Honestly it really depends on the map, I've had several instances where the map is quite big like starstation...and basically they can keep you in your base for a LONG time with 3 reapers because stalkers can't kill them even WITH proper micro...unless you catch them off guard and they don't run away right the second they get hit...on maps with large ledges along your main...basically reapers are a huge pain in the ass...

sWs

United States409 Posts

February 14 2013 03:22 GMT

#22

On February 14 2013 07:59 Cloudshade wrote:
Honestly it really depends on the map, I've had several instances where the map is quite big like starstation...and basically they can keep you in your base for a LONG time with 3 reapers because stalkers can't kill them even WITH proper micro...unless you catch them off guard and they don't run away right the second they get hit...on maps with large ledges along your main...basically reapers are a huge pain in the ass...

Reapers are a giant pain in the ass, but the issue at hand is would you die to a 3 reaper rush opening sentry into stalker, and i can guarantee you you wont.

Limniscate

United States84 Posts

February 18 2013 03:57 GMT

#23

When are you getting warp gate and how would you deal with old-school 2/3 rax?

uh-oh

Hong Kong135 Posts

February 18 2013 05:58 GMT

#24

I am curious about the late mothership core, normally I like to get the core as soon as my nexus starts, so when the nexus is done the core will have energy for photon overcharge, the late core seems to make the protoss reliant on the 3 gate defense, which is a bigger investment than the msc, is it worth it?

MoonCricket

222 Posts

February 18 2013 06:41 GMT

#25

How is this build better than the current builds on ladder where all of the Protoss are skipping their Zealot for their 2nd Gas and going straight into 2 Chrone Boosted Stalkers and a MSC and pushing out immediately?

c0sm0naut

United States1229 Posts

February 18 2013 16:33 GMT

#26

On February 13 2013 09:23 Fencar wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 13 2013 09:11 TOdesKaMpF wrote:

On February 13 2013 08:43 Fencar wrote:

On February 13 2013 07:03 Fencar wrote:

On February 13 2013 06:49 TOdesKaMpF wrote:

On February 13 2013 06:43 Fencar wrote:

On February 13 2013 06:17 TOdesKaMpF wrote:

On February 13 2013 06:11 Fencar wrote:
What do you do if you get hit by a 3 Reaper rush? Assuming perfect execution the third Reaper finishes around 4:05-4:10, hitting at roughly 4:30-4:45 or so depending on the map.

Stalker comes out with my build around 5:00, the Zealot and sentry will be able to delay until then as long as they are placed in the mineral line as I described.

With the low DPS of the Sentry and high move speed of the Reaper compared to the Zealot, couldn't the Reapers just ignore the Zealot and Sentry while getting a bunch of probe kills?

Nope, the low DPS of the reaper would easily allow you to run away the injured probe while your zealot and sentry due dmg to the reaper. Also i really doubt three*** reapers could make it into my main before the stalker is out.

/Edit: Even if you lose 1-2 probes, three reapers is a high gas investment and it wouldn't be the end of the world. tbh widow mines, and hell-bats are much more threatening.

Well, 3 Reapers two-shot Probes and have 60 HP now, so despite the low DPS per cost (still slightly higher than a marine) they do have okay burst so I doubt you would be able to run away the damaged Probe.

By the time three reapers make it to your base the stalker would be out, and you would be fine..

I thought you said that the stalker finishes at 5:00? With 3.75 move speed I'm positive that with finishing around 4:10, the Reapers will be there 10-20 seconds before 5:00 on Cloud Kingdom, considering it takes around 45 seconds for a worker to go cross map.

+ Show Spoiler +

Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324475

Also I don't meant to be rude, and I apologize if I am.

its fine, i just dont think you realize that three reapers in your base for twenty-thirty in game seconds cant do much while being contested by a zealot, and a sentry.

Well, assuming rougly 1.3 in-game seconds between Reaper attacks (1.1 seconds is the c/d between attacks, the .2 or so is to account for avoiding Zealot hits) and perfect focus firing from both the sentry and the Reapers, that's three dead Probes before one Reaper has to retreat, then another two before the second Reaper has to retreat since Sentries take 10 seconds to kill one Reaper.

jesus, back the fuck off fencar and stop apologizing for playing terran
idk whats more painful to read, you kissing his ass constantly or you having no idea how much opening 3 reapers sets you behind in both econ and army size compared to normal tvp builds

User was warned for this post

Jasiwel

United States146 Posts

February 18 2013 18:48 GMT

#27

I'm a bit relieved to see I wasn't the only one to feel this way about current PvT, especially seeing it from a Grandmaster. Those Hellbats and drops.

DarkblueRH

United States144 Posts

February 19 2013 18:21 GMT

#28

Protoss in HoTS right now feels so strangled...

I had arrived at this same sort of skeleton opener (1gate expo zealot->sentry->expand->stalker->3gate->robo) in my own games as well. Likely the best build in terms of safety vs economy. The issue is that it's the *only* build which is safe yet economic in PvT.

I get the same sort of feeling from PvZ... If I want to be economical and I'm not opening with a Stargate in PvZ I'm just executing an obsolete build. Likewise vs Terran if I want to open economically and I'm not opening with a Robo then I'm just executing an obsolete build. ... In my eyes HoTS was supposed to open doors for all the races to have multiple paths of viability. Just feels like the more choices T and Z obtain, the less options P has to play an economic game. Taking a 2nd/3rd base has never been more difficult.

Is it so much to ask to be able to play Protoss without feeling as if all-in's or turtles are my only two options?

1v1Alpha

33 Posts

February 19 2013 18:35 GMT

#29

in pvz you can do 1 gate third base i like it more than stargate but yeah not much other stuff you can do cause how much better zerg midgame units are now. Honestly i think i might start void ray all inning every terran cause the stuff they can do now is absolotely ridiculous. Thank you blizzard for buffing the already stupid mines. Maybe you can double dps of marines next

_sQuare_

Germany5 Posts

February 20 2013 02:52 GMT

#30

Well, don't you think a gatewayscout would be helpful as well? In that case you could go for an earlier forge as well, because you're just able to scout mostly everything or at least if he expands or not. If he doesnt you ofc dont go for the forge, just in case. Reapers are actually never a problem, they are only a possibility to get a more detailed scout.
When i dont see him playing 1rax expand, i cut probes at around 22, build the nexus, add two gates and take my second gas. If he didnt go for an expansion you're safe against a 2rax attack, when you play it correctly. With the first hallucination you can get to know what he is playing, so that you can definitely decide what to do.

Did you try this playstyle as well? If yes, why did you change your style? Because i think chronoboosting probes is much more effective in terms of macro than going for faster units.

I mean.. how do you wanna break an ebay-block in time, so that it doesnt affect your timing? ^^

I am btw Masters in WoL and Diamond in HotS.

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