Once you learn to manage their high enemy targeting priority, their permanent mind control is insanely good. In the last mission, my composition was roach/infestor/thor/battlecruiser.
The campaign was incredibly fun though, even if it was a bit on the easy side.
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On March 14 2013 02:34 Sandster wrote:
Actually my biggest complaint was that, so far, the game doesn't play like zerg at all. There's no larva inject, and rarely a need (or even possibility) to expand.
And yeah the roachling mutation is kind of overpowered. But I've been having a harder time with this campaign than WOL, simply because I'm going for the Mastery achievements, and I'm not a zerg player.
I remember there being a viable natural expansion in just about every mission, although at the very start it's often blocked by an easy-to-clear terran or protoss base.
I agree that it's not at all like multiplayer, where injecting is basically the #1 priority. Instead, just play it like Brood War zerg, adding on macro hatches whenever you have spare minerals. I was never short on larva.
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Is anyone else getting their achievement counter/bar stuck for some of Kerrigan's abilities? A few of them are permanently stuck at a number (twin-drone, Kinetic Blast kills, Leaping Death) and it's quite annoying and has not fixed itself, even starting a new campaign.
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On March 14 2013 02:21 Sandster wrote:
EDIT: I do think the difficulty is correct. Most of the people complaining about how "easy" the game is will be diamond+; in which case, ladder will be much more challenging and rewarding anyway. Having brutal achievements that are almost impossible to get, or making the vanilla difficulty higher, is simply a deterrent to those who play casually. When I started brood war, I had about 30 apm. We have to consider the newbies, too; RTS games are not easy to start out.
EDIT 2: I hope you don't have to do evolution missions on a second playthrough...they're ok a first time around to see the units, but a second one...
What's the problem with having Brutal being harder, aimed at being a challenge for, as you say, "diamond+"? People aren't saying 'why are there easy difficulties', more like 'why is 90% of the game trivial once you figure the key of the particular mission'.
Outside of the obvious reason 'Casual Billy won't enjoy it'. Design idea that can also be observed in the the storyline and the (lack of) depth of the actual fluff/setting of the game. Commercial taken to the extreme.
There are a few missions when you get hit on 2-3 fronts at the same time, those were pretty cool.
@EDIT 2: Yeah, the evolution missions are... maybe you're more tolerant than I am, but I can't understand whoever came up with that design. The first times ok, but having to go through the same random shit for every mutation is pretty silly.
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I just went through about 7 hours or so on Brutal and it seems much easier than WoL so far... Although the game play seems more fun. Playing as kerrican is a lot more like a small MMO kind of micro game.
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On March 14 2013 02:53 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 02:21 Sandster wrote:
EDIT: I do think the difficulty is correct. Most of the people complaining about how "easy" the game is will be diamond+; in which case, ladder will be much more challenging and rewarding anyway. Having brutal achievements that are almost impossible to get, or making the vanilla difficulty higher, is simply a deterrent to those who play casually. When I started brood war, I had about 30 apm. We have to consider the newbies, too; RTS games are not easy to start out.
EDIT 2: I hope you don't have to do evolution missions on a second playthrough...they're ok a first time around to see the units, but a second one... What's the problem with having Brutal being harder, aimed at being a challenge for, as you say, "diamond+"? People aren't saying 'why are there easy difficulties', more like 'why is 90% of the game trivial once you figure the key of the particular mission'. @EDIT 2: Yeah, the evolution missions are... maybe you're more tolerant than I am, but I can't understand whoever came up with that design. The first times ok, but having to go through the same random shit for every mutation is pretty silly.
Making a game for 2% of the game population is kind of dumb. Some of the Mastery achievements are pretty challenging. Only a few missions are hard, and it was the same way in WOL. Lots of games are like that, and that's why there are gamer-induced handicaps (e.g. no upgrades, or not using overpowered upgrades).
Some of those missions made me glad I used to play League of Legends, though. That primal zerg mission achievement for finishing in under 12 minutes was really fun.
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The Hots campaign is way easier than WoL. I just finished after a 10h session.
At WoL I had already played the beta for months and mechanically I was probably better than I am right since I haven't played since the initial season 2.
Some upgrade in WoL could make the campaign easily manageable but I didn't take planetary fortress or any tanks upgrade before getting to charr and there are multiple missions that I couldn't complete even after 10+ tries. I needed to plan pattern of attacks and time defenses for the AI attacks for multiple WoL missions(Welcome to the jungle, Utter darkness,
For HotS I just took whatever upgrades for units I found fun and just rolled most missions on the first attempt. Missions I failed was because I got cocky and went for optionnal objectives right at the start and got attacked while I was out of base but if you defend the first attack on your base you will complete the mission 99% of the time.
The last mission is clearly too easy and Kerrigan is WAY too strong on primal missions she just can't die.
HotS Brutal campaign too easy? Yes.
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EPT
